What a poor window it was

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Newcastle was, for me, a game which summed up how had the transfer window was. 

Kabak looked decent on paper but is currently not an upgrade on Hanley or Gibson. 

Normann the exception to the rule. A great signing. We need him back.  Upgrade on ageing Tettey

Sargent seems a total waste of money. He’s young and might develop but nowhere near ready for premiership football. Not an upgrade on hugill - who wasn’t good enough! 

Same with Tzolis who looks raw and in need of a loan- I think Onel would have given us more.

Gilmour is beloved of the media but looks lightweight and ineffective a lot of times. I think leitner was as good had we not alienated him 

Rashica is starting to show quality - but had big boots to fill in Emi. A good player but not an upgrade on what we had last year therefore.

Gunn- cost a pretty penny for a reserve goalkeeper. I think fans would have been outraged if he wasn’t linked to club by his dad. Arguably not an upgrade on Nyland.

PLM- decent signing but championship quality. Not an upgrade on Vrancic - similar quality but less flair. 

Brandon Williams- waste of a loan. We have Gianoullis who is just as good and no striker back up??! 
 

Dean Smith- I was attacked for suggesting Farke had taken us as far as he could, but the change since Smith arrived has proved it. An upgrade 

Bottom line- a very poor window leaving us with little to spend in January but obvious needs in the starting XI. We need another goal scoring striker and another CDM to cover Normann when injured. (As Sorenson can’t buy a game for some reason) 

 

 

 

[hogesar 9,615]

I mean anyone can make out like they're a footballing genius with hindsight. Unfortunately,  you said:

On 31/08/2021 at 07:26, Dean Coneys boots said:

Fair credit to the board. Those two signings have turned this into a very solid transfer window indeed- perhaps the best I can remember on paper. Bravo Webber two days have totally plugged the gaps. My bad for doubting! 

Don’t know much (anything) about Normann but hope he is the CDM we are crying out for. Kabak is a huge signing for us- marquee. 
 

 

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Rashica was NOT signed as an Emi replacement. He’s a completely different style of player. The lazy comparisons from fans and pundits just shows the lack of understanding.

Also, Rashica is a fantastic signing.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

Did you not once say this was one of the best transfers windows we have ever had or something like that?

 

Anyway aside from Lees-Melou (Who is decent and an upgrade on Rupp in my opinion) the transfers are all young and inexperienced and rather raw at this level. I have no doubt many of them will be future superstars, just not with us.

 

Which is partly why I said I wished we just bought older and much more experienced proven Premier League players but of course that would cost too much and we would not be able to try and make a profit of off them in a few years so that's never going to happen sadly

Edited December 2, 2021 by cambridgeshire canary

[KiwiScot 1,436]

Is it more a question that for transfers we can afford good quality championship players, but not good Premier League ones. Again these players need more time, but clearly at the moment not up to par for this league.

[Nuff Said 5,088]

2 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Is it more a question that for transfers we can afford good quality championship players, but not good Premier League ones. Again these players need more time, but clearly at the moment not up to par for this league.

The players who have just got us 8 points from the last four games?

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

I don't think it (the window) was that bad, and think that that player analysis is somewhat harsh.

The biggets fault with the window wasn't the players we brought in, but those we failed to acquire.

As good as Norman is he is not that brick ****e-house of a beast of a defensive midfielder we all envisgaed in our wildest dreams. A sort of Trevor Hockey with knobs on. If one actually exists.

As useful as Sargent seems he is not that goal-getting alternative to Teemu Pukki that was needed. 

Now those area need addressing in the next window, funds permitting.

Such procrastination fails, as KiwiScot suggested, to see the wood from the trees.

Widespread criticism of our inability to cash in on Tuesday evening does the same.

The fact is that that Newcatle team had players who cost them £40m and more and who are all probably on twice the wage of our own.

That is our lot. We either accept the model, sway with the wind or deny it and any conversation outling the team's shortcomings need first and foremost appreciate the club's limitations in the way it is run.

That we expect more, that entitlement abounds is due to that model having been, up to a point, so succesful in recent seasons. 

It therefore becomes confusing, but talk of glass ceilings and change of some sort is not unrealistic.

A wider perspective is essential to avoid such nit-pickery as demonstrated in the OP and other postings this week.

Edited December 2, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[king canary 7,577]

Feels an odd game to try and draw that conclusion from.

Our three 'biggest' signings of the window either weren't available or had only just returned to the bench after a spell out with glandular fever. 

Sure, Sargent looked really poor on Tuesday but Tzolis was only making his second start and maybe deserves a bit more patience.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

52 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Rashica was NOT signed as an Emi replacement. He’s a completely different style of player. The lazy comparisons from fans and pundits just shows the lack of understanding.

Also, Rashica is a fantastic signing.

Saying someone is signed as a replacement is different to saying they are identical players. Clearly he was signed as a Buendia replacement - that was the gap left by his departure 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I mean anyone can make out like they're a footballing genius with hindsight. Unfortunately,  you said:

 

One quote and you can’t let it go. You have a problem - try and change the record. For the umpteenth time the signing of Kabak and Normann made me much happier at the time. Hence the quote. But my overall message as any fair minded person will remember was that letting emi go and the loss of Skipp was catastrophic and that we weren’t looking any better than the year before. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

[Deptford Yellow 258]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Newcastle was, for me, a game which summed up how had the transfer window was. 

Kabak looked decent on paper but is currently not an upgrade on Hanley or Gibson. 

Normann the exception to the rule. A great signing. We need him back.  Upgrade on ageing Tettey

Sargent seems a total waste of money. He’s young and might develop but nowhere near ready for premiership football. Not an upgrade on hugill - who wasn’t good enough! 

Same with Tzolis who looks raw and in need of a loan- I think Onel would have given us more.

Gilmour is beloved of the media but looks lightweight and ineffective a lot of times. I think leitner was as good had we not alienated him 

Rashica is starting to show quality - but had big boots to fill in Emi. A good player but not an upgrade on what we had last year therefore.

Gunn- cost a pretty penny for a reserve goalkeeper. I think fans would have been outraged if he wasn’t linked to club by his dad. Arguably not an upgrade on Nyland.

PLM- decent signing but championship quality. Not an upgrade on Vrancic - similar quality but less flair. 

Brandon Williams- waste of a loan. We have Gianoullis who is just as good and no striker back up??! 
 

Dean Smith- I was attacked for suggesting Farke had taken us as far as he could, but the change since Smith arrived has proved it. An upgrade 

Bottom line- a very poor window leaving us with little to spend in January but obvious needs in the starting XI. We need another goal scoring striker and another CDM to cover Normann when injured. (As Sorenson can’t buy a game for some reason) 

 

 

 

You make some fair points but all a little ‘glass half empty’ , and Williams was a good signing imho

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

DCB, your village wants its idiot back….

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

9 minutes ago, Deptford Yellow said:

You make some fair points but all a little ‘glass half empty’ , and Williams was a good signing imho

Williams is a decent player - but with hindsight I wish we had used the Sargent money plus loan option to get a premium quality striker for the season. Lack of goals is what worries me most 

[TheGunnShow 5,926]

Anyone who vaguely thinks a tricky winger in Rashica is a direct replacement for a playmaker who comes off a wing in Buendia needs their bumps feeling.

Edited December 2, 2021 by TheGunnShow

[hogesar 9,615]

17 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

One quote and you can’t let it go. You have a problem - try and change the record. For the umpteenth time the signing of Kabak and Normann made me much happier at the time. Hence the quote. But my overall message as any fair minded person will remember was that letting emi go and the loss of Skipp was catastrophic and that we weren’t looking any better than the year before. 

Hahaha I'm not the one who called it our "best window ever" and ever since creates new threads pretending you never said that and acting like you knew the signings were no good.

Also, our new signings were part of getting us 8 points from 4 games.

You've then picked a game they're not playing in to criticise those signings.

You're barking.

[hogesar 9,615]

23 minutes ago, king canary said:

Feels an odd game to try and draw that conclusion from.

Our three 'biggest' signings of the window either weren't available or had only just returned to the bench after a spell out with glandular fever. 

Sure, Sargent looked really poor on Tuesday but Tzolis was only making his second start and maybe deserves a bit more patience.

Apologies, I didn't read your reply first. I've essentially said the same thing.

Also, whilst I don't think Sargent is a particularly special player, he was a big part of beating Southampton and his pressing / work-rate could well be influential to us throughout the season (preferably, from the bench).

 

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

We'll review the quality of Webber's work at the end of the season when all the players have had a fair chance to develop further under Smith and Shakey's influence.

At the moment I'm seeing two really good signings and one extremely poor. They will all get better, just a case of by how much and how quickly. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Anyone who vaguely thinks a tricky winger in Rashica is a direct replacement for a playmaker who comes off a wing in Buendia needs their bumps feeling.

Anyone who thinks a wide right player arriving to replace a wide right player leaving isn’t a replacement needs their bumps feeling…

a replacement doesn’t mean you opted for same type of wide right player. But it is the replacement none the less. Who else was it? 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Anyone who thinks a wide right player arriving to replace a wide right player leaving isn’t a replacement needs their bumps feeling…

a replacement doesn’t mean you opted for same type of wide right player. But it is the replacement none the less. Who else was it? 

This is undeniable. They even wear the same shirt number. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Anyone who vaguely thinks a tricky winger in Rashica is a direct replacement for a playmaker who comes off a wing in Buendia needs their bumps feeling.

To be fair its not like Bunedia has done much in the Prem. Did he keep us up last time we were in the Prem? No. Is he doing much with Villa? No. If anything Villa fans are saying he's shocking and joking about wanting a refund!

[TheGunnShow 5,926]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Anyone who thinks a wide right player arriving to replace a wide right player leaving isn’t a replacement needs their bumps feeling…

a replacement doesn’t mean you opted for same type of wide right player. But it is the replacement none the less. Who else was it? 

Except Rashica plays on the left as well, and is probably more experienced on the left. Also, if you're opting for different types of player, then by definition they're not really direct replacements as you're changing the style of play.

[hepphep 175]

I have to actually disagree. I think many will come good, but as EPL is likely the highest tempo league of all the top leagues, it really takes some time to learn its tricks.

Kabak - Good taking ball forward, and we need ball playing defenders. However, can also take some unnecessary risks due to that. Would not write him off yet, but have to compete really hard for his spot. Of course, question is if we need four central defenders now as Omobamidele has shown he could do it in this level as well. However, we are only one injury away from being in trouble if he would not be here.

Sargent - Having real trouble with finishing and the first touch can be awful. However,  his work rate is really important when we are pressing high (which we have often seen lately). He is actually pretty good finding positions off the ball. Currently he is a role player. Sort of improved version of Stiepi and we do need him in team (hard to think who would replace him in pressing if we would not have him). Also in his age, there is good chance that he will improve his weaknesses in years to come as well.

Tzolis - I think Farke was right when he told that he is one that is more to future. He has some flair and eagerness to get to the scoring positions. However, currently it seems that he cannot keep up with tempo that is required in this level. I expect that he was bought more for development and to play some part as sub already and might well fill that slot during season.

Gilmour - I was quite strong critic of his early this season, mainly due to the fact that he didn't seem to be willing to put himself into the game and do backtracking and such. However, my opinion has changed some amount. However, he is not that defensive midfielder that we have in Normann and now that he has to cover that position, he is clearly not playing with his strengths. I think he might prove very useful player when he has Normann to support him.

Rashica - Had a slow start. Once again, adjusting to tempo and requirements of EPL is something that takes time. Good in pressing, very hard working. Now also starts to look real threat when challenging opponents in attacking zone. Main complaint of him is his bad final decision making, often throwing totally useless balls in the box. However, this happens most often when he becomes tired, so I think it is something he is now learning to change in his game and keeps on reverting mostly to it when tired. I think he is already really important player.

Normann - Excellent. One of the most important players we have already. Great long range passing and really excellent defensive positioning. Not just decent EPL player, but really good one. If we can keep him for permanent, it's a steal.

Gunn - Not really impressed of what I've seen from him. Difficulties playing with feet and not very convincing otherwise either. Would be worried how he can manage if Krul would get injured. On the other hand, we have been in same situation before with McGovern so time will tell.

PLM - Not really sure what I think of him. He is sort of all around midfielder who has his moments but not really standing out with anything. I consider him as decent squad player, which is likely what he is meant to be. Does not do much wrong when playing so good in filling the position when required. Even though failed to score from his chance against Newcastle, he did so well to create the chance for himself.

Williams - Young guy who has good and bad days. I think they are quite evenly competing that position with Giannoulis at the moment. I really like his attitude and his fearless thrusts forward. However, he seems pretty limited when we control the ball. But I think quite often we will give possession to opponents and counter press, in which case he is likely better choice than Giannoulis so in that sense he is best option to that position.

Most of them are not some top level EPL players (at least for now) that is for sure. However, most of them have earned their position in starting lineup for a reason. It is really hard to see who would take their position if we would not have them (in most cases). Hiring ready made EPL player who could be considered someone who could step into starting eleven of top 10 teams is extremely hard and expensive. So expensive that it just is out of our budget. We would likely need to pay similar prices for them than what we got for selling Emi. I actually think that mostly the summer window seems like pretty promising for both short and long term. Yes, there are weaknesses on most of the signings, but they are improving and there is reason why most of them is getting big minutes.

 

[7HAR1980 102]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Newcastle was, for me, a game which summed up how had the transfer window was. 

Kabak looked decent on paper but is currently not an upgrade on Hanley or Gibson. 

Normann the exception to the rule. A great signing. We need him back.  Upgrade on ageing Tettey

Sargent seems a total waste of money. He’s young and might develop but nowhere near ready for premiership football. Not an upgrade on hugill - who wasn’t good enough! 

Same with Tzolis who looks raw and in need of a loan- I think Onel would have given us more.

Gilmour is beloved of the media but looks lightweight and ineffective a lot of times. I think leitner was as good had we not alienated him 

Rashica is starting to show quality - but had big boots to fill in Emi. A good player but not an upgrade on what we had last year therefore.

Gunn- cost a pretty penny for a reserve goalkeeper. I think fans would have been outraged if he wasn’t linked to club by his dad. Arguably not an upgrade on Nyland.

PLM- decent signing but championship quality. Not an upgrade on Vrancic - similar quality but less flair. 

Brandon Williams- waste of a loan. We have Gianoullis who is just as good and no striker back up??! 
 

Dean Smith- I was attacked for suggesting Farke had taken us as far as he could, but the change since Smith arrived has proved it. An upgrade 

Bottom line- a very poor window leaving us with little to spend in January but obvious needs in the starting XI. We need another goal scoring striker and another CDM to cover Normann when injured. (As Sorenson can’t buy a game for some reason) 

 

 

 

Disagree. And you don't deserve an explanation because you're an end of bell.

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

To be fair its not like Bunedia has done much in the Prem. Did he keep us up last time we were in the Prem? No. Is he doing much with Villa? No. If anything Villa fans are saying he's shocking and joking about wanting a refund!

I watched their game last night and while he made some mistakes, I can assure you, he's a very good footballer, even at this level. His biggest problem at Villa is that he isn't Jack Grealish. Much like, as this thread shows, Milot Rashica suffers from not being Emi Buendia, despite both comparisons being apples and grapefruits. 

[1902 1,167]

My issue with this thread is that you have basically said the same thing after every disappointing result this season. Then you are telling others to change the record. 

Maybe you could do a review of your opinions every 18 games to a) give the players a chance to show something other than temporary form and b) give this board a rest from the same debate. 

None of us think this window was perfect, but in my 30 years on this planet, I never have seen one that was. Half these players have hardly got a look in yet under the new regime, so it's barely worth discussing a player like Kabak, Gunn or even PLM and Tzolis at this stage.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Saying someone is signed as a replacement is different to saying they are identical players. Clearly he was signed as a Buendia replacement - that was the gap left by his departure 

Do you actually watch games - even on the TV? 🤦‍♂️

To say that Rashica was a Buendia replacement is amazing - or perhaps I have just forgotten all Buendia's ball-carrying runs down the left wing? 🥴

[Robert N. LiM 4,238]

I have seen lot of criticism of our business in the summer, some fair, some a little harsh imo.

What I haven't seen are any convincing suggestions of who we should have bought instead. 

I think it's very likely that the £20 million signings that people have expressed a desire for (with their accompanying wages) simply wouldn't have come to a club who were favourites to go down. I suspect we were in the market for £10 million players for a reason. And if you are in that market, better to buy potential, since the finished article at that price isn't good enough for the Prem. 

[The Bristol Nest 513]

38 minutes ago, hepphep said:

I have to actually disagree. I think many will come good, but as EPL is likely the highest tempo league of all the top leagues, it really takes some time to learn its tricks.

Kabak - Good taking ball forward, and we need ball playing defenders. However, can also take some unnecessary risks due to that. Would not write him off yet, but have to compete really hard for his spot. Of course, question is if we need four central defenders now as Omobamidele has shown he could do it in this level as well. However, we are only one injury away from being in trouble if he would not be here.

Sargent - Having real trouble with finishing and the first touch can be awful. However,  his work rate is really important when we are pressing high (which we have often seen lately). He is actually pretty good finding positions off the ball. Currently he is a role player. Sort of improved version of Stiepi and we do need him in team (hard to think who would replace him in pressing if we would not have him). Also in his age, there is good chance that he will improve his weaknesses in years to come as well.

Tzolis - I think Farke was right when he told that he is one that is more to future. He has some flair and eagerness to get to the scoring positions. However, currently it seems that he cannot keep up with tempo that is required in this level. I expect that he was bought more for development and to play some part as sub already and might well fill that slot during season.

Gilmour - I was quite strong critic of his early this season, mainly due to the fact that he didn't seem to be willing to put himself into the game and do backtracking and such. However, my opinion has changed some amount. However, he is not that defensive midfielder that we have in Normann and now that he has to cover that position, he is clearly not playing with his strengths. I think he might prove very useful player when he has Normann to support him.

Rashica - Had a slow start. Once again, adjusting to tempo and requirements of EPL is something that takes time. Good in pressing, very hard working. Now also starts to look real threat when challenging opponents in attacking zone. Main complaint of him is his bad final decision making, often throwing totally useless balls in the box. However, this happens most often when he becomes tired, so I think it is something he is now learning to change in his game and keeps on reverting mostly to it when tired. I think he is already really important player.

Normann - Excellent. One of the most important players we have already. Great long range passing and really excellent defensive positioning. Not just decent EPL player, but really good one. If we can keep him for permanent, it's a steal.

Gunn - Not really impressed of what I've seen from him. Difficulties playing with feet and not very convincing otherwise either. Would be worried how he can manage if Krul would get injured. On the other hand, we have been in same situation before with McGovern so time will tell.

PLM - Not really sure what I think of him. He is sort of all around midfielder who has his moments but not really standing out with anything. I consider him as decent squad player, which is likely what he is meant to be. Does not do much wrong when playing so good in filling the position when required. Even though failed to score from his chance against Newcastle, he did so well to create the chance for himself.

Williams - Young guy who has good and bad days. I think they are quite evenly competing that position with Giannoulis at the moment. I really like his attitude and his fearless thrusts forward. However, he seems pretty limited when we control the ball. But I think quite often we will give possession to opponents and counter press, in which case he is likely better choice than Giannoulis so in that sense he is best option to that position.

Most of them are not some top level EPL players (at least for now) that is for sure. However, most of them have earned their position in starting lineup for a reason. It is really hard to see who would take their position if we would not have them (in most cases). Hiring ready made EPL player who could be considered someone who could step into starting eleven of top 10 teams is extremely hard and expensive. So expensive that it just is out of our budget. We would likely need to pay similar prices for them than what we got for selling Emi. I actually think that mostly the summer window seems like pretty promising for both short and long term. Yes, there are weaknesses on most of the signings, but they are improving and there is reason why most of them is getting big minutes.

 

That.