Verstappen

[KiwiScot 1,443]

Just now, Surfer said:

Cars required to maintain their distance when the safety car comes out seems the most logical rule change, but hey ho, what's not to like from a sporting scandal?

They had one of those during the middle of the race called a virtual safety car where the cars maintain position but reduce to the speed they'd be as if behind an actual safety car. However if the position of the crashed car or debris is deemed to dangerous for other drivers or race marshalls an actual safety car is deployed

[Surfer 1,547]

Ah thanks for that explanation. 

[KiwiScot 1,443]

Just now, ricardo said:

You either allow all the lapped cars to overtake or none of them not just a few. This is a manufactured result.

Agreed, but a result that seems normal in this day and age where the spectable or controversy is preferred for brand promotion. Race should have finished under the safety race.

However race officials clearly favoured Hamilton early on in the race when he was overtook by Verstappen and cut the corner to retake the lead. Not having to give back the position changed the race and on balance with Hamilton being faster who knows what would have happened if Hamilton was stuck behind Verstappen.

[ricardo 7,385]

I would highlight the following:

“...and the message ‘LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE’ has been sent to all competitors...”

“...once the last lapped car has passed the leader...”

That didn't happen

Edited December 12, 2021 by ricardo

[ricardo 7,385]

No surprise

 

[Newtopia 517]

it is a mess, the official made a call, a real odd one, but if they go back on it what message does that send.  Absolute shambles, the saddest part is Lewis was clearly the best driver, he pulled away clear at the start of the race on harder tyres, and was around quarter of a second faster when they were in a like for like race.

[ricardo 7,385]

BREAKING: Mercedes have protested "against the classification established at the end of the Competition", relating to alleged breaches of Articles 48.8 and 48.12 of the FIA Sporting Regulations

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

BREAKING: Mercedes have protested "against the classification established at the end of the Competition", relating to alleged breaches of Articles 48.8 and 48.12 of the FIA Sporting Regulations

I think the result has to stand, but Masi must resign after making a decision that effectively gave Verstappen the race while actually breaking the rules as written by only allowing cars between Verstappen and Hamilton to unlap.

Utterly disgusting,but credit to Hamilton for acting with grace at the end, in a way we'd never have seen from Verstappen or Horner. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by littleyellowbirdie

[Jim Smith 2,317]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think the result has to stand, but Masi must resign after making a decision that effectively gave Verstappen the race while actually breaking the rules as written by only allowing cars between Verstappen and Hamilton to unlap.

Utterly disgusting,but credit to Hamilton for acting with grace at the end, in a way we'd never have seen from Verstappen or Horner. 

Not so sure. It seems very clear to me that the rule was applied incorrectly and that actually the race was effectively over as the safety car should have continued for another lap.

it’s so embarrassing for them that I am sure the FIA will try and fudge it but Mercedes appear to have a clear case to me.

[ricardo 7,385]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think the result has to stand, but Masi must resign after making a decision that effectively gave Verstappen the race while actually breaking the rules as written by only allowing cars between Verstappen and Hamilton to unlap.

Utterly disgusting,but credit to Hamilton for acting with grace at the end, in a way we'd never have seen from Verstappen or Horner. 

As FIA are judge and jury (and whisper it quietly, French) it wouldn't surprise me if they ignore their own rules. Masi has quite clearly contravened the rule book and made it up to manufacture a result.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

50 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I would highlight the following:

“...and the message ‘LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE’ has been sent to all competitors...”

“...once the last lapped car has passed the leader...”

That didn't happen

Also the safety car leaves at the end of “the following lap” which was the last lap. 

[ricardo 7,385]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Also the safety car leaves at the end of “the following lap” which was the last lap. 

Its a clear breach of the rules but as I said before FIA do as they please. The whole thing stinks.

[Canary dwarf 221]

I didn't see any black cats run across max today , but I guess there must have been one , what a massive stroke of luck for red bull today , I didn't realise Christian Horner was married to Geri halliwell.😄

[Indy 3,298]

Yep unfortunately Masi has messed this up, it wasn’t like Hamilton was under any pressure all race, he allowed Horner to get his way on the radio and cocked the regulations up……a decent experienced guy would have red flagged the race there and then allowed them both to change tyres and battle it out over the last five laps, instead he handed it on a plate to verstappen who didn’t deserve this win. He’ll (Masi) not be there next year, this will end up being counted back to lap 57 as a result you watch!

Edited December 12, 2021 by Indy

[Canary dwarf 221]

I backed max with sky bet and got paid out , if the result is overturned can they take the money back ? 😙

[Indy 3,298]

1 minute ago, Canary dwarf said:

I backed max with sky bet and got paid out , if the result is overturned can they take the money back ? 😙

Should have backed both then when it’s overturned you’d get paid twice!

[ricardo 7,385]

11 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

I backed max with sky bet and got paid out , if the result is overturned can they take the money back ? 😙

No, if they've paid out its their loss.

I wouldn't worry about it the FIA are French so there's more chance of you getting a Jersey fishing license than them turning over the result for a British driver.😄

Edited December 12, 2021 by ricardo

[Indy 3,298]

6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

No, if they've paid out its their loss.

I wouldn't worry about it the FIA are French so there's more chance of you getting a Jersey fishing liceense than them turning over the result for a British driver.😄

Masi is an Aussie too!🤔😉

[Canary dwarf 221]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

No, if they've paid out its their loss.

I wouldn't worry about it the FIA are French so there's more chance of you getting a Jersey fishing liceense than them turning over the result for a British driver.😄

Ok thanks for that  that's cool , big respect to Lewis he was very gracious in defeat , 😁

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Horner is the biggest moaner in F1. Anything that Mercedes does he believes is cheating.

Masi seemed to be evening it up after the failure to give Verstappen the place back.

Surely with so few laps left and an 11 second lead, he should have let the safety car take them to the finish. It wasn't Hamilton's fault that he had gone past the pit entry when the safety car came out. But Verstappen, being so far behind took advantage of it. Not his fault either of course.

 

[ricardo 7,385]

10 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Horner is the biggest moaner in F1. Anything that Mercedes does he believes is cheating.

Masi seemed to be evening it up after the failure to give Verstappen the place back.

Surely with so few laps left and an 11 second lead, he should have let the safety car take them to the finish. It wasn't Hamilton's fault that he had gone past the pit entry when the safety car came out. But Verstappen, being so far behind took advantage of it. Not his fault either of course.

 

The earlier events are irrelevant, its the not following the rules on the restart that is the issue. It really is black and white but I expect FIA will declare the colour spectrum nul and void.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The earlier events are irrelevant, its the not following the rules on the restart that is the issue. It really is black and white but I expect FIA will declare the colour spectrum nul and void.

The way Brundle was talking, letting the lapped cars overtake is not a given.

[ricardo 7,385]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

The way Brundle was talking, letting the lapped cars overtake is not a given.

Indeed, but you either let them all pass or none of them, not just enough to put Verstappen right behind Hamilton.

[ricardo 7,385]

This is obviously not over.

 

Christian Horner just said to me nothing decided yet but he expects a decision tonight. Presumably the losing side will then appeal anyway.

https://twitter.com/MBrundleF1/status/1470091344626556941

[KiwiScot 1,443]

Just now, ricardo said:

Indeed, but you either let them all pass or none of them, not just enough to put Verstappen right behind Hamilton.

Guys in charge under pressures from all side obviously went **** it the track is good we want this to end with these two racing not under the safety car, go go go.

 

[ricardo 7,385]

1 minute ago, KiwiScot said:

Guys in charge under pressures from all side obviously went **** it the track is good we want this to end with these two racing not under the safety car, go go go.

 

Guys in charge making their own rules to manufacture a false result.

[ricardo 7,385]

Both teams now with the Stewards.

This is almost more exciting than the race.

[sonyc 5,517]

That was some cynical manoeuvre there, utterly ripping up any sporting integrity - like being 3 goals to the good and entering stoppage time with VAR then retrospectively ruling out all three goals. Oh...and the VAR official is Simon Hooper on duty.

Seems a travesty of a result and surely must go down in history as one of the most unfair decisions in sport (thinking of Suarez and his antics as a contender for Uruguay all those years ago, and certainly Schumacher's brutal challenge on Battiston in the World Cup).

Quite shameful.

[KiwiScot 1,443]

Just now, ricardo said:

Guys in charge making their own rules to manufacture a false result.

An exciting result. Unsafe and against the rules, but exciting and better than finishing under the safety car

[ricardo 7,385]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

That was some cynical manoeuvre there, utterly ripping up any sporting integrity - like being 3 goals to the good and entering stoppage time with VAR then retrospectively ruling out all three goals. Oh...and the VAR official is Simon Hooper on duty.

Seems a travesty of a result and surely must go down in history as one of the most unfair decisions in sport (thinking of Suarez and his antics as a contender for Uruguay all those years ago, and certainly Schumacher's brutal challenge on Battiston in the World Cup).

Quite shameful.

That won't stop the FIA. They can make up whatever rules they like including ones that didn't exist when the race began.

I still expect this to go to court.

Edited December 12, 2021 by ricardo