Verstappen

[Van wink 2,994]

The only solution here is a one lap race in an Austin Allegro

[Newtopia 517]

I guess this was not a surprise, and the cold reflective decision is worse then the original mistake.

[sonyc 5,491]

3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The only solution here is a one lap race in an Austin Allegro

As long as the other car in the race off was a Trabant.

There again, the Trabant might at least finish a lap!

[KiwiScot 1,436]

Congrats Max Verstappen.

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

There’s an argument to have joint winners for the season.

[KiwiScot 1,436]

Just now, Block Y Seat 176 said:

There’s an argument to have joint winners for the season.

I agree. Michael Schumacher(not Mick) to be joint winner with Verstappen and take a record 8 titles. Masi says so.

[Indy 3,283]

Totally expected it’s not good for the US sport that is F1 to have Mercedes winning this season, especially when they made massive design rule changes this season just designed to penalise the Mercedes car, they expected Red Bull to walk this season. I’m not that bothered as I’m not over enamoured by Lewis but he definitely deserved the win and championship, robbed by the F1 brand today, Masi knew he’d let Verstappen have it, it wasn’t won it was decided by an Aussie, worse than VAR. 

The only option he had was to Red flag the race then restart once the track was clear with both teams on an even playing field….Red Bull the Man U of motorsport!

Edited December 12, 2021 by Indy

[ricardo 7,345]

Told ya.

FIA can say black is white.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

How can they say it was exciting. Formula One is basically a Merc versus a Red Bull. It hasn't been exciting for years. That it came down to the final race is coincidence not theatre.

The two drivers are far and away the best and someone else wins when they take each other out.

As Indy says, they are changing the rules to attempt to even it up like Indycar. Which would suit red Bull because they will be producing their own engines next season.

I was hoping next season might be better with Russell going to Mercedes and McLaren emerging with Norris as a serious podium contender. But I fear it will be a Red Bull procession.

[Indy 3,283]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

How can they say it was exciting. Formula One is basically a Merc versus a Red Bull. It hasn't been exciting for years. That it came down to the final race is coincidence not theatre.

The two drivers are far and away the best and someone else wins when they take each other out.

As Indy says, they are changing the rules to attempt to even it up like Indycar. Which would suit red Bull because they will be producing their own engines next season.

I was hoping next season might be better with Russell going to Mercedes and McLaren emerging with Norris as a serious podium contender. But I fear it will be a Red Bull procession.

You have to wonder just how much Red Bull pump into US motorsport sponsorship! 

[A Load of Squit 5,128]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

 

I was hoping next season might be better with Russell going to Mercedes and McLaren emerging with Norris as a serious podium contender. But I fear it will be a Red Bull procession.

Next season the cars change, it'll be difficult to predict what will happen, we'll have to wait for pre-season practise.

[ricardo 7,345]

It is a grubby unsatisfactory way to end the season but I guess its all about the money in the end.

[Foxy2600 297]

13 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It is a grubby unsatisfactory way to end the season but I guess its all about the money in the end.

Not really, Mercedes could’ve pitted for Soft tyres ….. or am I missing something??

[Indy 3,283]

5 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

Not really, Mercedes could’ve pitted for Soft tyres ….. or am I missing something??

 

they certainly could have and he’d have ended up behind Verstappen then Masi would have just finished the race behind the safety car. There was only one fair way as I’ve already stated the red flag option.

[Foxy2600 297]

It’s funny on the Pinkun Non-Football forum that people aren’t embracing the Dutch driver who races for an Austrian team who beat the nasty Tax Dodging Brit (who lives in Monaco).

I’m a neutral, and agree with Damon Hill - Merc should have pitted. 

[ricardo 7,345]

16 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

Not really, Mercedes could’ve pitted for Soft tyres ….. or am I missing something??

You are missing quite a lot.

[Foxy2600 297]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

You are missing quite a lot.

Damon Hill too apparently 🙂

[Indy 3,283]

Just now, Foxy2600 said:

It’s funny on the Pinkun Non-Football forum that people aren’t embracing the Dutch driver who races for an Austrian team who beat the nasty Tax Dodging Brit (who lives in Monaco).

I’m a neutral, and agree with Damon Hill - Merc should have pitted. 

I’ve already said I have no issues with either winning, I’m not overly keen on Lewis as reason you’ve stated and a few others, but he’s a great driver along with Verstappen who’s also a great driver, to have it decided by Masi is the issue I have. Mercedes are German, both teams are based in England so really don’t see you’re point! It’s not about being anti European it’s about a brilliant season finishing in a farce!

[Foxy2600 297]

Dunno about a farce, mostly I’m into Superbikes and Moto GP.

It was  free to air today and I did watch the Saudi Race that actually was a farce. I think for the neutral this race did F1 a big favour. And yes I understand the UK supports 8 out of 10 teams. 
 

I just wanted Honda to go out with a bang.

[Indy 3,283]

Just now, Foxy2600 said:

Dunno about a farce, mostly I’m into Superbikes and Moto GP.

It was  free to air today and I did watch the Saudi Race that actually was a farce. I think for the neutral this race did F1 a big favour. And yes I understand the UK supports 8 out of 10 teams. 
 

I just wanted Honda to go out with a bang.

Yes indeed Honda are just rebranding to Red Bull they’ve bought the next years engines from Honda. And indeed it was a good race till the last 5 laps Hamilton was miles better on track, but the race control could have done more to even the race, he didn’t deserve that last lap. But hey Verstappen certainly deserves credit for the season and this championship doesn’t really sit well with me and a lot of others, had it been Bottas instead of Hamilton I’d still be saying the same, it was handed to Red Bull by Masi. Not earned today.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

It makes it fun for next season at least. Russell pushing Hamilton and both gunning for Verstappen.

[Newtopia 517]

2 hours ago, Foxy2600 said:

Not really, Mercedes could’ve pitted for Soft tyres ….. or am I missing something??

That was a real gamble for Lewis, as he would have had to give up track position, Verstappen only did it because it was his only chance to win, in truth he was well beaten all race.

[Foxy2600 297]

15 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

That was a real gamble for Lewis, as he would have had to give up track position, Verstappen only did it because it was his only chance to win, in truth he was well beaten all race.

I’m pretty sure - and I’ve just rewound the coverage, Lewis is absolutely confused that he’s not coming in to replace tyres. 
 

His engineer is saying track position is more important - yet with new boots he’d have had it in the bag. 

[Newtopia 517]

34 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

I’m pretty sure - and I’ve just rewound the coverage, Lewis is absolutely confused that he’s not coming in to replace tyres. 
 

His engineer is saying track position is more important - yet with new boots he’d have had it in the bag. 

Was that not the right advice, assuming the FIA followed the rules?  Had he pitted when 6 seconds ahead and verstappen didn’t he would have been in second place in a race that was unlikely to be restarted. Had they left Max to overtake the back markers who Lewis had already passed, Lewis would have won, only a very specific set of events allowed Max to become world champion.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

7 hours ago, Newtopia said:

Was that not the right advice, assuming the FIA followed the rules?  Had he pitted when 6 seconds ahead and verstappen didn’t he would have been in second place in a race that was unlikely to be restarted. Had they left Max to overtake the back markers who Lewis had already passed, Lewis would have won, only a very specific set of events allowed Max to become world champion.

Yes at that point the commentators were thinking the race would not restart, so if Hamilton had changed tyres he’d have fallen behind and lost. By the time they said the 5 lapped cars could pass and the race would restart, it was too late.

 

so BBC breakfast headlines this morning saying it “ended in farce” are spot on. I don’t watch F1 generally and this doesn’t make me want to watch it next season, they’ve blown a massive chance to get a wider viewing audience.

[KernowCanary 214]

Going to be controversial here…..

As if Hamilton don’t always get on the wrong side of the stewards decisions anyway, there was an incident at the start of the race in which he hit Max and got let off, he should have been sanctioned for that so this evens things out.

[sonyc 5,491]

1 hour ago, It's Character Forming said:

so BBC breakfast headlines this morning saying it “ended in farce” are spot on. I don’t watch F1 generally and this doesn’t make me want to watch it next season, they’ve blown a massive chance to get a wider viewing audience.

I don't watch F1 as a rule either but decided to for this race as it was the final one and for it's significance. The commentary on the rules even from the first incident in the first lap centred around the different interpretations of the rules, so much so that it continued for what seemed like a few laps. Until an official determination appeared to have been made. 

At the end at first it was one ruling on the restart then that changed in a minute and suddenly you saw Verstappen and Hamilton lined up together for one final lap. To my eyes after 56 or 57 laps of Hamilton ahead (seemingly his strategy was the right one to remain with his tyres), it was ludicrous or ridiculous (take your pick). With such seemingly random rule changes and interpretation how can this be a sport?

I won't be bothering next year. As posted earlier, there was something cynical about it. Like watching late penalties being given to the top teams in the PL. The weekend just gone was a great example.

It makes me feel like looking for other sporting events to follow that are far less loaded (which include the PL too....only a few months ago there was widespread condemnation of the European Super League and of the English clubs involvement. That has completely been forgotten. Everything has returned to a focus on that self-serving gravy train).

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by sonyc

[ncfcstar 287]

1 hour ago, KernowCanary said:

Going to be controversial here…..

As if Hamilton don’t always get on the wrong side of the stewards decisions anyway, there was an incident at the start of the race in which he hit Max and got let off, he should have been sanctioned for that so this evens things out.

That incident only happened because Max was overly aggressive going into the corner, I don't really have a problem with that but it comes with its own risks and rewards - Lewis had no option but to evade Verstappen by leaving the track, the only other option was to make the turn and take both himself and Verstappen out of the race.  One way to prevent this kind of driving is to bring back gravel traps.

The ending was an absolute farce because Lewis had to stay out, he couldn't pit and lose track position in a race which looked like it would end behind the safety car - the fact that race director suddenly decided to change his mind and allowed Verstappen to overtake a sitting duck is disgraceful in my opinion.

[KiwiScot 1,436]

Just now, ncfcstar said:

That incident only happened because Max was overly aggressive going into the corner, I don't really have a problem with that but it comes with its own risks and rewards - Lewis had no option but to evade Verstappen by leaving the track, the only other option was to make the turn and take both himself and Verstappen out of the race.  One way to prevent this kind of driving is to bring back gravel traps.

The ending was an absolute farce because Lewis had to stay out, he couldn't pit and lose track position in a race which looked like it would end behind the safety car - the fact that race director suddenly decided to change his mind and allowed Verstappen to overtake a sitting duck is disgraceful in my opinion.

All the decisions made matter towards the final result. The farce is only because the last decision is so close to the end we all have a picture of how it should end. That first incident in the overall context further highlights bad decision making.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

15 hours ago, Indy said:

Totally expected it’s not good for the US sport that is F1 to have Mercedes winning this season, especially when they made massive design rule changes this season just designed to penalise the Mercedes car, they expected Red Bull to walk this season. I’m not that bothered as I’m not over enamoured by Lewis but he definitely deserved the win and championship, robbed by the F1 brand today, Masi knew he’d let Verstappen have it, it wasn’t won it was decided by an Aussie, worse than VAR. 

The only option he had was to Red flag the race then restart once the track was clear with both teams on an even playing field….Red Bull the Man U of motorsport!

Once he’d decided not to suspend the race he and it got to 2 laps to go he had 2 options.

1. Let ALL the lapped cars unlap and then take the safety car off in the following lap. Hamilton wins as the following lap was the last lap and rules say the drivers have to continue to the finish in the same order. OR

2. don’t let the lapped cars unlap, take the safety car off and race the final lap. In that scenario Max still benefits and a slight chance he catches Hamilton but he still has 3/4 seconds to make up and 5 cars to get passed in the process. This is what he said was going to happen with 2 laps left before suddenly changing his mind.

He chose a mixture of the above which is not in the rules and resulted in a manifestly unfair outcome. Mercedes are 100% right in my view but whether it’s worth them pursuing it all the way is another matter.