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Iwans Big Toe

Is it time for a fan led buy out?

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It's only just occurred to me #NCFC's sensible 'self-funding model' where the owners put little or no money in (£2M in 25 years) is not all that different from one of those fan buy-out clubs (eg. Exeter City) who put no money in & live strictly within their means too. Mm...

— Chris Sadler (@CJS_Writer) December 28, 2021

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7 hours ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

It's only just occurred to me #NCFC's sensible 'self-funding model' where the owners put little or no money in (£2M in 25 years) is not all that different from one of those fan buy-out clubs (eg. Exeter City) who put no money in & live strictly within their means too. Mm...

— Chris Sadler (@CJS_Writer) December 28, 2021

When did they put in £2m? I'm sure the writer is correct but I don't remember that. Unless it was what they paid for a seat on the board when Chase was still here. 

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5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Don't think it would be feasible at this level of the game personally, and we'll still need to be "self funded".

 

I think this is about right. Also adding the difficulty on deciding how the club is run.

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52 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

When did they put in £2m? I'm sure the writer is correct but I don't remember that. Unless it was what they paid for a seat on the board when Chase was still here. 

I'm sure she's gone on record of saying she's put in personally much more than that.

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I guess the way to greater fan power would be growing the supporters trust, as in the Luton model. I agree that full community ownership would be super difficult at championship level (let alone premier)

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1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

When did they put in £2m? I'm sure the writer is correct but I don't remember that. Unless it was what they paid for a seat on the board when Chase was still here. 

They’ve put in about £8m for their shares plus written off some interest on loans.

 

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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

They’ve put in about £8m for their shares plus written off some interest on loans.

 

Their estimate has been around £11m, for shares and loans over the years. The loans have all be paid back, and as far as I am aware they never charged any interest. That figure paid for shares looks a bit high to me, but I can't give a different one.

To the main point, I too think a full community ownership would be financially difficult to sustain. Some kind of half and half model, consisting of 'ordinary' fans and a set of - in football terms - moderately wealthy fans with a local connection might work.

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1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Their estimate has been around £11m, for shares and loans over the years. The loans have all be paid back, and as far as I am aware they never charged any interest. That figure paid for shares looks a bit high to me, but I can't give a different one.

To the main point, I too think a full community ownership would be financially difficult to sustain. Some kind of half and half model, consisting of 'ordinary' fans and a set of - in football terms - moderately wealthy fans with a local connection might work.

I can’t find the thread right now Purple but I’m sure it’s been worked out from the accounts that’s it’s between £6m and £8m depending on how much they paid Watling for the initial shareholding. Quite a bargain when you look at the value now. Of course they’ve always said they don’t expect to profit from it. 

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3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

When did they put in £2m? I'm sure the writer is correct but I don't remember that. Unless it was what they paid for a seat on the board when Chase was still here. 

Point of order but D&M were invited to join the board by Geoffrey Watling and Martin Armstrong when Chase had been ousted. This was the same time as Michael Foulger joined.

Edited by TIL 1010

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2 hours ago, Green Canary said:

I guess the way to greater fan power would be growing the supporters trust, as in the Luton model. I agree that full community ownership would be super difficult at championship level (let alone premier)

Rather than focusing on supporter representation through increasing their share-holding, I get the impression that the Canaries Trust has become rather too political of late and some supporters might not feel that that’s a direction of travel they want to go down.

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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Their estimate has been around £11m, for shares and loans over the years. The loans have all be paid back, and as far as I am aware they never charged any interest. That figure paid for shares looks a bit high to me, but I can't give a different one.

To the main point, I too think a full community ownership would be financially difficult to sustain. Some kind of half and half model, consisting of 'ordinary' fans and a set of - in football terms - moderately wealthy fans with a local connection might work.

We had this debate recently and the proven figure was around £8 million though there are some grey areas and foregone interest is of course a fair point in a true economic context.

Second paragraph looks interesting. A small group of wealthy fan investors would be required to form an effective Board.

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My major concern is that when Michael & Delia do decide to step down Nephew Tom will just continue in the same manner as they have.

Unfortunately, the days when a small club like Norwich could compete with the ‘big boys’ in the Premier League went about 25 years ago.

Unless we get some major investment (and yes I know that can go t1ts up) I fear that in a few years we will be in the same position as that lot down the road.

This year has been worse than 2 years ago, mainly because we currently have to go to and from the ground to watch us get stuffed like the turkeys we are.

I wonder how many Season Ticket holders won’t renew this time around? 
After attending matches and supporting my team for over 50 years I may very well be one of them and although it really saddens me to say that I’m just fed up with going to games with no hope and expectation and the resigned feeling after the game.

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Look back over the years and see how all attempts to 'protest' have been drowned out and ridiculed by the Smith and Jones loyalists.

 

The pair of them will stay in position for as long as they choose and for as long as the stands are at least three quarters full. That is the sad situation for us Norwich fans so forget the banners and marches that will only entrench them further.

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5 minutes ago, pearsos said:

My major concern is that when Michael & Delia do decide to step down Nephew Tom will just continue in the same manner as they have.

Unfortunately, the days when a small club like Norwich could compete with the ‘big boys’ in the Premier League went about 25 years ago.

Unless we get some major investment (and yes I know that can go t1ts up) I fear that in a few years we will be in the same position as that lot down the road.

This year has been worse than 2 years ago, mainly because we currently have to go to and from the ground to watch us get stuffed like the turkeys we are.

I wonder how many Season Ticket holders won’t renew this time around? 
After attending matches and supporting my team for over 50 years I may very well be one of them and although it really saddens me to say that I’m just fed up with going to games with no hope and expectation and the resigned feeling after the game.

Come on, you did it through the dim, dark days in the 80's and 90's and you can do it again now...

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1 minute ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

Come on, you did it through the dim, dark days in the 80's and 90's and you can do it again now...

I really really think that the only way is DOWN and I really don’t want to see that. Sorry.

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20 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Rather than focusing on supporter representation through increasing their share-holding, I get the impression that the Canaries Trust has become rather too political of late and some supporters might not feel that that’s a direction of travel they want to go down.

The Canaries Trust have taken 20 years to accumulate just over 3,000 shares by purchases and by supporters donating some so good luck with the purchase of 327,000 owned by D&M which is 53% of the shares in circulation.

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9 minutes ago, Nora's Ghost said:

Look back over the years and see how all attempts to 'protest' have been drowned out and ridiculed by the Smith and Jones loyalists.

 

The pair of them will stay in position for as long as they choose and for as long as the stands are at least three quarters full. That is the sad situation for us Norwich fans so forget the banners and marches that will only entrench them further.

It seems to me that nobody is stopping anyone from having protests except the potential protestors own gumption. Get up and make a noise and get as many like-minded individuals on your side.

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8 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

The Canaries Trust have taken 20 years to accumulate just over 3,000 shares by purchases and by supporters donating some so good luck with the purchase of 327,000 owned by D&M which is 53% of the shares in circulation.

Which is probably just as well because I’m not sure I’d particularly want the Canaries Trust having a seat at the boardroom table.

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7 minutes ago, Herman said:

It seems to me that nobody is stopping anyone from having protests except the potential protestors own gumption. Get up and make a noise and get as many like-minded individuals on your side.

No one will bother as it has never worked in the past. General lethagy is the Norwich fan's worst enemy and right now the 'contents' still far outweigh the 'not contents'.

 

Smith and Jones are safe in their castle and they know it.

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4 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

When did they put in £2m? I'm sure the writer is correct but I don't remember that. Unless it was what they paid for a seat on the board when Chase was still here. 

It was a long time ago but so far as memory serves it was a loan which at some point was repaid, possibly in the form of shares. 

Edited by benchwarmer

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12 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

The Canaries Trust have taken 20 years to accumulate just over 3,000 shares by purchases and by supporters donating some so good luck with the purchase of 327,000 owned by D&M which is 53% of the shares in circulation.

So if we use the £25 a share figure that the Associate Directors paid back in the day, that means we'd need to raise £8,175,000 to buy the shares. If we said there were circa 40,000 fans willing to pitch in, that's only £204.38 each!

Then to establish us in the top flight, we'll probably need to invest (burn) somewhere around £50m per annum on players/wages and that's only £1,250 each every year...obviously as the wage bill increases, we'll each need to put in more but it'll be worth it. 

I can see this catching on! 

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4 minutes ago, Nora's Ghost said:

No one will bother as it has never worked in the past. General lethagy is the Norwich fan's worst enemy and right now the 'contents' still far outweigh the 'not contents'.

 

Smith and Jones are safe in their castle and they know it.

You obviously weren't around in the Chase and Worthington days then ?

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1 minute ago, Duncan Edwards said:

So if we use the £25 a share figure that the Associate Directors paid back in the day, that means we'd need to raise £8,175,000 to buy the shares. If we said there were circa 40,000 fans willing to pitch in, that's only £204.38 each!

Then to establish us in the top flight, we'll probably need to invest (burn) somewhere around £50m per annum on players/wages and that's only £1,250 each every year...obviously as the wage bill increases, we'll each need to put in more but it'll be worth it. 

I can see this catching on! 

The first to target should be those with 1,000 shares to stump up as they can obviously afford it.

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1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

You obviously weren't around in the Chase and Worthington days then ?

May I be the first to mention St Andrew's Hall @TIL 1010 😂 

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Just now, TIL 1010 said:

The first to target should be those with 1,000 shares to stump up as they can obviously afford it.

And their offspring too...... It's only fair 

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