Who is responsible for these new signing?

[Bradwell canary 109]

It’s about time this question should be raised. My bet it was not Farke, who unfortunately had to play with the players he was dealt with.

I bet he had very little say in who was going out or coming in.

So it must be the top man, Webber who has to carry the can.  

 

Clearly his bragging  about spending more in the last window ( most from the sale of Emi) than in our history. That means nothing when most has been wasted. I’ve never seen such a load of dross signed in one window before……by any club!

it seems to me there will no longer be a long line of clubs wanting his services as he thought there would be.

We have to accept every time we get promoted, we are living the dream, but punching above out weight. The Championship is our rightfully home!

 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

Webber and his head of european scouting Mariela Nikosaki must shoulder the responsibility for our shortcomings in the summer recruitment.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

I have a hard time believing Webber is as naive as the profile of our a lot of our signings suggests. I think it's mix between an idealistic Farke demanding a certain type of player and us missing out on our top targets yet again this summer, although the club would never admit that this season. 

I'm trying to take comfort from that fact that the Villa team that Smith built that we saw last night had everything you need to compete in the PL and then some, the team was full of strength, energy, intensity and running power, Matty Cash in particular was just on a whole different stratosphere physically to anyone in our team, he must have run more than either of our FB's combined. I'm hoping that by working with Smith in the future that Webber will stop signing so many lightweight powderpuff players and that next time we manage to get most of our top targets by some miracle. 

[Sooty57 403]

6 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I'm trying to take comfort from that fact that the Villa team that Smith built that we saw last night had everything you need to compete in the PL and then some.

Hadn't thought of putting that positive spin on it, but nice one! Let's hope he can do the same here on what is likely to be a more restrictive budget.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

9 minutes ago, Sooty57 said:

Hadn't thought of putting that positive spin on it, but nice one! Let's hope he can do the same here on what is likely to be a more restrictive budget.

Shame that Smith was no good at managing them any more than our bunch of misfits. He'd be the first one I'd move on.

[mannings bandy legs 385]

Webber's been very quiet lately....just put that out there......🙊

[Kingston Yellow 220]

1 hour ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I have a hard time believing Webber is as naive as the profile of our a lot of our signings suggests. I think it's mix between an idealistic Farke demanding a certain type of player and us missing out on our top targets yet again this summer, although the club would never admit that this season. 

I'm trying to take comfort from that fact that the Villa team that Smith built that we saw last night had everything you need to compete in the PL and then some, the team was full of strength, energy, intensity and running power, Matty Cash in particular was just on a whole different stratosphere physically to anyone in our team, he must have run more than either of our FB's combined. I'm hoping that by working with Smith in the future that Webber will stop signing so many lightweight powderpuff players and that next time we manage to get most of our top targets by some miracle. 

How incredibly naive.  It can’t possibly be Sir Webber who led / signed off on the signings we’ve made.  Can it? Must be Farke. This time in the prem and last time.

 

It’s simply chance that he’s not exactly been turning down other career opportunities.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

It's a strange day to be focussing on players we signed. Most of them didn't play last night. Many of the ones that did play weren't up to replacing them.

Giannoulis, Normann, Rashica, Lees Melou and Sargent would all have vastly improved that team.

 

 

[hogesar 9,618]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's a strange day to be focussing on players we signed. Most of them didn't play last night. Many of the ones that did play weren't up to replacing them.

Giannoulis, Normann, Rashica, Lees Melou and Sargent would all have vastly improved that team.

 

 

Nah. Stop posting context. It doesn't go down well here right now.

[Hackney Canary 97]

1 hour ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I have a hard time believing Webber is as naive as the profile of our a lot of our signings suggests. I think it's mix between an idealistic Farke demanding a certain type of player and us missing out on our top targets yet again this summer, although the club would never admit that this season. 

I'm trying to take comfort from that fact that the Villa team that Smith built that we saw last night had everything you need to compete in the PL and then some, the team was full of strength, energy, intensity and running power, Matty Cash in particular was just on a whole different stratosphere physically to anyone in our team, he must have run more than either of our FB's combined. I'm hoping that by working with Smith in the future that Webber will stop signing so many lightweight powderpuff players and that next time we manage to get most of our top targets by some miracle. 

I think the recruitment strategy quite rightly has to come under scrutiny. It’s interesting to wonder on whose promptings certain players were signed. There was a lot of chat after the last relegation that we had failed to sign players with the strength and athleticism required in the PL. Also, in that premiership season we had a mercurially talented, but lightweight, midfielder - Leitner - in whom Farke lost faith in the first instance because he couldn’t compete physically (it may be true that other issues came into play after he lost his place). Regardless, it always seemed strange that after that our marquee loan signing was Billy Gilmour. Now, I like Billy, think he has a lot of talent, but he doesn’t have the strength and drive to pull us out of a game like last night, and without some protection he can go missing in a game in the same way that Leitner could. My point, really, is whose idea was he? Farke’s? Webber’s. And what was the plan to use him? I don’t quite get it. 
 

Look at the other signings and ask what the plan was:

 

Tzolis - fail, a big risk bringing in a young lad and expecting him to shine. If they thought he wasn’t for now, why sign him for £10m in a season with so much riding on it. 
 

Sargent - fail. I love his effort and think he offers us something in terms of stickability, but in the box and around he is shocking. Unbelievable, in retrospect, to sign a striker with his numbers when we knew we had to give Pukki a hand. 
 

Lees-Melou - fail. I like the guy. He’s decent, but is he an upgrade on what we have? No, not really. 
 

Rashica - success-ish - the second best of the bunch, offers a real threat, but still hasn’t scored or directly created anything. Still, he can operate in the PL. 

Billy - half and half. Clearly talented, clearly willing, now he’s in the team, to get stuck in, but lightweight. 
 

Normann - success, but probably arrived too late. He’s got a bit of everything. Injured at a disastrous moment. 
 

Kabak - hmmm…. One good game, one nightmare. Can see why we signed him, but what has he changed? Been unlucky with injuries and the like, but looked panicked last night. 
 

Williams - decent, combative, but how did he fit with January’s plan to bring in Giannoulis? Seems like we’ve sacrificed the latter on the altar of the former and done it pretty quickly too, which doesn’t cast good light on the strategy. 
 

All in all - and I accept we’ve had bad luck with injuries, Covid - but that is not a strong record of achievement on current evidence. Webber has to be the one responsible. I’d say two of the signings, in the context of our situation and needs, are genuinely shocking: Sargent and Tzolis. Nothing against the players, but for what we need, in this crucial season, they represent a very expensive wasted opportunity. It’s incredibly frustrating. In 2 or 3 games recently we’ve deserved to win, but haven’t had the quality to get over the line. Take 6 additional points from those games - absolutely plausible - and we’re out of the bottom 3 and right in the mix. But we didn’t and now we look well and truly sunk. Happy Bloody Christmas. 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

41 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

It's a strange day to be focussing on players we signed. Most of them didn't play last night. Many of the ones that did play weren't up to replacing them.

Giannoulis, Normann, Rashica, Lees Melou and Sargent would all have vastly improved that team.

 

 

Just Normann and Rashica out of those for me but hey that is just an opinion Nutty.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

11 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Just Normann and Rashica out of those for me but hey that is just an opinion Nutty.

Strangely in that first half I'd have gladly swapped Sargent for Cantwell so we had an out ball. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by nutty nigel

[Mello Yello 2,281]

We've got 'Strength in Dearth'.....

[Duncan Edwards 2,219]

14 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Strangely in that first half I'd have gladly swapped Sargent for Cantwell so we had an out ball. 

I’d have happily put you on for Cantwell. I think you’re more mobile. And probably quicker. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

12 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I’d have happily put you on for Cantwell. I think you’re more mobile. And probably quicker. 

Do you think the others might have passed me the ball?

[Duncan Edwards 2,219]

5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Do you think the others might have passed me the ball?

Doubtful Gilmour would have. He struggled to find a teammate all night. 

[Canaries north 151]

Every player has been brought for a hopeful sell on. Not a single player for the here and now. With our finances we have to gamble a bit but if only a couple of the players signed had premiership experience, just a couple. Sargent was a very bad signing but some of the others might grow but how can you in a team with such a lack of premiership experience. I feel sorry for Tzolis. Someone like Tzolis, slowly integrated into a team who had a plan and knew the premier League well enough to help him through could have become a star, yes still a big COULD. With things as they are,he must regret coming here. 

[Sooty57 403]

18 hours ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

Shame that Smith was no good at managing them any more than our bunch of misfits. He'd be the first one I'd move on.

Just looking for a positive in what was an absolute pile of sh*te performance. If I can't do that I might as well chuck the season ticket in the bin right now, and stop wasting my time going to games.

In truth, I am as probably as p*ssed off as you about the backward steps we seem to have taken, and our prospects for the future. A second opportunity blown.

[Rolf Harris 31]

**** players but a nice training ground. Winners a lossers.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

I’m sure Webber would have done better if able to offer premiership wages and fees. Instead he was asked to pull rabbits from hats by signing players with future potential on championship salaries who were able to hit the ground running at a level capable of keeping us up. Not sure anyone would have done any better…aside arguably from maybe focusing on more quality and less quantity - but again if you won’t offer appropriate wages you won’t get even one quality signing. It’s back to investment model again but that will upset the board apologists 

[king canary 7,578]

While it will be Webber who is responsible for incomings, I'm less clear on the outgoings.

Farke essentially stopped using a number of players in the Championship season and I can't imagine if he'd have said to Webber in the summer 'I really want to keep Klose/Steipermann/Hernandez' that Webber would overrule him, especially as most of these players weren't bringing in a decent fee. 

[hogesar 9,618]

48 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’m sure Webber would have done better if able to offer premiership wages and fees. Instead he was asked to pull rabbits from hats by signing players with future potential on championship salaries who were able to hit the ground running at a level capable of keeping us up. Not sure anyone would have done any better…aside arguably from maybe focusing on more quality and less quantity - but again if you won’t offer appropriate wages you won’t get even one quality signing. It’s back to investment model again but that will upset the board apologists 

But it was "our best window ever on paper" wasn't it DCB? 🙂

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

19 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

It's a strange day to be focussing on players we signed. Most of them didn't play last night. Many of the ones that did play weren't up to replacing them.

Giannoulis, Normann, Rashica, Lees Melou and Sargent would all have vastly improved that team.

 

 

Lees Melou and Sargent ... really? 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

22 hours ago, Sooty57 said:

Hadn't thought of putting that positive spin on it, but nice one! Let's hope he can do the same here on what is likely to be a more restrictive budget.

I liked that also a majority of the team he built was young British or English based players who know the country and our game needing lass time to adapt 

[kirku 1,332]

20 hours ago, Hackney Canary said:

I think the recruitment strategy quite rightly has to come under scrutiny.

And the previous PL windows:

Fahrmann - Fail. The only way to spin it being remotely worthwhile was that it brought the best out of Krul - for which we paid about £3m.

McCallum - Fail. Only because he's clearly nowhere near our team. Could be good in the future - like Tzolis.

Byram - Fail. Is decent enough but the reason he was so cheap is also the reason he's been out for basically 2 years.

Rupp - Hit. He cost £450k.

Drmic - Fail. Obviously.

Duda - Fail. Obviously.

Amadou - Fail. Obviously.

Roberts - Fail. Obviously.

----

Over the two periods, we spent £12-13m on players that aren't developed enough to help the squad at the time of their signing (McCallum and Tzolis). Add that on to the ~8m that Sargent cost and we could've potentially spent £20m on a forward to help Pukki.

I'm aware this is a rather simplistic way of looking at it, but it does call into question the strategy. The counter-argument will be that we hope to flip them all at a considerable profit further down the line. But at what cost?

Edited December 16, 2021 by kirku

[Mengo 821]

The persons or person at the very top of this organisation called Norwich City Football ⚽️ club

Responsibility apparently always comes from the top. If you can ever believe that

Remember shiiiiiit runs 🏃‍♀️ 😉 downhill.

[king canary 7,578]

59 minutes ago, kirku said:

I'm aware this is a rather simplistic way of looking at it, but it does call into question the strategy. The counter-argument will be that we hope to flip them all at a considerable profit further down the line. But at what cost?

The other counter argument is 'who else do you sign?'

I'm interested in examples of established Premier League players that we think could have hit the ground running and fit into our budget. Lots of people point to Watford adding Rose, Sissoko and King for minimal fees but a quick google suggests they would probably all be earning more than our top earners.

The nature of our budget and the way the club works is always going to make adding oven ready Premier League players very difficult. 

[Mengo 821]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

The other counter argument is 'who else do you sign?'

I'm interested in examples of established Premier League players that we think could have hit the ground running and fit into our budget. Lots of people point to Watford adding Rose, Sissoko and King for minimal fees but a quick google suggests they would probably all be earning more than our top earners.

The nature of our budget and the way the club works is always going to make adding oven ready Premier League players very difficult. 

The nature of our budget and the way the club works is always going to make adding oven ready Premier League players very difficult. 

EXACTLY this 👏 in a nutshell .

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

The other counter argument is 'who else do you sign?'

I'm interested in examples of established Premier League players that we think could have hit the ground running and fit into our budget. Lots of people point to Watford adding Rose, Sissoko and King for minimal fees but a quick google suggests they would probably all be earning more than our top earners.

The nature of our budget and the way the club works is always going to make adding oven ready Premier League players very difficult. 

Well, a decision was made to sign both Tzolis and Sargent in this window for an approximate overall spend of £20m.

If transfer fees (it's actually wages but let's ignore that for now...) can be indicative of a player's ability, could we have spent that £20m on a player who was more capable of impacting PL games this season?

I don't have the wider footballing knowledge to suggest exactly who that player would be, but the above is the question I'd be asking Webber..

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, Mengo said:

The nature of our budget and the way the club works is always going to make adding oven ready Premier League players very difficult. 

EXACTLY this 👏 in a nutshell .

I don't believe this to be true. We had a budget that could've been spent on acquiring:

- X number of "ones for the future" or "calculated gambles"

or

- Fewer Premier League standard players

We chose the former, when the latter was clearly an option.