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Can we get a refund for Sargent?

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

  When a striker is off form, they think too much, which is what happens to Sargent imo. Just relax and trust your ability - easy to say of course, but that is the answer.

Well i have just read that Sargent is a striker. You learn something every day.

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1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Everyone's criticising Sargent, but other than a left foot, what does Idah offer that Sargent doesn't?

Not sure its a reflection of ability because I agree I don't think Idah has been particularly better, at all, its more the fact that we didn't shell out £9 million for Idah.

I think the thing with Sargent is his total inability to convert chances, if he'd stuck away the open goal against Brighton and the tap in versus Newcastle he wouldn't have many people on his back. Its just the total failure to do the absolute basics when it comes to scoring a goal... A bit worrying as he's spurned several chances now which were perfect 'confidence-building' type chances. If he can't score when the odds are stacked in his favour then I worry when he will!

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5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Everyone's criticising Sargent, but other than a left foot, what does Idah offer that Sargent doesn't?

True but Idah didn't cost us £8 or9 million.

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Good point on midfielders. Check out the top scorers list in the league. There Aren't many if any that have 2 out and out strikers on there. Teams have midfielders who score. Gilmour and McLean do not look like they will ever score. McLean has 1 in nearly 50 prem games. We can all rue losing Emi but his goalscoring in the prem was just as poor. 

I'll keep banging the PLM drum because I don't see any of our midfielders scoring except him and Normann

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50 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Everyone's criticising Sargent, but other than a left foot, what does Idah offer that Sargent doesn't?

I think Idah looks more willing to put himself about physically compared to Sargent. Does more of the traditional centre forward stuff of backing into CB's, Sargent looks to either go in behind or drop off. I think its also important to note that although they're both young, Sargent has played over 5000 minutes at senior club level, having pretty much 2 seasons of consistent involvement for Werder Bremen in the Bundesliga. Compare this to Idah who has 1400 minutes, the majority of which have been appearances off the bench. At this point the club may have missed the best time to loan him out (the best probably would have been the back end of the 19/20 season, after his hat trick vs Preston in the cup) so now find themselves with a player who hasn't played anywhere near enough senior football being asked to do a pretty tricky job.

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Everyone's criticising Sargent, but other than a left foot, what does Idah offer that Sargent doesn't?

As a forward?  It's being in the right positions, and can strike a ball well.  We wouldn't have scored against Newcastle if it wasn't for Idah's presence near the keeper.  Idah's so quick to react to that ball coming in and forcing the keeper to do something with the ball.

In forward positions, What you're doing off the ball is an aspect that many overlook - Sargent just looks lost, and ends up isolating himself between defenders.

As a wide player, different beasts really.  You're comparing Sargent with Rashica/Cantwell/Tzolis/Dowell then.

Edited by Google Bot

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Everyone's criticising Sargent, but other than a left foot, what does Idah offer that Sargent doesn't?

In fairness I've been equal in my moaning about the pair of them 😁

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12 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

As a forward?  It's being in the right positions, and can strike a ball well.  We wouldn't have scored against Newcastle if it wasn't for Idah's presence near the keeper.  Idah's so quick to react to that ball coming in and forcing the keeper to do something with the ball.

In forward positions, What you're doing off the ball is an aspect that many overlook - Sargent just looks lost, and ends up isolating himself between defenders.

As a wide player, different beasts really.  You're comparing Sargent with Rashica/Cantwell/Tzolis/Dowell then.

Yep. Idah was quick to react to that teasing cross from B.G. which made the keeper have to commit. Good team effort all round ending up with a cracking goal from Pukki. 

I feel so sorry for J.S. its a difficult one for the SAS. Idah imo needs to get minutes now. Progression. We can do it

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Everyone's criticising Sargent, but other than a left foot, what does Idah offer that Sargent doesn't?

Possibly nothing, but it would be nice to find out by giving him the kind of opportunity that Sargent has had.

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Living up north I have not seen much youth team football so can only go on a friend's opinion who did. His verdict on Idah was always he was a boy in a man's body at youth team levels. Not the best footballer but because of his size he could bully other players. Not sure on other people's view. If true this might now be showing in the first team when up against players of similar build and not having that advantage. As for Sargent, I don't think it's confidence just a lack of basic skills. If a kid in the youth team showed that lack of touch he would be released. We are going to have to rely on Pukki so much unless something can be done in January but Its going to be a struggle to get anyone in who will make a difference. 

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How about trying to convert Tzolis into a striker? He's getting chunkier in build and is starting to look more like a poacher than a winger IMO. He scored 10 goals last season as a winger (admittedly in the Greek league) so he can hit the back of the net. His 16 assists prove that he can pass a ball and work alongside a colleague (in this case, Pukki). Does my thought sound crazy or does it seem possible, do you think?

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On 05/12/2021 at 17:22, Capt. Pants said:

Whether Sargent is better or worse than RvW is neither here nor there. 

Webber has criticised the club in the past for pissing money up the wall, and on his watch Sargent becomes yet another example.

I suspect that he must be incredibly disappointed how Josh has turned out, so far. 

Would you rather Sargent + PLM or a Naismith? 

RVW had a good proven record before signing for NCFC. 

Webber's approach is as thus, buy many on the cheap on the hopes that a couple of them pay off and command transfer fees 10x what we paid for them. Since SW joined the club we're net positive in transfers. Maybe Sargent is a flop (as bad as his ability is, I think it is more of a matter of confidence), and maybe Tzolis or Rashica will be the ones who balance the books.

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I think he just needs more time, then he'll soon start scoring goals.

We just need to be patient. He has been fantastic in some games, like Bournemouth and Southampton. And he has a great personality on the Norwich YouTube channel.

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32 minutes ago, Lee Marshall said:

I think he just needs more time, then he'll soon start scoring goals.

We just need to be patient. He has been fantastic in some games, like Bournemouth and Southampton. And he has a great personality on the Norwich YouTube channel.

Oh yeah we have bags of time to wiat for him to come good in this league haven't we and you do know that it was a makesshift Bournemouth team littered with U23's ?

By the way 3 threads in 35 minutes since you joined together with 13 posts may raise a few eyebrows. 😜

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1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

Oh yeah we have bags of time to wiat for him to come good in this league haven't we and you do know that it was a makesshift Bournemouth team littered with U23's ?

By the way 3 threads in 35 minutes since you joined together with 13 posts may raise a few eyebrows. 😜

1. We did have time to wait for Jackson back in 2011, and look what happened. He got two hatricks.

2. Sargent has been great doing other roles on the pitch.

3. Still a first-team.

 

What? I'm eager to post, that's all.

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Bournemouth had a second/ third string championship team out including a  defender who had spent the previous 2 seasons on loan at Weymouth. If he didn't look good then, well we really would have a problem. Saints, ran around a bit and put him self about. The problem is not confidence. It's ability. Not his fault but he shouldn't be playing at this level. Also people who say he can be coached, he has been coached for many years and this is as far as his ability has got. We don't have another 5 years until he learns how to trap a ball. 

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1 hour ago, Lee Marshall said:

He has been fantastic in some games, like Bournemouth and Southampton.

The player who was fantastic in the Bournemouth game was Tzolis. Then he screwed it up in the penalty incident when he took the ball off Idah and ended up on Farke's naughty step. And one personal quality Farke didn't have was the ability to forgive and forget.

I accept Sargent was good in that game, although if you look at his second goal in the game (our sixth), he almost managed to screw that up from about two yards out with his usual clumsiness. And so, for those who say that the problem is nervousness and feeling under pressure rather than lack of technical ability, if he still does that at 5-0, I beg to disagree.

Edited by canarybubbles
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It seems most on here have forgotten what Iwans first few games were like. he couldnt trap a bag of sand with no idea where the net was.

Take a look at yourselves, the lad is 21, his first time in the Prem, and has started 9/10(?) games for us in the most unforgiving league in the world.

Sad.

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11 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

It seems most on here have forgotten what Iwans first few games were like. he couldnt trap a bag of sand with no idea where the net was.

Take a look at yourselves, the lad is 21, his first time in the Prem, and has started 9/10(?) games for us in the most unforgiving league in the world.

Sad.

Yes, but he seems to be getting worse each game!

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15 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

Take a look at yourselves, the lad is 21, his first time in the Prem, and has started 9/10(?) games for us in the most unforgiving league in the world.

I hear you but due diligence should have suggested we opt to buy a player who could hit the ground running, not hit the ground with two left feet. We don’t have time to bed him in. It’s the fault of whoever sanctioned the move in fairness. Must’ve destroyed his confidence by now. 

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Its not his fault he was £9m or we bought loads of other players with very little experience and even less experience in the Prem. 

Boo'ing him like many did on Sunday was shocking. No wonder his confidence is shot. Again, he's 21. Grow up you grumpy old warriors.

I was at Charlton last night and they have a "White Pele" song for Alan Lee who had a decent game then had a embarrasing howler of a shot when on goal. As soon as he picked himself up off the floor after said "fluff", the CAFC fans started singing the song again to lift him. He went back to playing a blinder and set up their 2nd. *Hint*

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28 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

Boo'ing him like many did on Sunday was shocking. 

 

I agree 100% that we shouldn't boo him. But neither should we play him again and again and again. Give other people a chance.

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On 08/12/2021 at 05:49, canarybubbles said:

How about trying to convert Tzolis into a striker? He's getting chunkier in build and is starting to look more like a poacher than a winger IMO. He scored 10 goals last season as a winger (admittedly in the Greek league) so he can hit the back of the net. His 16 assists prove that he can pass a ball and work alongside a colleague (in this case, Pukki). Does my thought sound crazy or does it seem possible, do you think?

At the moment I'd give the kit man a crack at it if he could find the back of the net.

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20 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

 

I agree 100% that we shouldn't boo him. But neither should we play him again and again and again. Give other people a chance.

I don't know why Deano didn't give Cantwell some gametime? What with Rashica out for a while, Sargent out of form and Tzolis blowing cold and luke warm why he didn't give him some minutes.

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On 08/12/2021 at 18:49, canarybubbles said:

How about trying to convert Tzolis into a striker? He's getting chunkier in build and is starting to look more like a poacher than a winger IMO. He scored 10 goals last season as a winger (admittedly in the Greek league) so he can hit the back of the net. His 16 assists prove that he can pass a ball and work alongside a colleague (in this case, Pukki). Does my thought sound crazy or does it seem possible, do you think?

You have something here ! Before the Newcastle game I put Tzolis behind Sargent in the pecking order - they both seem to not know what to do with ball but Sargent had physicality. Against Newcastle he again appeared innocuous until popping up in the Newcastle box and getting shots away out of nothing. Also supplied a cross that could have resulted in a goal. Was unhappy to see him subbed.  Agree with you and hope S & S picked up on that too !!

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On 08/12/2021 at 16:34, spencer 1970 said:

It seems most on here have forgotten what Iwans first few games were like. he couldnt trap a bag of sand with no idea where the net was.

Take a look at yourselves, the lad is 21, his first time in the Prem, and has started 9/10(?) games for us in the most unforgiving league in the world.

Sad.

I'll say again... 

...this OP hasn't aged well has it?

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The only good thing about this thread was learning you can get a 'Redhead Car wash.'

My car is bleeding filthy! 

 

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4 hours ago, spencer 1970 said:

I'll say again... 

...this OP hasn't aged well has it?

Love me some humble pie.

 

Had a fantastic game. Still poor at dribbling and ball control, but has proved me and many others wrong. Just hope he keeps it up.

🥧

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That's still £4.5m per goal. A great start after showing little in his first half season. Let's reserve judgement until we see what he can do in the Championship.

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