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Is it time for a fan led buy out?

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5 hours ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Look back over the years and see how all attempts to 'protest' have been drowned out and ridiculed by the Smith and Jones loyalists.

 

The pair of them will stay in position for as long as they choose and for as long as the stands are at least three quarters full. That is the sad situation for us Norwich fans so forget the banners and marches that will only entrench them further.

You are right of course BUT previous protests / demonstrations have never been aimed at them. The 'Worthy Out' campaign was exactly that, a movement to try and force The Cook to dismiss the manager. She eventually relented after 12 months and believe me she has always been furious that the campaign was proved correct. There were fan protests against Roeder but (again) the owners escaped without blame.

In fact there have been only two occasions (to my knowledge anyway) when the natives aimed public chants in the direction of anyone other than an incumbent manger or players. One was at The Valley when the final nail was screwed into our relegation to the third tier. Then the song was 'Sack the Board'. Doomcaster and Mumby were soon consigned to the dustbin of history whilst the Smiths sailed serenely on. The other was a home match in the December (I think) 2017 in the not particularly attractive first season under Farke. For the first time ever there were chants of 'We want Delia out'! Oh  how I savoured those few sweet seconds. Didn't last long unfortunately but there is an undercurrent of such feeling within the support base. Our problem is that there are still vast numbers of fans who whilst privately nodding their heads in agreement would not go anywhere near taking any action to try and oust the owners.

I disagree that public protest would not work, though, because we simply have no idea how the Smiths would react if thousands of fans really did 'have a go'. Smith is as obstinate as hell but has never, ever, faced the this type of personal campaign before. I actually think she would have a fit, launch a ferocious public onslaught against the natives and then just walk out.  

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1 minute ago, yellowrider120 said:

You are right of course BUT previous protests / demonstrations have never been aimed at them. The 'Worthy Out' campaign was exactly that, a movement to try and force The Cook to dismiss the manager. She eventually relented after 12 months and believe me she has always been furious that the campaign was proved correct. There were fan protests against Roeder but (again) the owners escaped without blame.

In fact there have been only two occasions (to my knowledge anyway) when the natives aimed public chants in the direction of anyone other than an incumbent manger or players. One was at The Valley when the final nail was screwed into our relegation to the third tier. Then the song was 'Sack the Board'. Doomcaster and Mumby were soon consigned to the dustbin of history whilst the Smiths sailed serenely on. The other was a home match in the December (I think) 2017 in the not particularly attractive first season under Farke. For the first time ever there were chants of 'We want Delia out'! Oh  how I savoured those few sweet seconds. Didn't last long unfortunately but there is an undercurrent of such feeling within the support base. Our problem is that there are still vast numbers of fans who whilst privately nodding their heads in agreement would not go anywhere near taking any action to try and oust the owners.

I disagree that public protest would not work, though, because we simply have no idea how the Smiths would react if thousands of fans really did 'have a go'. Smith is as obstinate as hell but has never, ever, faced the this type of personal campaign before. I actually think she would have a fit, launch a ferocious public onslaught against the natives and then just walk out.  

 

Norwich fans are massively divided over Smith and for many losing games is not a big deal any more. It's just a family day out for a lot of them and protesting against the UK's favourite cook is unthinkable.

 

Dissent is long overdue and if enough fans kicked off she might scapegoat Webber or the new manager before even thinking of going herself.

 

 

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Who are these fans on the family day out?

Just those who go with friends and family?

Are the Billy No Mates who sit on their own the ones who are protesting?

How do we spot them. If you didn't know us how would you tell me and yellowrider apart. 

BTW St Andrew's Hall 2009 was apparently about to the owners. Or so I was told....

 

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1 hour ago, Nora's Ghost said:

If ever I need your permission to protest or not to protest I'll let you know.

 

In the meantime.

I've seen some bizarre posts here but truly that is up there with the oddest of them. Far from trying to stop protests against the owners I am saying, as I have done for years, the opposite - that fans who want change should get organised.

Based on what has happened before in fraught times like these I very much doubt you and those who feel as you do will actually do anything, but that is hardly me thinking you need my permission. Just an honest assessment based on what in the past can be easily summarised as 'All mouth and no trousers.'

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20 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I keep reading about Delia just "going" or walking out.

How would that work? What do you think happens to the shares that they own?

I think we know what she would do with them Duncan.

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13 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Their estimate has been around £11m, for shares and loans over the years. The loans have all be paid back, and as far as I am aware they never charged any interest. That figure paid for shares looks a bit high to me, but I can't give a different one.

To the main point, I too think a full community ownership would be financially difficult to sustain. Some kind of half and half model, consisting of 'ordinary' fans and a set of - in football terms - moderately wealthy fans with a local connection might work.

Like a celebrity chef and publisher perhaps? The problem with fan owned clubs is.that they reach a ceiling, realise they can't get any further and then sell to someone with money to try to take them to "the next level"™, Swansea being a prime example....

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3 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Like a celebrity chef and publisher perhaps? The problem with fan owned clubs is.that they reach a ceiling, realise they can't get any further and then sell to someone with money to try to take them to "the next level"™, Swansea being a prime example....

Yes, but my notion is of a kind of halfway house between a purely fan-owned club (which I think was what Swansea was) and one purely owned by absurdly rich people.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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On previous threads I've concluded effectively the club is effectively community owned.  The position of a self funded club, with a broad shareholding base (albeit with 2 - or is that 3? - relatively poor majority shareholders) with no access to investment is as good a position as a community owned club can get in the world today.  If NCFC is to become an established top 17 club, something has to change at the top.

We know that the majority shareholders want to keep their shares in the family though, so the chance of a takeover is remote unless they felt comfortable with the purchasers and their aim for the Club. I've suggested the majority shareholders may be persuaded to sell their shareholding if a high profile individual they could trust, lead a focused group of local investors with access to increased investment in a takeover, potentially with the outgoing shareholder's retaining some form of residual investment / involvement.  

There are a few high profile Norwich fans who could perhaps do this. My initial suggestion of someone who might fit is Jake Humphreys, a Norwich fan with a strong media profile, great contacts and not a little personal fortune himself.  He has also voiced his concerns about the current situation. 

He is just a suggestion, you may have better suggestions, but I believe this strategy is the only real option for a near term change in the Club's fortunes. 

But whoever is the lead would need to believe they could take the fans with them. This would need a concerted effort by a group of "real" fans to convince them they have their support.

Does anyone on this forum feel similarly about such a strategy and that it can be successful?

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1 hour ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I keep reading about Delia just "going" or walking out.

How would that work? What do you think happens to the shares that they own?

It is a metaphor.

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10 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I keep reading about Delia just "going" or walking out.

How would that work? What do you think happens to the shares that they own?

I buy the shares and then use my famed mind control powers, plus my acquisition of Facebook, Twitter, Archant and Radio Norfolk, to suppress all protests against my regime.

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9 hours ago, shefcanary said:

On previous threads I've concluded effectively the club is effectively community owned.  The position of a self funded club, with a broad shareholding base (albeit with 2 - or is that 3? - relatively poor majority shareholders) with no access to investment is as good a position as a community owned club can get in the world today.  If NCFC is to become an established top 17 club, something has to change at the top.

We know that the majority shareholders want to keep their shares in the family though, so the chance of a takeover is remote unless they felt comfortable with the purchasers and their aim for the Club. I've suggested the majority shareholders may be persuaded to sell their shareholding if a high profile individual they could trust, lead a focused group of local investors with access to increased investment in a takeover, potentially with the outgoing shareholder's retaining some form of residual investment / involvement.  

There are a few high profile Norwich fans who could perhaps do this. My initial suggestion of someone who might fit is Jake Humphreys, a Norwich fan with a strong media profile, great contacts and not a little personal fortune himself.  He has also voiced his concerns about the current situation. 

He is just a suggestion, you may have better suggestions, but I believe this strategy is the only real option for a near term change in the Club's fortunes. 

But whoever is the lead would need to believe they could take the fans with them. This would need a concerted effort by a group of "real" fans to convince them they have their support.

Does anyone on this forum feel similarly about such a strategy and that it can be successful?

Is Jake wealthy enough to make sizeable equity investment to allow the self sustaining model to lift us to a regular EPL side?

In terms of decision making he might help, although I would be surprised if he fancies investing his life into running a football club.  I know we are all disgruntled currently but I do think the self funding model has given us a great ride, and long may it continue.  


I still trust the strategy, there are more large clubs below us than small clubs above us.  
 

This crop of players have done amazingly, and we have a new a set of young players coming through, Omobalidele, Rowe, Tzolis, Mumba, McCallam, Sargent, Adshead, Tomkinson, and Peters-Dickson - who will not all make it but watching them develop will be interesting.  There is then a core of fringe players who should be fighting to become the core of our side for the next 3-5 years Gunn, Dimi, and Dowell, and then finally our current senior players, Krul, Aarons, Hanley, Gibson, and Pukki, who all have a great attitude, but will be looking for certain things in their future careers, one last big move or some as they move into coaching and some (Aarons) who will hopefully continue to develop further.

I have three issues with the model, and approach.  It works because we are a stepping stone for players, so they need to see their future is the centre of the club objectives and decisions consequently they come here for the opportunities rather than the salary.  We should not regularly bring in players from other clubs on loan, it is dead money, secondly we create a sense of entitlement, both Cantwell and Emi believed the club owed them a move, and finally (this might be an unfair comment - as I have never seen a players contract) we should pay players a large proportion of their income in either shares or profit related pay, so they take a sizeable slice of the transfer fee when we sell them (or their colleagues) that way they are rewarded for by the same things as the club need and the players will keep each other aligned.

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On 29/12/2021 at 12:23, Greavsy said:

And their offspring too...... It's only fair 

And their offsprings  offspring, etc etc until the twelfth of never.

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14 hours ago, Nora's Ghost said:

It is a metaphor.

Is there a clarification  of how  this metaphor  translates into real life..... just asking for a pair of elderly friends who have no idea how to ' just go'. ..... drink more water is one way.

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2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Is there a clarification  of how  this metaphor  translates into real life..... just asking for a pair of elderly friends who have no idea how to ' just go'. ..... drink more water is one way.

Looks like Duncan Edwards has got a parrot.

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22 hours ago, shefcanary said:

On previous threads I've concluded effectively the club is effectively community owned.  The position of a self funded club, with a broad shareholding base (albeit with 2 - or is that 3? - relatively poor majority shareholders) with no access to investment is as good a position as a community owned club can get in the world today.  If NCFC is to become an established top 17 club, something has to change at the top.

We know that the majority shareholders want to keep their shares in the family though, so the chance of a takeover is remote unless they felt comfortable with the purchasers and their aim for the Club. I've suggested the majority shareholders may be persuaded to sell their shareholding if a high profile individual they could trust, lead a focused group of local investors with access to increased investment in a takeover, potentially with the outgoing shareholder's retaining some form of residual investment / involvement.  

There are a few high profile Norwich fans who could perhaps do this. My initial suggestion of someone who might fit is Jake Humphreys, a Norwich fan with a strong media profile, great contacts and not a little personal fortune himself.  He has also voiced his concerns about the current situation. 

He is just a suggestion, you may have better suggestions, but I believe this strategy is the only real option for a near term change in the Club's fortunes. 

But whoever is the lead would need to believe they could take the fans with them. This would need a concerted effort by a group of "real" fans to convince them they have their support.

Does anyone on this forum feel similarly about such a strategy and that it can be successful?

Perhaps Jake could team up with Hugh Jackman. Now Ryan Reynolds has a football club Hugh could seriously one up him if he bought Norwich and he is a self confessed fan with family ties to the area...

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2 hours ago, cornish sam said:

Perhaps Jake could team up with Hugh Jackman. Now Ryan Reynolds has a football club Hugh could seriously one up him if he bought Norwich and he is a self confessed fan with family ties to the area...

Is he rich enough? Or daft enough  to invest in a Footy Club?

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The good and the great she did for the club was a long time ago. What she does now she does for herself. 

Edited by Midlands Yellow

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A fan led buy out would be great if there is a fan or fans with about £200m to spare.

Otherwise, I don't see that it makes us any better off. We already have fans in charge of this football club. 

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9 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Is he rich enough? Or daft enough  to invest in a Footy Club?

Prolly about 200m between them, so probably no for both..

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7 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

A fan led buy out would be great if there is a fan or fans with about £200m to spare.

Otherwise, I don't see that it makes us any better off. We already have fans in charge of this football club. 

No need to worry, all this talk of ownership is just hot air. None of these so called fans will do anything about it.

As @PurpleCanary constantly points out there is nothing preventing a group of fans putting a consortium together and funding in place before making Smith & Jones an offer. Nothing apart from they are incapable, incompetant and unwilling.

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2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

No need to worry, all this talk of ownership is just hot air. None of these so called fans will do anything about it.

As @PurpleCanary constantly points out there is nothing preventing a group of fans putting a consortium together and funding in place before making Smith & Jones an offer. Nothing apart from they are incapable, incompetant and unwilling.

If there was such a group of wealthy fans, which there could well be for all we know, they're hardly likley to trumpet it all over this message board.

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2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

No need to worry, all this talk of ownership is just hot air. None of these so called fans will do anything about it.

As @PurpleCanary constantly points out there is nothing preventing a group of fans putting a consortium together and funding in place before making Smith & Jones an offer. Nothing apart from they are incapable, incompetant and unwilling.

Yeah, we've heard this all before. I remember the abuse I got from a Delia Out Facebook Group - anyone remember the plane they were determined to fly over Carrow Road? That has to be my number one favourite cringe-fest i've ever witnessed. 150 odd people talking big and they couldn't even raise £1 each to go towards it.

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We've been served up an immense treat ever since we escaped League 1 with Lambert, many promotions, Wembley, new club legends like Holt, Wes, Pukki, Emi. So much drama, late goals, wins against United and other big boys. It's been an amazing 12 years or so. I am very grateful to be a Norwich fan, it's never boring. But perhaps we should sell up, embrace huge financial risk for the sake of a couple seasons in the Prem that will ultimately end in relegation anyway (only 5 prem teams have never been relegated from the league) and years of financial hardship that would see us in the wilderness or worse. People on this board have painfully short-term memories, or perhaps they're just too young to remember. 

I'd love to see a Norwich fan-led attempt at a take over, it would end up being the next Netflix football documentary, obviously in the comedy section. 

 

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9 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

A fan led buy out would be great if there is a fan or fans with about £200m to spare.

Otherwise, I don't see that it makes us any better off. We already have fans in charge of this football club. 

That would be good for Year 1.

The problem is then where is the funding for year 2 to maintain our quest to be an established Premier League club?

There is a lot of bellyaching for "more money" from a fanbase that protested about the price of Cup tickets, decided that BK8 was the "wrong type" of money, called the bond to raise funds a "begging bowl", went apoplectic about the membership scheme etc

It always amazes me that we are so aggrieved by our pauper-like status, yet we're also always so annoyed by any attempt by the club to raise additional funds. We will staunchly NOT stick our hands in our own pocket to give the funds to the club we all "love and support" so dearly, yet also cling to the belief that there is a stupendously rich benefactor with no attachment to the club just itching to turn up and set fire to their personal fortune to sate our appetite to be Crystal Palace. Mental. 

Edited by Duncan Edwards
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On 29/12/2021 at 12:35, Duncan Edwards said:

We'd also need to look to generate more from exiled fans so memberships will have to go up for non-season ticket holders. It's only fair, we're all in this together, fans that just go away are generating nothing for the club and just paying into the coffers of our rivals so I reckon £500 for an away membership for non-ST holders seems fair. 

That’s right, £500 and still not be assured of a ticket if the present system is anything to go by. 
What planet are you on? When we are back in the Championship I’ll just be able to walk up to any away ticket office and walk in as I’ve always done! 
Relying upon fan-generated funding is not a recipe for sustainability in the Prem. Look at Bournemouth….

I’m exiled from my football team due to life choices. £500 a year and I’d be considering team choice 😆

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On 29/12/2021 at 23:40, shefcanary said:

On previous threads I've concluded effectively the club is effectively community owned.  The position of a self funded club, with a broad shareholding base (albeit with 2 - or is that 3? - relatively poor majority shareholders) with no access to investment is as good a position as a community owned club can get in the world today.  If NCFC is to become an established top 17 club, something has to change at the top.

We know that the majority shareholders want to keep their shares in the family though, so the chance of a takeover is remote unless they felt comfortable with the purchasers and their aim for the Club. I've suggested the majority shareholders may be persuaded to sell their shareholding if a high profile individual they could trust, lead a focused group of local investors with access to increased investment in a takeover, potentially with the outgoing shareholder's retaining some form of residual investment / involvement.  

There are a few high profile Norwich fans who could perhaps do this. My initial suggestion of someone who might fit is Jake Humphreys, a Norwich fan with a strong media profile, great contacts and not a little personal fortune himself.  He has also voiced his concerns about the current situation. 

He is just a suggestion, you may have better suggestions, but I believe this strategy is the only real option for a near term change in the Club's fortunes. 

But whoever is the lead would need to believe they could take the fans with them. This would need a concerted effort by a group of "real" fans to convince them they have their support.

Does anyone on this forum feel similarly about such a strategy and that it can be successful?

Shef, this came up in the discussion we had in October over my Financing the Future thread. I think it is a good idea, and one Smith and Jones would probably be happy with.

But it would not be a totally small-fan-owed community club in the way Swansea was for a while. And for me to be entirely in favour it would need to have a genuinely fan-elected supporter-director with a golden share veto on a few crucial heritage issues. I advocated this 12 or 13 years ago and it has now made its way into the Crouch Report on the future of football.

The other point to be stressed about such a scheme for Norwich City is the one I made back in October, using a quote from Donald Trump's psychologist niece  - 'Too much and never enough'. Unless and until there is some calamitous financial crash in football, with big clubs going to the wall, no such scheme would enable us to do anything in the Premier League but at best cling on by our fingernails.

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38 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

That’s right, £500 and still not be assured of a ticket if the present system is anything to go by. 
What planet are you on? When we are back in the Championship I’ll just be able to walk up to any away ticket office and walk in as I’ve always done! 
Relying upon fan-generated funding is not a recipe for sustainability in the Prem. Look at Bournemouth….

I’m exiled from my football team due to life choices. £500 a year and I’d be considering team choice 😆

As I suggested before (with tongue slightly in cheek), make it a contractual obligation when buying a season ticket that supporters must bequeath the Club a minimum of 20% of the value of their estate on their death.  That’d be a nice little earner, it wouldn’t impact fans (while they’re still alive) and would sit very well with the idea of us being a community club run for and by the supporters.

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3 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

As I suggested before (with tongue slightly in cheek), make it a contractual obligation when buying a season ticket that supporters must bequeath the Club a minimum of 20% of the value of their estate on their death.  That’d be a nice little earner, it wouldn’t impact fans (while they’re still alive) and would sit very well with the idea of us being a community club run for and by the supporters.

Agreed - but seriously the only thing that keeps you in the Prem is some stinking rich Investors possibly of dubious origin. 
With our ‘holier than thou’ vocal fan base, I doubt even if the Pope waded in with a half a billion we’d have a surge of ‘self righteousness’ quoting Crusades and Spanish Inquisition 

Here’s to 2022 🍺

🦊

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