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Norfolk  Dan

Players collapsing suddenly

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What on earth is happening? Just this week I have read of 4 players either playing or in training collapsing. 

Then I just checked Wikipedia and player on pitch deaths are up over 100% on the yearly average for 2021 and we still have 1 month left. That is well in the area of being statistically significant. 

I just can't recall anything like it, from a game we love, just what is happening?  I pray we don't have to witness such. 

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They are pushing these players physically harder than we ever had before. I suspect this extra strain reveals conditions they might not know about etc

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Lots more sprints in the game than ever before, a lot of players who aren't natural super athletes have to train and play like them or the game just passes them by. Notice how this usually occurs more often at the higher levels. 

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Saw Fleck go down the other day and was thinking the same thing.  There's been a lot of sports scientists in place for a number of years now,m So I can't believe they're being pushed to the point of being rushed to hospital.

Could be the jab, could be less break and the football calendar being twisted up, could just be some players mentally stressed with the affects of covid and them carrying out through it without a proper 'down time' period.

Who knows.  Definitely seems to be a high occurrence.

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The introduction of numerous footballs into the game means there are no natural breaks. The moment a ball goes into the stands another one is produced for play and the game continues at the same frantic pace.

The few seconds retrieving a ball was enough to slow the game down enough to give the players the necessary breathers. 

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Can we say it definitely is statistically significant? I know 100% is a big rise but when the numbers are small to start with they can be skewed very easily by one unrepresentative period? Do we know what the actual numbers are rather than percentages?

 

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Perhaps we should stop the game so Tropical Linda can give them a quick rubdown 

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8 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Do we know what the actual numbers are rather than percentages?

According to this:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

8 in 2018

7 in 2019

3 in 2020

14 in 2021

Maybe due to the lack of football in 2020 it just delayed those with underlying conditions?

Quite a mordib subject reading through those causes, it's a hell of a rise for sure.

Edited by Google Bot
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21 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

According to this:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

8 in 2018

7 in 2019

3 in 2020

14 in 2021

Maybe due to the lack of football in 2020 it just delayed those with underlying conditions?

Quite a mordib subject reading through those causes, it's a hell of a rise for sure.

It's definitely a jump, but not a trend. A good scientist would say we need more data - and more funding.

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6 minutes ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

It's definitely a jump, but not a trend. A good scientist would say we need more data - and more funding.

It's also possibly a reporting bias as well. Cases listed in the Wikipedia article above included a 54 year old. With increased focus, comes more familiarity and more deaths attributed in the public mind to football.

Two of those who died were goalkeepers, whose deaths probably can't be attributed to anything that happened on the pitch as such.

Edited by 1902
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Instead of the jab which is think is extremely unlikely, I think it's much more likely to be the result of either covid itself's effect on peoples cardiovascular system (whether illness was severe/asymptomatic or anything in between) or a result of fitness levels dropping significantly during lockdown and people including athletes in general being slightly less active while football itself then suddenly started up again and carried on immediately at the same pace and intensity.

You can't really train for match fitness and games just suddenly starting again in 2020 and in a congested fixture list right after a period of inactivity to finish the season followed by a short summer break is imo has probably stressed out, worsened or damaged some players with undiagnosed underlying conditions' cardiovasuclar system and that's what's lead to there being more instances of collapsing this year

Edited by Christoph Stiepermann
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Is the strain on the body that occurs during a football match any worse than sports like tennis and squash which are constantly requiring players to undertake bursts of short sprints? I don’t know about squash, but tennis games can last far more than 90 minutes.

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5 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Is the strain on the body that occurs during a football match any worse than sports like tennis and squash which are constantly requiring players to undertake bursts of short sprints? I don’t know about squash, but tennis games can last far more than 90 minutes.

Theres this, and football is played by a huge number of young people at the 'elite' level. More than perhaps any other sport due to its ubiquitous nature. 

If we say that the top tennis players make up only 400 players and the top cricketers only 1000 or so across the world then it's not surprising that tragic accidents such as these look more prevalent in football.

When Phil Hughes died through an unlucky strike to the back of the head by a cricket ball, it was seen as essentially just unlucky. However as there are only 150 or so players playing test cricket it's not really a fair point of comparison.

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31 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Is the strain on the body that occurs during a football match any worse than sports like tennis and squash which are constantly requiring players to undertake bursts of short sprints? I don’t know about squash, but tennis games can last far more than 90 minutes.

Sprints in tennis matches are about 5m, in football they can easily be ten times that.

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Anti-vaxxers were warbling in about this the other day as proof it’s jab-related, but it is far more likely to be after effects of the illness if it’s linked at all.

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3 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I assume you were joking but just in case you weren't he's confirmed he hasn't been vaccinated yet so it can't be that.

https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/football/wigan-athletic-striker-charlie-wyke-collapse-not-covid-vaccine-related-3472143

Just in case it needs saying, the vast majority of those in intensive care and at risk of death or severe illness with Covid are unvaccinated. The rest are either elderly, with significant underlying conditions, or both. 

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Sprints in tennis matches are about 5m, in football they can easily be ten times that.

True, but in terms of the strain put on the body, especially the heart, it’s the stop/start nature which is the problem. Ten 100 metre sprints are far more difficult  than one 1km run.

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19 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Just in case it needs saying, the vast majority of those in intensive care and at risk of death or severe illness with Covid are unvaccinated. The rest are either elderly, with significant underlying conditions, or both. 

Nuff Said, The current trend is only approx 1 in 3 covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated and apparently this figure is falling. Although this may not be a surprise considering circa 90% are vaccinated, let's face it, if we had 100% vaccinated, 100% of covid hospitalizations would be vaccinate. 

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7 minutes ago, Ray said:

Nuff Said, The current trend is only approx 1 in 3 covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated and apparently this figure is falling. Although this may not be a surprise considering circa 90% are vaccinated, let's face it, if we had 100% vaccinated, 100% of covid hospitalizations would be vaccinate. 

@Ray I’d be interested to see your source for that. Also, I was talking about intensive care, not hospitalisations so what is the proportion there?

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46 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Just in case it needs saying, the vast majority of those in intensive care and at risk of death or severe illness with Covid are unvaccinated. The rest are either elderly, with significant underlying conditions, or both. 

Not sure you're right there Nuff Said. Here in Ireland, Covid-related hospitalisations are roughly half & half between vaccinated & unvaccinated. 

As a related aside, the vaccine is reportedly only effective on about 90% of recipients. 

Edit: I see you refer to intensive care as opposed to general admissions. Perhaps you're right there.

Edited by paddycanary

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4 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

Can we say it definitely is statistically significant? I know 100% is a big rise but when the numbers are small to start with they can be skewed very easily by one unrepresentative period? Do we know what the actual numbers are rather than percentages?

 

I will do the calculations when I'm back on the laptop. But in simple numbers. 

2021 - 14 

2020 - 3

2019 - 7

2018 - 8 

2017 - 10

2016 - 12

2015 - 10

2014 - 7

2013 - 10 

It goes all the way back to 1889 so will take a while to input the data. 

I will search all the data for collapses. Just strangely so much in a week got me thinking. But more than anything else, I don't want to see this at a game at all. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

 

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1 hour ago, Norfolk Dan said:

I will do the calculations when I'm back on the laptop. But in simple numbers. 

2021 - 14 

2020 - 3

2019 - 7

2018 - 8 

2017 - 10

2016 - 12

2015 - 10

2014 - 7

2013 - 10 

It goes all the way back to 1889 so will take a while to input the data. 

I will search all the data for collapses. Just strangely so much in a week got me thinking. But more than anything else, I don't want to see this at a game at all. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

We're not just talking about players who have died though are we,.

Adama Traore, John Fleck, Charlie Wyke, and some other bloke I can't remember the name of in the past 24 hours(ish), its an epidemic.

Then you have Aguero suddenly retiring with heart problems, what on earth is going on - it is bizarre.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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11 hours ago, Ray said:

Nuff Said, The current trend is only approx 1 in 3 covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated and apparently this figure is falling. Although this may not be a surprise considering circa 90% are vaccinated, let's face it, if we had 100% vaccinated, 100% of covid hospitalizations would be vaccinate. 

"shows that of 40 000 patients with covid-19 who were admitted to hospital between December 2020 and July 2021 a total of 33 496 (84%) had not been vaccinated. " BMJ..

i suspect there is an element of self fulfilling hysteria involved here.  If there was anything in this then the figures would be far higher. As they are, it is as others have stated above, a case of making the figures fit the case. People are looking for something that fits.

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13 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

@Ray I’d be interested to see your source for that. Also, I was talking about intensive care, not hospitalisations so what is the proportion there?

Nuff Said,

I have lost my link to the data requested, however whilst conducting some research I came across the following,

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

What is interesting from this data is that in terms of deaths involving covid, it appears you are less likely (as a %) to die if you are unvaccinated.

If we take weeks 37 and 38 as examples (the last 2 weeks data available and I haven’t compared all the other weeks), and assuming I am understanding the data correctly, then the number of deaths involving covid of unvaccinated people represents 0.00151% and 0.00124% respectively of the unvaccinated population, (e.g. week 38 = 95 from 7,637,511), whereas the number of deaths involving covid of vaccinated people represents 0.00161 and 0.0015 respectively of the vaccinated population. (e.g. week 38 = 444 from 29,509,257),  Therefore there is a between 6% and 20% greater risk of dying with covid if you have been double vaccinated than if you are unvaccinated.

Makes you wonder doesn’t it, and, assuming my maths and understanding are correct, why is this phenomena not reported in the media?

For the purposes of this exercise and in the interest of time I have ignored the 1st Dose data, furthermore this data is from 1st Jan through 24th Sept 2021, I am currently unable to find data for October and November, if it even exists?

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46 minutes ago, Ray said:

 

Makes you wonder doesn’t it, and, assuming my maths and understanding are correct, why is this phenomena not reported in the media?

 

If you are between 0-15 you are unvaccinated but unlikely to develop any serious illness although children are being hospitalised. In the date range you've posted only over 40s would have had 1-2 vaccinations and no boosters.

I have a sister working in ITU and she says is is almost exclusively unvaccinated adults who are very ill and dying.

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3 minutes ago, Thumbbass said:

If you are between 0-15 you are unvaccinated but unlikely to develop any serious illness although children are being hospitalised. In the date range you've posted only over 40s would have had 1-2 vaccinations and no boosters.

I have a sister working in ITU and she says is is almost exclusively unvaccinated adults who are very ill and dying.

Hi Thumbbass,

I fully understand there are lies, damn lies, etc. and of course the elder generation are more likely to have been double jabbed therefore are more likely to die due to their age and this perhaps skews the figures, however I found it interesting.  I would much rather this type of information was made public with explanations as to why this is the case than the data be 'swept under the carpet'.  I suspect the age data is within the report and if someone has the time and will to interpret it I would be interested to see the results.  Unfortunately although I may have the will, I do not have the time, well I have as much time in a day as anyone else, I just choose to use it differently, which may actually be a true test and reflection of my will I guess!!!

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