Dean Smith what a disappointment…..

[The Great Mass Debater 1,075]

18 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I'm afraid we made a mistake getting rid of Daniel, not usually a negative poster but feel very strongly that we really got it wrong.

You're not alone. Hence the anger that Daniel's sacking was met with by a large number of fans on this board

[Monty13 2,229]

9 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Smith is still a good deal better than Farke. Farke was getting these kind of results with the majority of the team fit and available. Smith is playing games with half of the first team players missing. You simply can’t ignore these circumstances. 

Don’t be silly, people are constantly ignoring them.

That starting 11 was at best top 6 Championship standard and that’s if they were all fully fit and used to playing together as a unit.

Our plastered together first team just got swept aside by the divisions in form team. It’s entirely predictable but the lack of any real guts and fight is the one disappointing thing for me.

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, Olano said:

DS is doing a ok jobb. 

Er dont have players. And its realy early days for him. 

 

If It dont work then er can sign Kjetil Knutsen january the first 2023 😂😂😂

When they sacked Farke I assumed they had someone like him lined up, especially after a win that the players fought hard for. Then they appointed Smith and I knew Webber was flailing desperately around in the dark. A good half v Southampton caused some optimism, but then when goalless draws at home v Wolves and narrow defeats at home v Man Utd are offered as positives for Smith, you know he's not got much going for him.

[Helsinki canary 240]

We will go down with Smith at the helm, and have a new recruitment team in the summer, judge Smith and Shakey once its the team they have built , this time next year in the Championship will be the time to judge them

[Jambomo 215]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Speculation is fine but not proof. We really need to stick to facts.

Well looking at the league only, Farke had 12 games in charge and got 5 points. Smith has had 7 and has 5 points. He is, at present, doing a bit better.

How well the team plays is a bit objective as everyone can see it differently but the injuries and illness that Smith has had are much more severe than Farke had to deal with. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,075]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

No but we were massively critical of DF in his first season and he proved he could handle the Championship. I would be happy with that if Smith can do that VW. I really cannot see how we will be good enough to be in the EPL under Delia. No disrespect her but its becoming a trend.

Does Smith have a record of getting a club promoted as champions after a relegation?

Turning a sinking ship around and changing that losing mentality to a winning mentality is a massive achievement - one we clearly didnt respect/appreciate enough. It's not just winning the league. Its everytthing involved in taking a group of players getting mullered every week and turning them back into winners again.

Those who assume Smith will get us back up again I think are hugely underestimating what an achievement that was for Farke.

[lake district canary 4,530]

1 minute ago, Helsinki canary said:

We will go down with Smith at the helm, and have a new recruitment team in the summer, judge Smith and Shakey once its the team they have built , this time next year in the Championship will be the time to judge them

It was all so uneccessary. If Farke had been supported by Webber and trusted with his attitude to cantwell and gilmour, then we might still be able to play football a bit. Now we just don't look even League 1 standard.

[Jambomo 215]

7 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It was easier to score at least one at Newcastle with 10 men than it was to score 2 away v Brentford.

I disagree, they sat in and defended very well, it’s not unusual for teams to struggle to score against 10 men.  Brentford were more open. Again though, that is an objective opinion on both sides. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,075]

1 minute ago, Jambomo said:

Well looking at the league only, Farke had 12 games in charge and got 5 points. Smith has had 7 and has 5 points. He is, at present, doing a bit better.

How well the team plays is a bit objective as everyone can see it differently but the injuries and illness that Smith has had are much more severe than Farke had to deal with. 

 

You could also argue that Farke never got the benefit of the new manager bounce, which is often good for a few points, never got the chance to build on his first win of the season and played the best teams in the league, which I dont credit Smith with having done.

Farke also got players in with little pre-season, not fit and new to the team - think last minute signings of Kabak and Normann, neither of whom are fit. Smith inherited a squad who had at least been playing together for a few months.

Just saying you can make all sort or arguments for and against. 

But for me its nothing to do with the manager. Never was, and again having been led by Webber, shows in my opinion yet another terrible piece of judgement. Not to mention the manner in which it went down.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

The same people that gave Farke a whole season, now wanting Dean Smith out after a few games with a pxxs poor Farke and Webber squad. Have a word with yourselves...

[The Great Mass Debater 1,075]

9 minutes ago, Helsinki canary said:

We will go down with Smith at the helm, and have a new recruitment team in the summer, judge Smith and Shakey once its the team they have built , this time next year in the Championship will be the time to judge them

Will they be building the team though? Or is recruitement Webber's role? Im sure Smith and Shakespeare will have some input but with a DoF isnt it Webber who builds the team?

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, Jambomo said:

I disagree, they sat in and defended very well, it’s not unusual for teams to struggle to score against 10 men.  Brentford were more open. Again though, that is an objective opinion on both sides. 

Newcastle have conceded double the goals at home Brentford have. And that's with 11 players the majority of the time.

The Newcastle game was utterly abject. The Villa and Arsenal games were utterly abject.

Smith has actually had a favourable first 7 fixtures as well and got a dreadful return. He's only faced two away for crying out loud, and one of them against the worst team in the league (well, 2nd worst).

5 points out of 5 home games and 2 away games (one against a then winless team with 10 men for most of the game) is atrocious. It's inconceivable to think Farke would have got fewer points I'm afraid. You'd have probably got as many or more.

[Helsinki canary 240]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Will they be building the team though? Or is recruitement Webber's role? Im sure Smith and Shakespeare will have some input but with a DoF isnt it Webber who builds the team?

A new recruitment team will be in place and it cannot be led by Webber

[Jambomo 215]

5 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Newcastle have conceded double the goals at home Brentford have. And that's with 11 players the majority of the time.

The Newcastle game was utterly abject. The Villa and Arsenal games were utterly abject.

Smith has actually had a favourable first 7 fixtures as well and got a dreadful return. He's only faced two away for crying out loud, and one of them against the worst team in the league (well, 2nd worst).

5 points out of 5 home games and 2 away games (one against a then winless team with 10 men for most of the game) is atrocious. It's inconceivable to think Farke would have got fewer points I'm afraid. You'd have probably got as many or more.

It’s absolutely NOT inconceivable to think Farke would have got fewer points. It is entirely conceivable he would have, especially with these players out.

 

 

[Rustyboy 2]

The commentator made a good point, how many Norwich players would get in the Villa side?

[hogesar 9,609]

12 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The same people that gave Farke a whole season, now wanting Dean Smith out after a few games with a pxxs poor Farke and Webber squad. Have a word with yourselves...

Have to agree with the point that some are going in on Smith way too harshly. He's only been here a short while and the only performances that have been as bad as Farkes worst performances  at this level have been when he's had 7 or 8 players unavailable, more importantly our better players.

[Herman 9,696]

26 minutes ago, Olano said:

DS is doing a ok jobb. 

We dont have the players for this leage. And its realy early days for him. 

 

If It dont work then we can sign Kjetil Knutsen january the first 2023 😂😂😂

Is he still available??😉

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

It’s absolutely NOT inconceivable to think Farke would have got fewer points. It is entirely conceivable he would have, especially with these players out.

 

 

Everton(A), Burnley(A), Brighton(H), Chelsea(A), Leeds(H), Brentford(A)

Southampton(H), Wolves(H), Newcastle(A), Spurs(A), Man Utd(H), Villa(H), Arsenal(H)

It is much harder to get 5 points out of the first group of 6 fixtures than the second group of 7.

[Jambomo 215]

3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Everton(A), Burnley(A), Brighton(H), Chelsea(A), Leeds(H), Brentford(A)

Southampton(H), Wolves(H), Newcastle(A), Spurs(A), Man Utd(H), Villa(H), Arsenal(H)

It is much harder to get 5 points out of the first group of 6 fixtures than the second group of 7.

No it’s not. Spurs, Man U and Arsenal are tough teams, only Chelsea is really hard from the first lot. 

Anyway, we won’t agree so let’s stop arguing.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Jambomo

[Olano 100]

Just now, Herman said:

Is he still available??😉

He signed a new 3,5 year contract with Bodø/Glimt.

 

He had offers from Germany, Belgum, Nederlands,USA and intrest from England (Probabley Norwich) and France.

He is not leaving Glimt if he dont geth a super offer from a team like Norwich. And he is not going before January the first 2023.

(Glimt have now sold there 4 best players. He wanted the chalange to make a new top team with Glimt) 

 

[HazzaJet 252]

If you want to criticise Smith for our poor performances then I think you have to also criticise him for not playing Normann or Rashica recently. They had already been doing quite well under Farke and played in Smith’s amazing first two games, so why hasn’t he played them since? Has he fallen out with them or think they’re no good, so going send Normann home and sell Rashica next month? No - Normann got injured in Smith’s second game against Wolves, and Rashica in training before Newcastle and are still out. Had they been available for all the fixtures since then I’m certain we would have picked up 3 points against Newcastle, and probably 1 against Villa

I’m afraid I just can’t see how Smith can be criticised for our poor performances after all the credit he received after his first two games though, as in my opinion this huge drop in form after a great start under Smith is solely down to all the injuries we’ve received, mainly Normann and Rashica

Edited December 26, 2021 by HazzaJet

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, Jambomo said:

No it’s not. Spurs, Man U and Arsenal are tough teams, only Chelsea is really hard from the first lot. 

Fair enough that you think that. Personally I think that's cognitive dissonance at play and if you asked 100 neutral fans which set of fixtures they'd want, particularly given the Home Away disparity, 99 would pick the second set and the other 1 would be drunk.

[TheGunnShow 5,908]

1 minute ago, Olano said:

He signed a new 3,5 year contract with Bodø/Glimt.

 

He had offers from Germany, Belgum, Nederlands,USA and intrest from England (Probabley Norwich) and France.

He is not leaving Glimt if he dont geth a super offer from a team like Norwich. And he is not going before January the first 2023.

(Glimt have now sold there 4 best players. He wanted the chalange to make a new top team with Glimt) 

 

Who have Glimt sold?

[Olano 100]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Who have Glimt sold?

Patrick Berg to Lens

Erik Botheim to Krasnodar

Fredrik Bjørkan to Herta Berlin

Marius Lode to????? (Oute of contract january the first)

 

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Olano

[hogesar 9,609]

1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

Everton(A), Burnley(A), Brighton(H), Chelsea(A), Leeds(H), Brentford(A)

Southampton(H), Wolves(H), Newcastle(A), Spurs(A), Man Utd(H), Villa(H), Arsenal(H)

It is much harder to get 5 points out of the first group of 6 fixtures than the second group of 7.

But Farke also had Liverpool (H), Man City (A), Leicester (H), Arsenal (A) and Watford (H) to gain some points. 

[Indy 3,283]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

But Farke also had Liverpool (H), Man City (A), Leicester (H), Arsenal (A) and Watford (H) to gain some points. 

So will Smith, but in the reverse fixtures.

My original point stands, Webber bought in Smith to improve our chances of staying up, not for next season, he’s been as bad, no improvement whatsoever. The style is gone, we sit back waiting to lose, we’re not even looking to compete to win, just survive not conceding. We’ve lost three games at home and one away games without scoring! Since Manure we’ve looked like a disjointed and lost team with no identity. Smith isn’t to blame, he’s just no better than Farke in fact his CV is possibly more questionable as he’s spent 189 million and got sacked by Villa who finished way behind a Farke side in the championship after Smith spent a shed load on top loan signings.

Webber has to fall on his sword but I doubt our owners will have the bottle or the enthusiasm to make that type of big change come the summer. He’ll be here along with Smith, then we will see but from my view it’ll be too late, I don’t see us any better than he did with Brentford, mid championship for a few seasons. Just a little disappointed that as some of us questioned it at the t8me, Webber was all upbeat at the time of him signing on!

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

But Farke also had Liverpool (H), Man City (A), Leicester (H), Arsenal (A) and Watford (H) to gain some points. 

He did, and was denied 2 points out of those by 2 catastrophically bad decisions from officials (Leicester and Arsenal).

Plus, in the context of the theory that Farke had turned a corner, the recent games are more relevant.

Farke was a couple of refereeing injustices and a 1 in 1,000 Sargent howler from having us on 10 points from 11 games.

Smith was definitely on the receiving end of some rough justice versus Newcastle, but it's difficult to blame referees for our failure to win what can only be described as the easiest opportunity to acquire 3 away Premier League points we'll ever experience again.

Farke's big foul ups were Watford and Leeds at home, the former being the most inexcusable in terms of result and performance. But Villa and Arsenal at home, and Newcastle away, are as bad for me, arguably worse.

It doesn't baffle me that Farke was sacked. It baffles me that he was replaced with Smith.

 

[Alex 26]

The squads not that good and Smith isn't a great manager he is certainly not good enough to keep us up. To be honest I said this when we appointed him. We brought Smith in on the back of losing 5 in a row with a good Villa squad.  He almost got Villa releagted after spending 120 million and having Jack Grealish so there is no way he is keeping us up with the squad we have.

Edited December 26, 2021 by Alex

[kingsway 94]

You can't polish a turd! 

 

Dean Smiths a decent manger but you can only do so much with the squad who aren't nowhere near good enough at this level.

 

No other professional manager on the planet could stop this shower from going down!

[city4eva 207]

3 hours ago, Helsinki canary said:

We will go down with Smith at the helm, and have a new recruitment team in the summer, judge Smith and Shakey once its the team they have built , this time next year in the Championship will be the time to judge them

So we are no better off than if Farke had stayed…what was the point if relegation was a certainty