I think we've made a huge mistake...

[WD40 720]

Must be trolling. What would changing Webber at that point do to the performance on the pitch? Farke had to go as he’d run out of ideas long ago. Smith had a fresh approach but that squad isn’t good enough.

Webber must take ultimate responsibility for this failure, but Farke had to go

[Monty13 2,231]

Just now, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Farke punching above his weight was to get his team promoted in the first place (players were also punching above their weight - hence why many were released or cancelled as they had no re-sale value). To get that team to stay in the division without further investment is to ask a miracle. To not appreciate that and then criticize Farke is unrealistic in my opinion.

I do appreciate that. I just don’t think Farke is blameless because our recruitment was poor. I said it elsewhere but Farke failing and Webber failing are not mutually exclusive. 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

It's not Smiths squad. Once the clear out has happened and we start next season judge him then.

Whats the best he can do next season, get us promoted?

We already had a manger who has proved he can do that.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Whats the best he can do next season, get us promoted?

We already had a manger who has proved he can do that.

This

[Monty13 2,231]

Just now, Van wink said:

Whats the best he can do next season, get us promoted?

We already had a manger who has proved he can do that.

What’s the point of getting promoted again with the same guy that’s proved he can’t do the job at PL level? Definition of madness.

What should we do sack him on promotion? Give him the old third times the charm approach? 

Kind of irrelevant as I don’t see any way Farke would have survived the crowd this season and if they stuck with him regardless I’d be doubtful of his ability to perform the same turnaround, especially with no goodwill and patience from the crowd.

[Van wink 2,994]

7 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

What’s the point of getting promoted again with the same guy that’s proved he can’t do the job at PL level? Definition of madness.

What should we do sack him on promotion? Give him the old third times the charm approach? 

Kind of irrelevant as I don’t see any way Farke would have survived the crowd this season and if they stuck with him regardless I’d be doubtful of his ability to perform the same turnaround, especially with no goodwill and patience from the crowd.

It's not getting promoted with the wrong manager, it's getting promoted with the wrong squad. I would have though that is becoming pretty obvious now.

[Monty13 2,231]

Just now, Van wink said:

It's not getting promoted with the wrong manager, it's getting promoted with the wrong squad. I would have though that is becoming pretty obvious now.

I don’t think it is obvious from the evidence of Smiths short tenure. He had this squad playing much better before absences and injuries hit IMO. I want to see him have a run with our best team.

[Van wink 2,994]

5 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I don’t think it is obvious from the evidence of Smiths short tenure. He had this squad playing much better before absences and injuries hit IMO. I want to see him have a run with our best team.

Our best team relies on quality players picked up at discounted prices because of their injury history, I very much doubt the luxury you describe will be afforded to any manager, certainly not for a sustained run of games.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

It's not Smiths squad. Once the clear out has happened and we start next season judge him then.

With what money?

And I wasn't blaming Smith at all. 

And surely he's a head coach here, not a manager? Webber recruits. Usually poorly.

Edited December 27, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Farke lost the players I think- lots of signs of discontent with Todd, Gimlour, etc - we needed the change. 

Cantwell has proven Farke correct regarding not being fit enough. 

Gilmour and Placheta perhaps the only players to improve a bit under Smith, but Gilmour still looks like a kid playing mens football and Placheta had a heart problem so may have got this chance under Farke.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

16 hours ago, HazzaJet said:

If you want to criticise Smith for our poor performances then I think you have to also criticise him for not playing Normann or Rashica recently.

If I wanted to criticise Smith for our poor performances then I would, but I don't and that's why I haven't??

[Naturalcynic 629]

16 hours ago, Van wink said:

Whats the best he can do next season, get us promoted?

We already had a manger who has proved he can do that.

And we already had a manager who had proved he was incapable of keeping us in the Prem.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 hours ago, hogesar said:

1) You were pretty vocal about wanting Farke out.

2) You were pretty sarcastic to posters including me when I said I didn't think sacking Farke for Smith was worth it. 

3) Despite that, all these judgement calls have come in the past few games, when we've had injuries and covid issues. Any promoted team regardless of finances or recruitment will not compete at this level with 5+ first team players out, especially when that includes two of your best players.

1). Actually I've been Webber Out a long time before I was Farke out. I can back that up. I was pointing out that Webbers recruitment had been poor a long time before I was suggesting we might need a change of  manager.

2). Yes I was to an extent, does that mean I should double down on one particular stance and never never being open to changing my mind? But it was primary directed at the middle aged the man who had a two week long public meltdown / tantrum, it was top tier cringe and he was talking about not renewing season tickets. 

3). Ten clubs have as many or more players out. We're in a pandemic, its all relative, every club gets a 25 man squad plus the ability to use unlimited numbers of under 21 players. You are imagining or inventing our injury crisis. Rashica looks tidy but isn't a god, he's got 1 assist and 0 goals this season, stop pretending he's a world beater who would be producing game winning moments in this team,

Normann is probably the best we have for defensive midfielder, even if he's a bit wasted there, but he's got a long history of injuries and we knew this when we went into the season, we knowingly took this risk. Webber has admitted that taking a punt on injury prone players is part of his strategy, it worked with Tim Krul, but seems to typically fail... Byram, Drmic, etc, just came and then got crocked again. If you sign injury prone players you will get injuries, it isn't rocket science. Are we saying that Webber signs injury prone players to get his excuses lined up?

Edited December 27, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

16 hours ago, Samwam27 said:

Under Farke we werent scoring

We've scored 1 goal in the last 6 games mate, what are you on about?

Its 3 goals in 7 games under Smith overall, it was 5 in 11 under Farke. 

What are you claiming has changed?

[Naturalcynic 629]

13 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We've scored 1 goal in the last 6 games mate, what are you on about?

Its 3 goals in 7 games under Smith overall, it was 5 in 11 under Farke. 

What are you claiming has changed?

It’s too early to form any meaningful verdict on Dean Smith, but on the pitch little’s changed.  We still have a sub-standard squad with only one real striker who is clearly not Premier League standard, which was obvious two seasons ago. We simply fail to create enough chances, and the few we do make we squander.  With an ineffectual midfield and a defence that leaks like a sieve we’re destined to be humiliated week in week out.  We’re riddled with mediocrity in both ability and attitude from the pitch right up to the Boardroom.

[The Real Buh 3,432]

I say end of the season we get rid of Webber and Smith and get Farke back

[Bradwell canary 109]

Even the best manager in the world would struggle to get any more from these new signings.

A manager in any walk of life can only work with the tools he is given. 
Farke never stood a chance of success, it’s the person who signed off these awful signings who should have sacked.

I guess we would all agree it was not DF.

Thats under the remit of Sporting Directors.

Webber when we were doing well in the Championship, thought he would go and work abroad in due course. Well his dream is duly shattered. Perhaps like nearly all the players, he is also limited at championship level. 

 

[Bomber 48]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but does not prove anything - imagine if he had stayed and results did not improve which by the way I am sure they would not have then the poor bloke would have been hounded out by fans to the point that his confidence and reputation would have been in tatters - he deserved more than that and by the way also deserved a better sacking scenario