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lake district canary

Where is the spark, where are the heroes?

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6 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

The players may not be good enough for us to survive but I don’t believe we’d have took 5 points from the last 4 games under Farke personally.

Smith is working under the same conditions and he will likely fail given what he took over, but I personally think he’s doing a better job and will do a better job than Farke. Farke was a brilliant manager in the Championship but his PL record was woeful, you can’t blame that all on the squad IMO, so he’s no fall guy.

We will never know if Farke would have taken more or fewer points. 

Smith has had a much more favourable run of fixtures to start with than Farke had this season though. The results have been okay but no better. We were very lucky to beat Southampton (first half was, for me, the worst we've played all season except maybe Chelsea second half), maybe a little unlucky not to beat Wolves, and then have put in two poor away displays. Newcastle was mostly dreadful. I thought we did okay today but just lacked quality. 

Smith has had very few games though so it's unfair to draw any conclusions yet and he deserves plenty of time. The next 6 games look very difficult though, including the defeat today, so we'll see whether the criticism starts to come for Smith in due course when we, most likely have an Xmas period that yields very little. West Ham and Palace away both fill me with dread. 

Farke had a woeful PL record but he had a woeful PL squad. In my view the current squad is still sub-par. I place far more blame on the recruitment than I will Farke, and indeed Smith, if this campaign ends in relegation as it most likely will. 

 

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2 hours ago, Nora's Ghost said:

I prefer the Championship anyway but can't see anyone getting too excited about a promotion chase again after the last couple of disasters. What is the point?

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Couldn’t agree more. Our ownership model is about as up to date as a mullet haircut. 

Every time we go up It’s like entering the world Grand Prix final in a 1990s Vauxhall Astra.
 

Football went global a long time ago- and we are being held back. 

 

Sadly this is where I’m at as well. There’s no point going up if we can’t compete, and we will never compete with our wage structure driven by the financial constraints of the ownership model.

Fans were very patient with the project last time we were embarrassed at this level, which was somewhat rewarded with another great championship campaign. But we find ourselves in the same predicament. So either the leadership team are inept and didn’t learn lessons (possible), or the constraints the team work within make it impossible to put a competitive PL squad together (most likely).  

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

we need Pukki to be more clinical.

Do we?

His chancel conversion rate this season is better than Cristiano Ronaldo, football's greatest ever goalscorer. Lets not develop unrealistic expectations hey?

 

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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1 hour ago, WD40 said:

Sadly this is where I’m at as well. There’s no point going up if we can’t compete, and we will never compete with our wage structure driven by the financial constraints of the ownership model.

Fans were very patient with the project last time we were embarrassed at this level, which was somewhat rewarded with another great championship campaign. But we find ourselves in the same predicament. So either the leadership team are inept and didn’t learn lessons (possible), or the constraints the team work within make it impossible to put a competitive PL squad together (most likely).  

There is another possibility.

It is possible to compete under our model, but the recruitment has to be spot on.

This season, the recruitment hasn't been spot on. It's been nowhere near.

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9 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Smith set the team up well today, they looked well organised, it's just that there is no spark. To me they don't look as if they believe in themselves enough. Really missing Normann - but there should be others that show that kind of passion too, shouldn't just be down to him. Too many youngsters maybe and not enough older characters. Zimbo would be great in showing that kind of leadership imo. 

I don’t really agree. We created lots of good chances. One of those goes in and it’s a different game. 2 or 3 of them should have been scored. 

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6 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

There is another possibility.

It is possible to compete under our model, but the recruitment has to be spot on.

This season, the recruitment hasn't been spot on. It's been nowhere near.

This. We still have a gaping hole in our midfield where a CDM should be and Sargent and Idah as our back up strikers is embarrassing. Sargent is possibly up there for worst signing ever if he continues as he is. 

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9 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

There is another possibility.

It is possible to compete under our model, but the recruitment has to be spot on.

This season, the recruitment hasn't been spot on. It's been nowhere near.

With what we have to spend on players and wages. How could the recruitment ever be spot on. 

If you could pick up decent premier league quality players for the money we have and on the wages we offer then others would snap them up first for just a little more money and a little more wages. We have signed what the rest of the premier league dont want.

The only way to get players that might be premier league quality signings is to take a punt on a total outsider like we did with Emi. Problem is you need to be very lucky and you go through a bag of total dross as well. 

We can attract good championship players when were in the championship because were nearer the top of that particular tree. And they see it as a route to the premier league. Unfortunately very few can make that step up once there. 

Like it or not we dont really have any great plan or model. We spend when we can or more likely when the powers that be think the fans wont stand for not spending any more. Trouble is we spank the money up the wall on the Sargents and Gibsons rather that trying to retain the Emi's or make serious bids for the Skipps. Were run by people who have no interest in improving our status only maintaining their control. Why else would they not be look, desperately looking for investment!

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Say what you want about the OTT positivity Lakey has shown in the past with unwavering loyalty for Farke, Neil and Hughton until the end and beyond, but at least it was always consistent then. 

This post appears to be a complete change from his normal stances, has your worshipping of Farke murkied your positivity? Have you taken off your yellow and green specs? 

Although I don't think we will stay up personally, under normal circumstances I could imagine there being lots for Lakey to cling on to since Smith has joined the club which he would be running a mile with right now via lengthy lectures. 

What's changed Lakey?

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Let’s face it, with the squad that we have we are certain to be relegated!

I don’t think that I want to see another promotion until we have a change of ownership.

This season has been our most embarrassing in the Premier League.

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5 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Well Lakey I never thought I'd see the day when you've effectively waved the white flag. You've always been insanely optimistic about everything pitchside.

Have you finally been infected with a dose of realism at long last ?

Possibly. I think the last twelve years have been such a roller coaster - the Lambert years, the Hughton attempts to progress us, the Adams/Neil promotion season, the rebuild under Farke - unforgettable memories of Wembley and promotions, occasional spectacular results in the PL - but I now think that with Farke going (as I concede he probably had to) we are left with the same problems......we can't play the PL game with what we have available and Smith doesn't - to me at any rate - seem to have the answers, any more than Farke did, so for me it's all gone a bit flat. 

I really hope Smith can get more out of the players he has at his disposal than Farke was able to, but I'm not seeing it. To me Farke had lost his way a bit, but given time imo he would have got it back. We gave up the possibly the most iconic manager we've ever had, for something that imo doesn't look a lot different on the pitch, especially the last two games. Yes, I'm probably still grieving for the loss of that little bit of magic that DF brought to the club, but really, we don't look any better, Cantwell still isn't playing, Gilmour still looks limited and Sargent still raw. No change there then, except there has been a lot of change.....and for what? 

 

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10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Possibly. I think the last twelve years have been such a roller coaster - the Lambert years, the Hughton attempts to progress us, the Adams/Neil promotion season, the rebuild under Farke - unforgettable memories of Wembley and promotions, occasional spectacular results in the PL - but I now think that with Farke going (as I concede he probably had to) we are left with the same problems......we can't play the PL game with what we have available and Smith doesn't - to me at any rate - seem to have the answers, any more than Farke did, so for me it's all gone a bit flat. 

I really hope Smith can get more out of the players he has at his disposal than Farke was able to, but I'm not seeing it. To me Farke had lost his way a bit, but given time imo he would have got it back. We gave up the possibly the most iconic manager we've ever had, for something that imo doesn't look a lot different on the pitch, especially the last two games. Yes, I'm probably still grieving for the loss of that little bit of magic that DF brought to the club, but really, we don't look any better, Cantwell still isn't playing, Gilmour still looks limited and Sargent still raw. No change there then, except there has been a lot of change.....and for what? 

 

Well, that's it for me, once Lakeyo  expresses doubt,  we're  in trouble.  As I can still see him ushering people onto the lifeboats  as the Titanic sank saying, " we'll only need to be in these for a couple of hours, the Capt and crew will have the ship bailed out and back on course  in no time". 

Don't give up on us Lakey...we can still pull through.!!

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It's all about progression, We have Normann & Rashica out who do create sparks in this squad so it's a set back.  We're trying to get Sargent, Tzolis or Cantwell to come in and fire.  And you'd expect one of the three to do so.

Smith barely been here, plenty of positives and untapped potentials in the squad - it's not as though we've exhausted our options by any means.

 If we took our chances then we would've got at least 4 points from last two games.  We're still clearing the grey skies of the defeatist underdog attitude that Farke left on these players and finally starting to move forwards in getting at teams, like we should've from day one.

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18 hours ago, Danke bitte said:

Weirdly I thought this earlier. I’ve had such a fantastic time the last 4 years under Farke, playing Blackburn and Preston again, being promoted again only to be the whipping boy of the Prem again fills me with about as much joy as January and February. I’m starting to not give a shiit 

You're not alone

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4 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

With what we have to spend on players and wages. How could the recruitment ever be spot on. 

If you could pick up decent premier league quality players for the money we have and on the wages we offer then others would snap them up first for just a little more money and a little more wages. We have signed what the rest of the premier league dont want.

The only way to get players that might be premier league quality signings is to take a punt on a total outsider like we did with Emi. Problem is you need to be very lucky and you go through a bag of total dross as well. 

We can attract good championship players when were in the championship because were nearer the top of that particular tree. And they see it as a route to the premier league. Unfortunately very few can make that step up once there. 

Like it or not we dont really have any great plan or model. We spend when we can or more likely when the powers that be think the fans wont stand for not spending any more. Trouble is we spank the money up the wall on the Sargents and Gibsons rather that trying to retain the Emi's or make serious bids for the Skipps. Were run by people who have no interest in improving our status only maintaining their control. Why else would they not be look, desperately looking for investment!

Investment, or put another way throwing money into a club, is not always the answer. Everton have thrown circa £500m at the playing squad in recent years. Are the fans happy? No, protest against rich owner organised for tonight’s game. Fans leaving their seats in the 27th minute to mark 27 years of not winning anything.

Alex Iwobi for £35m v Josh Sargeant for £8m. You can still spend unwisely, the difference is the sums are bigger.

Not having a big pot of money is definitely a handicap, but just having it is not the answer on its own.

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We seem to battle unless we go one down. If another goes in thats the end, and the fight goes.

For whatever reasons Cantwell was left out, the fresh start seems to be working (even Sorensen got himself on the pitch!)

IMO we need to get Cantwell and Tzolis game time, as the latter will adjust to the Premiership the more he plays, and Cantwell will get match fit the more he plays. Both will only get sharper the more game time, and having one of those, with Rashica playing, instantly gives me more hope for goals. Same goes for Normann

  For me the jury is still out on Gilmour. Just seems a luxury that doesn't give us anything extra. I'm still holding out for Sorensen to edge his way into the team and show maybe he is the CDM we've been lacking, alongside Normann, that allows Rash,  Cantwell and Tzolis to run riot with Pukki. To me that;s our strongest outlay as a 4-2-3-1, or Mclean with Normann/Sorensen and tow of Rash/Tzol & Cantwell as a 4-3-3- with Pukki. We haven't seen that yet, but I'm just not convinced Gilmour is the answer, and if Sorensen isn't either I'd prefer we let Gilmour go and look to use his space for a CDM, more more combative midfielder 

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I’m going to see my first First Team game on Saturday. Every Friday I meet my mate for drinks, he’s lifelong WBA , season tick, and I’ve never known him so disillusioned. I fear many of us will be in his shoes come next December - 3rd in Champs but not happy. If we are going down I’d rather it was Farke style 18/19, rather than a pragmatic but ultimately failing descent. 

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17 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

This season, the recruitment hasn't been spot on. It's been nowhere near.

Recruitment hasn't been strong since summer 2018.

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4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Recruitment hasn't been strong since summer 2018.

Dunno, 20/21 Champ window was decent. But Webber’s roster is looking patchy at best has to be said. I don’t know if it’s a lack of money or general nous or a combo of both but we fkkd this summer up that much is clear. 

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It’s not webbers fault. If you are given £10 million and championship wage structure to sign a premiership striker you get….Sargent. 
 

top Championship strikers cost much more than that last season!! 

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9 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

With what we have to spend on players and wages. How could the recruitment ever be spot on. 

If you could pick up decent premier league quality players for the money we have and on the wages we offer then others would snap them up first for just a little more money and a little more wages. We have signed what the rest of the premier league dont want.

The only way to get players that might be premier league quality signings is to take a punt on a total outsider like we did with Emi. Problem is you need to be very lucky and you go through a bag of total dross as well. 

We can attract good championship players when were in the championship because were nearer the top of that particular tree. And they see it as a route to the premier league. Unfortunately very few can make that step up once there. 

Like it or not we dont really have any great plan or model. We spend when we can or more likely when the powers that be think the fans wont stand for not spending any more. Trouble is we spank the money up the wall on the Sargents and Gibsons rather that trying to retain the Emi's or make serious bids for the Skipps. Were run by people who have no interest in improving our status only maintaining their control. Why else would they not be look, desperately looking for investment!

The answer to how the recruitment could be spot on is, to be fair, 'With great difficulty'.

However, it is clear that we haven't entirely recruited with the sole focus of survival in mind. Sargent and Tzolis have been signed with the future in mind. The plan being at some stage that they will be saleable assets worth more than we paid for them.

Now, you can make a case as to why that is entirely understandable using our model. But, it hasn't given us the best chance to stay up in the here and now. To do that, we needed a few more players like Normann, Giannoulis and Rashica, in the 24-27 year age bracket, than playing Sargent, Idah, Tzolis as well as Omobamidele who are all very inexperienced in football in general, not just the PL. 

£10m doesn't buy you a lot these days in terms of PL quality, but it probably could have got us better than we've got. In that sense, I don't blame Webber entirely for the poor recruitment. But it is a combination of financial muscle lacking, as well as the club's transfer strategy overall, as well as the individual players identified and recruited not coming up to PL standard. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It’s not webbers fault. If you are given £10 million and championship wage structure to sign a premiership striker you get….Sargent. 
 

top Championship strikers cost much more than that last season!! 

Except that he wasn't, he was given at least £60m.

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23 hours ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

Hilarious that the criticism comes out after Farke has gone.... classic Lakey.

 

Moaning about Aarons who has been the only consistently good player in the side other than Pukki. Williams and Giannoulis also offer plenty on the left. Gilmour has arguably made all the right decisions since he’s been back in the side under Smith. 
 

What games are you watching mate? 

Going to disagree re Aarons, think he's massively regressed this season. Doesn't take his man on anymore, always looking for the safe backwards pass, barring his chance v Wolves I can't recall him attacking the opposition defence. 

He's been the biggest disappointment for me this season, as he actually is better than this, unlike a lot of the others who are simply crap. 

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2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It’s not webbers fault. If you are given £10 million and championship wage structure to sign a premiership striker you get….Sargent. 
 

top Championship strikers cost much more than that last season!! 

Tell that to Watford and Emmanuel Dennis or Brentford and Ivan Toney, both cost less combined than Sargent. 

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