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Branston Pickle

Missing Players/Mitigating circumstances

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41 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

This place can be pretty ridiculous after a defeat, full of stupid comments and throwing around of toys.  I dare say it will be the same tonight. 

In among that, I thought it fair to comment on the mitigating circumstances - not to diminish from undoubted poor performances but to maybe discuss things on a more ‘grown up’ manner.

We are clearly horribly low on confidence - from a morale boosting performance v Man U that deserved far more than it got, but then we had even more injuries and covid to contend with; Villa ought to have probably been postponed. 

We currently have more starting XI players out than I can ever remember, even last season, most of whom would have surely started today under normal circumstances - Krul, Aarons, Andrew O, Hanley, Kabak, Normann, Cantwell, Rashica, Rupp, Pukki; also Zimbo; now it looks like Dimi is also injured.  That’s 12, and some of those playing are probably not fully fit/carrying injuries.

I have to say that level of players missing would see any side struggle and make it hard to be perhaps as competitive as they should be.

And Palace were missing Saha , Gallagher and Eze  very key players to them , and they didn’t need to get out of 2nd gear after the break …… we simply are not good enough and player recruitment was pizz poor .

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41 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

This place can be pretty ridiculous after a defeat, full of stupid comments and throwing around of toys.  I dare say it will be the same tonight. 

In among that, I thought it fair to comment on the mitigating circumstances - not to diminish from undoubted poor performances but to maybe discuss things on a more ‘grown up’ manner.

We are clearly horribly low on confidence - from a morale boosting performance v Man U that deserved far more than it got, but then we had even more injuries and covid to contend with; Villa ought to have probably been postponed. 

We currently have more starting XI players out than I can ever remember, even last season, most of whom would have surely started today under normal circumstances - Krul, Aarons, Andrew O, Hanley, Kabak, Normann, Cantwell, Rashica, Rupp, Pukki; also Zimbo; now it looks like Dimi is also injured.  That’s 12, and some of those playing are probably not fully fit/carrying injuries.

I have to say that level of players missing would see any side struggle and make it hard to be perhaps as competitive as they should be.

Here we go. Jump to the defence of the useless lot we call a team. All teams have had players out. We aren't the only ones in this league to have injuries and covid. All the others get on with it, fight with grit and determination to get points or impress the manager for the future of their career. Wish you'd take off your yellow and green glasses and just admit we aren't good enough. We really don't deserve to be in the prem either. I said up until last month I thought we had a decent chance but over the last few weeks we've been woeful. New manager bounce lasted 2 games then back to ****

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We are where we are. That's it. 

We can analyse and criticise all we like but it won't do our players any good. 

In my opinion: Placheta, Gilmour and Idah showed heart. Byram looked more of an EPL player than the rest of the team and was my motm and young Rowe looked really lively.

But for too many players the confidence and belief, if there was any, lasted as long as the penalty went in. 

There is still a long season ahead so something has to change for these players or else they will be like whipped dogs. 

Slagging them off will only make matters worse. They have to find it from within themselves to go and go again. Any dissent within the camp MUST be eradicated and leaders must come forward. I thought Byram showed leadership, we need more and we need vocal. Perhaps we need to sign a big character or bring one back in, like Hugill because it isn't now about ability it is about mentality. 

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49 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

This place can be pretty ridiculous after a defeat, full of stupid comments and throwing around of toys.  I dare say it will be the same tonight. 

In among that, I thought it fair to comment on the mitigating circumstances - not to diminish from undoubted poor performances but to maybe discuss things on a more ‘grown up’ manner.

We are clearly horribly low on confidence - from a morale boosting performance v Man U that deserved far more than it got, but then we had even more injuries and covid to contend with; Villa ought to have probably been postponed. 

We currently have more starting XI players out than I can ever remember, even last season, most of whom would have surely started today under normal circumstances - Krul, Aarons, Andrew O, Hanley, Kabak, Normann, Cantwell, Rashica, Rupp, Pukki; also Zimbo; now it looks like Dimi is also injured.  That’s 12, and some of those playing are probably not fully fit/carrying injuries.

I have to say that level of players missing would see any side struggle and make it hard to be perhaps as competitive as they should be.

It’s the accumulation of defeats and a goal difference that’s mind blowing. Norwich fans are very patient but enough is enough. 

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So Palace, with an already far stronger squad missing 3 players = us missing 9-10?  That’s very odd maths. 

My point does seem to be missing to many - it isn’t being happy clappy.  We may well have lost today whatever XI we put out - Palace are now (sadly) a seasoned PL side - but it would have been far more competitive.  With so many of our better players out, we were really up against it: for example in defence we had a keeper low on confidence with a scratch four in front of him.  To not even acknowledge this does seem unfair.

Oddly, I recall defending Farke big-time when others were desperate for him to be booted last season (and two seasons before that). I guess I’m just an advocate for them to be given time.

Edited by Branston Pickle
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9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

So Palace, with an already far stronger squad missing 3 players = us missing 9-10?  That’s very odd maths. 

My point does seem to be missing to many - it isn’t being happy clappy.  We may well have lost today whatever XI we put out - Palace are now (sadly) a seasoned PL side - but it would have been far more competitive.  With so many of our better players out, we were really up against it: for example in defence we had a keeper low on confidence with a scratch four in front of him.  To not even acknowledge this does seem unfair.

Oddly, I recall defending Farke big-time when others were desperate for him to be booted last season (and two seasons before that). I guess I’m just an advocate for them to be given time.

That palace are now a seasoned premiership side - and we are not- given that we were promoted together and similar sized a few years ago says it all. They refreshed the ownership and progressed. We didn’t and stagnated 

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5 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

So Palace, with an already far stronger squad missing 3 players = is missing 9-10?  That’s very odd maths. 

My point does seem to be missing to many - it isn’t being happy clappy.  We may well have lost today whatever XI we put out - Palace are now (sadly) a seasoned PL side - but it would have been far more competitive.  With so many of our better players out, we were really up against it: for example in defence we had a keeper low on confidence with a scratch four in front of him.  To not even acknowledge this does seem unfair.

The back four was scratch because he dropped Kabak. Why is the player here if he is only scratch? Sam Byram would be a starter for us surely? Gibson cost £8M and Dimi not much less.

Better players out. AO, Cantwell and Rupp are hardly picked. We paid £5M for Angus Gunn. Normann is on loan like Kabak but admittedly here for a season.

Palace had won four games all season and scored 23 goals in 18 games. And were missing Zaha, Eze and Gallacher.

And they made us look mugs.

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Scratch as in never played together; Byram playing well before he was due to.  Kabak wasn’t dropped, we were told before Arsenal he wouldn’t be able to play 2 in 2 days.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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24 minutes ago, Kingston Yellow said:

And you talk about posters making “stupid comments”

Thanks for confirming! You clearly don’t get what I’m saying but feel incapable of letting it go…

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2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Scratch as in never played together; Byram playing well before he was due to.  Kabak wasn’t dropped, we were told before Arsenal he wouldn’t be able to play 2 in 2 days.

So we have a player who may have had to come on in the first minute but he wouldn't be able to play but we would risk him rather than put Byram at CB and play three at the back?

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

So we have a player who may have had to come on in the first minute but he wouldn't be able to play but we would risk him rather than put Byram at CB and play three at the back?

Ask Smith, not me - just relaying what he said on Christmas Eve!!!

I guess he could have played a while at a push.  We are down to the bare bones a bit - which is kind of what I was getting at.  Probably only ‘just’ the right side of being ok to play todays game.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

This place can be pretty ridiculous after a defeat, full of stupid comments and throwing around of toys.  I dare say it will be the same tonight. 

In among that, I thought it fair to comment on the mitigating circumstances - not to diminish from undoubted poor performances but to maybe discuss things on a more ‘grown up’ manner.

We are clearly horribly low on confidence - from a morale boosting performance v Man U that deserved far more than it got, but then we had even more injuries and covid to contend with; Villa ought to have probably been postponed. 

We currently have more starting XI players out than I can ever remember, even last season, most of whom would have surely started today under normal circumstances - Krul, Aarons, Andrew O, Hanley, Kabak, Normann, Cantwell, Rashica, Rupp, Pukki; also Zimbo; now it looks like Dimi is also injured.  That’s 12, and some of those playing are probably not fully fit/carrying injuries.

I have to say that level of players missing would see any side struggle and make it hard to be perhaps as competitive as they should be.

Well done for giving an alternate view Branston.

I think the problem tonight is that this is yet another poor performance, whatever the mitigation.  I am also of the view that even with our missing players we would have been well beaten. 

Our squad is so poor, losing players makes little difference. 

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It’s very unfortunate circumstances but I’ve seen nothing this season to suggest we would get anything against a physically strong palace team today irrelevant of what team we had put out 

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I accept we’re missing quite a few players but I don’t think any of them are real good enough either and would make a jot of difference to how bad we are(maybe Norman, Krul and Pukki).

what puzzles me is how either Farke or Smith can expect any team with a midfield axis of Gilmour and McLean to win games. The continual playing of these two and expecting different results is complete madness. I’d honestly give Dimi, Williams, Kabak, Byram, Sorensen or a youth player a chance in centre midfield ahead of either of them.

injuries/illness are an issue but fact is we are an embarrassment 

Edited by rock bus

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1 hour ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I don’t want to hear it. We are simply not good enough to compete at this level. 

With our second and third choice players. You may not want to hear it but it’s true.

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1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

****ing excuses chap, I'm sick of it. Palace had their best 3 (at least) players missing. 

The lethargy from many supporters of this club make me sick. 

The atmosphere MUST now get toxic, Delia HAS to be made aware in no uncertain terms that she is not wanted here. 

Will that happen? No our fans are too apathetic and quite frankly not passionate enough!!! 

That is your opinion. You have a right to it but you need to accept that others see it differently. It’s not just about YOU.

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I do think that the excessive number of players missing has undoubtedly derailed any chance of survival. Its unreasonable to believe any team, especially one without unlimited resources, can sustain levels of performance without the key players. Let's see how Newcastle get on without their 2 stars. 

There is some middle ground here. You can be angry about some of the abject displays but there is a wider context. 

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Agree with Branston on the whole here. Yes, there is definitely a cogent argument that despite widespread investment across the team there's not much improvement in the depth we have. However, we have certainly suffered more than most clubs re. injuries and infections. When you throw in the mental impact of a poor start, players coming back to play in various states of not being fully fit (Gilmour with a temperature, remember? Not to mention we already knew Kabak was not going to be right for playing two full games in two) and then our main goalie's out with Covid. Chuck in a defensive midfielder giving it a manful second go at centre-half and a right-back who's hardly seen the turf in two years due to injury and there's no way that team is going to be as robust under pressure or indeed as confident in possession as is needed.

What we saw today, sadly, was a haunted patchwork side devoid of confidence shredded down into its constituent parts. 

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7 minutes ago, Bluefloyd said:

I do think that the excessive number of players missing has undoubtedly derailed any chance of survival. Its unreasonable to believe any team, especially one without unlimited resources, can sustain levels of performance without the key players. Let's see how Newcastle get on without their 2 stars. 

There is some middle ground here. You can be angry about some of the abject displays but there is a wider context. 

Yes the wider context is the abject lack of investment and quality in the first 1st team which the owners don't seem capable of changing. Until they put the club up for sale we will not know who is there and able to move us on...  we are an utter joke to fans of other clubs.

Its time to admit that being competitive can not be done on a pitiful lack of resources & this 5 year plan nonsense was doomed to failure. It's like we are trying to compete in F1 using mini parts. Never been done and won't ever be done. 

Edited by Kenny Foggo

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1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Yes the wider context is the abject lack of investment and quality in the first 1st team which the owners don't seem capable of changing. Until the put the club up for sale we will not know who is there and able to move us on...  we are an utter joke to fans of other clubs.

Not really. The recruitment may not have been good enough, or worked out, but the money was spent. Again, there is a wider context to budgets given the uncertainty around finances for all businesses, which includes football clubs, in 2020. 

What has been proven is that the additional players were necessary cover. The disappointment that they have been inadequate is something I share. 

Most fans of other clubs that I speak to don't think we're a joke. That's just the warped opinion of some of our own 'fans'. 

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14 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Agree with Branston on the whole here. Yes, there is definitely a cogent argument that despite widespread investment across the team there's not much improvement in the depth we have. However, we have certainly suffered more than most clubs re. injuries and infections. When you throw in the mental impact of a poor start, players coming back to play in various states of not being fully fit (Gilmour with a temperature, remember? Not to mention we already knew Kabak was not going to be right for playing two full games in two) and then our main goalie's out with Covid. Chuck in a defensive midfielder giving it a manful second go at centre-half and a right-back who's hardly seen the turf in two years due to injury and there's no way that team is going to be as robust under pressure or indeed as confident in possession as is needed.

What we saw today, sadly, was a haunted patchwork side devoid of confidence shredded down into its constituent parts. 

🎻🎻🎻🎻

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2 hours ago, Jimmy Raggatip said:

Whatever the mitigating circumstances, part of the game is in the mind, and it looks like the belief has gone from the players. I don't know how you get that back and I don't know enough about Smith to judge if he is a great motivator

You can get it back if there's something to build on, some glimmer of optimism, but there's nothing. Nothing. Not a single optimistic thing about the club. It just has to be damage limitation so that next season doesn't start badly. If it does, it could be very hard to turn round. So total backs to the wall in the hope of as many 0-0s or jammy 1-0s as possible for the rest of this season.

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4 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

🎻🎻🎻🎻

Can't even tell what those are meant to be. Did you bring a mariachi band into the comments field? 🙂

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I thought the performance against Arsenal was the worst I have seen in 70 years of watching NCFC. Today was slightly better with so many changes. We had 3 good goal scoring chances which is an improvement. Confidence is not there. Summer signings not premiership material, and if not good enough for relegated German second tier team how do you seriously expect them to cope in PREMIERSHIP. Too lightweight make stupid errors and get punished big time. I thought performance against Man U was better although United are not the greatest side at the moment. Some of the players might be good in a few years time but we DON'T have time. This season was the best chance of finishing at least four of the bottom with so many Clubs struggling, and yet we continue to make a mess of it. Far too lightweight in middle of park. Hernandez and Vrancic would help with physicality AND we need a finisher to help Pukki

 

OTBC

 

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1 hour ago, Ramrod said:

There is still a long season ahead so something has to change for these players or else they will be like whipped dogs.

Well, we've tried the new manager bounce and that has failed miserably, as it was always going to - the underlying problem is clearly Webber's summer recruitment.

Making Farke the fall guy for that may have created a temporary distraction but even if there was ever any doubt that this shambles was down to Webber there surely cannot be any doubt now.

As far as this season is concerned I'm not sure what else they can do other than spend a lot of money we don't have next month - that will almost certainly mean throwing good money after bad - and would you trust Webber to spend it wisely because I wouldn't!

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42 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Can't even tell what those are meant to be. Did you bring a mariachi band into the comments field? 🙂

World's smallest violin. Its been a season and a half of non-stop excuses for this team. I've had enough. Yes we've been unlucky at times, and have a terrible injury crisis at the moment, but that's no reason for us to put in such soulless lifeless pathetic performances. I can accept a drop in performances due to our injury issues, but not to the extent - or even close to the extent - of what we are seeing. 

Its why you have players like Placheta, who we tried to loan out pre season and barely looked a championship player last campaign, now seemingly one of our best players in the team. Ditto Sorensen. Two players who have come in from nowhere thanks to the injuries and actually earned a bit of credit. What about everyone else in between? We still had £25 million of new signings play today and 3 loanees, where were they?

If Placheta, Sorensen, and hell even Byram, can do decently when the rest of the team is performing so poorly, despite being miles away from first team football for months / years, then what the hell is the excuse for everyone else who has been able to play?

The excuses simply do not meet what we are seeing on the pitch, at all.

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I think there are fair comments in the original post. We’ve not been good enough and we are mature enough as a club to admit that, but the reaction from many is completely devoid of understanding of the circumstances we are in.

No one looks back at this season with pride. It’s been tough to endure and on occasions unacceptable but all in all we are still one of the top clubs of our size in the country and a relative success (notably as a club rather than a first team).

This team is threadbare right now, utterly and to deny that is ridiculous. That said we don’t particularly know our strongest team because we’ve not had a spell of good form to confirm it.

We spent some money, but not much when you factor in sales. Those calling our transfers a shambles have short memories. On paper we were largely happy as a fanbase. Most if not all signings had an element of gamble about them but also made sense based on our stature and budget. They’ve not worked out on the whole, but getting Gilmour or Williams in on loan was not silly or a big mistake. Webber isn’t an idiot, his gambles with injury have not worked out. He may have gambled too much but he had to gamble with what we had to work with.

You should be frustrated, I’m frustrated, but tearing this club apart and calling all its main participants a shambles is disrespectful to the work that has been done. Look at the graveyard of the championship and league 1, look at the size of the clubs there and have a bit more perspective.

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4 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

So Palace, with an already far stronger squad missing 3 players = us missing 9-10?  That’s very odd maths. 

My point does seem to be missing to many - it isn’t being happy clappy.  We may well have lost today whatever XI we put out - Palace are now (sadly) a seasoned PL side - but it would have been far more competitive.  With so many of our better players out, we were really up against it: for example in defence we had a keeper low on confidence with a scratch four in front of him.  To not even acknowledge this does seem unfair.

Oddly, I recall defending Farke big-time when others were desperate for him to be booted last season (and two seasons before that). I guess I’m just an advocate for them to be given time.

Agree with a lot of this. The loss of Normann and Rashica have been hammer blows of the highest order.

On the point of wanting ...........'them to be given time', I'd suggest that 25 YEARS is more than enough for anyone in any job don't you??  

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