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Sjb

How long will it be until we moan about hoofball

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Saturday was refreshing. Tippy tappy works great if you have better players than the rest. But Saturday showed hoofball can be just as effective. But I hope we don't become a lump it long side. If it keep us up this season great. But next season hopefully we'll be better equipped for what ever league we're in. 

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I noticed on Saturday the same people around me that were moaning under Farke that we p**s about with it at the back and that we should just “clear it”, were the same people that yesterday were moaning that we were just hoofing it “aimlessly up there”

You gotta laugh really.

Edited by Coneys Knee
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There's a difference between hoofball and clearing it long out of defense when under pressure, we're good enough to build from the back but not good enough to play around teams when they are pressing us high and closing off all the passing lanes out of our defense, we lost the ball like this constantly under Farke. What we did was mix it up a bit so Southampton couldn't always just press us into mistakes.

 

I'd class hoofball as more an alternative way to build attacks, so if we were hitting it long and high every time even when not under pressure then that would be brainless hoofball and would be problematic but I'd argue we kept the core of our principals but just mixed it up a bit and were more dynamic in our attacking phases than we usually are and rightly so, we're too easy to play against just trying to do the same thing over and over again. You need to be at the very least a Leicester level team to always keep the ball on the deck and be effective. If people start moaning when we sensibly clear the danger then I'll be pretty disappointed but it wouldn't surprise me, there are quite a few who I get the sense don't mind losing as long as we try to play pretty football all the time, which is their choice of course, but I'd rather we tried to win first and foremost. I get much more out of seeing us create chances/win tackles and get at teams than I do watching neat passing patterns. 

Edited by Christoph Stiepermann

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I’ve seen some serious hoofball over the years. Wimbledon, Pullis , Cambridge United under John Beck . 
 

We have a very long way to go before this becomes proper hoofball. 
 

We didn’t kick the ball into channels . We didn’t drop looking for restarts. We just passed the ball forward quicker which at times were longer passes. We didn’t by pass the midfield - MOTD featured the ball going through Gilmour . 
 

Anyone moaning about hoofball should have a look on YouTube . There is plenty on there . 
 

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As I have said many, many times before. It takes both types of approaches in balance to beat teams. The best example for me, this season, of balance was in the cup Vs Bournemouth. But the principles are really simple.

Pass out from the back when you have the time and space. If teams are pushing up on you, play out from the back a couple of times, then hit one long. Then do that until they drop off you. Then you have the space and time to pass out from the back again, so do that. Stick to one approach and you become predictable and easy to combat and 2nd guess. This is the reason Man City are still looking for a target man as are Chelsea.

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I'll always complain about aimlessly hitting the ball long the majority of the time. Passing should always be the default option. If teams overcommit to the press then going longer becomes higher percentage and higher reward, but we can gain a significant advantage by passing through congested areas.

It's about intelligently reading the situation and making better choices. We've been quite negative for much of this season. We'll only win by trusting our ability and going for it.

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1 hour ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I’ve seen some serious hoofball over the years. Wimbledon, Pullis , Cambridge United under John Beck . 
 

We have a very long way to go before this becomes proper hoofball. 
 

We didn’t kick the ball into channels . We didn’t drop looking for restarts. We just passed the ball forward quicker which at times were longer passes. We didn’t by pass the midfield - MOTD featured the ball going through Gilmour . 
 

Anyone moaning about hoofball should have a look on YouTube . There is plenty on there . 
 

Completely agree… there’s a difference on long ball and occasionally not being afraid to put it up there like we did yesterday .  It was also so refreshing not to see krul have the two centre backs split at each goal kick to play it short, only to invite pressure onto us.  We need to be free now to mix it up … too many goals conceded have come from our own gks and defensive throw ins.  A lot more streetwise in approach rather than moaning about hoof ball I would say 

Edited by CardiffCanary

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The issue that concerns me is that the vast majority of the time Krul was just smashing it long on restarts with McLean asked to go up and challenge the opposition centre-halves. 

I very much hope that was temporary measure for this game with lack of training time etc. Because carry on like that and it won't be very long at all before the critics come out.

We were lucky to win yesterday. We were truly dreadful in the first half, probably the worst half I've seen all season. We did much better in the second half and managed to notch from a set piece but I felt both of our goals were keeper errors and Southampton should have been 4-1 up at half-time. 

Plenty of positives in the second half though and I think Rashica is gradually improving game by game. Both centre-halves produced some great blocks too.

The transition away from Farkeball is going to be a bumpy one though and we are going to have play much, much better to continue this mini-run of good results. 

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1 hour ago, Coneys Knee said:

I noticed on Saturday the same people around me that were moaning under Farke that we p**s about with it at the back and that we should just “clear it”, were the same people that yesterday were moaning that we were just hoofing it “aimlessly up there”

You gotta laugh really.

Exactly the same where I sit..... I guess some people just like to moan 😁

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If it keeps us up then hoof away. We can get back to tippy tappy when we've got another season of PL funds to splash on better players. Winning ugly is fine as long as we win, something we never seemed capable of doing under Farke

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The thing for me is that under Farke this season we had been resorting to hoofing it up to Sargent which was when I decided he’d lost his way.

 Also my phone has started autocorrecting Farke . How soon they forget...

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I started before half time. We were under the pump and just lumping it aimlessly forward just added pressure as it, put simply, was just giving possession back to Southampton. It was rubbish.

Fair play, hooking Cantwell for Sargent and trying to pressurise higher up the pitch helped second half, but at half time I was definitely of the initial opinion that it would still be a very long season and still a tough watch.

I was elated to get the win, a great start for Dean Smith and consecutive wins can only breed confidence. The hope is that as he gets to grips with the squad that he can implement more of his ideas and make a difference. First half on Saturday it looked like we’d thrown 4+ years in the bin and we were utterly awful. But we did show fight, the players took instruction and we were definitely the better side second half. That said, Southampton must have walked off at full time wondering how they’d got nothing from that game.

Still, there was effort, commitment (see some of the blocks! The one Hanley blocked with his head would have put plenty of players out for the count!) and they got the job done. It would be unfair of me to judge Smith on one 45 minutes and two days training, so while I’m not throwing my hands up in despair (I might have been at half time), he’s also nothing like the second coming just yet. He needs time to analyse, judge, select and implement.

I think he may well get there, they seem a solid duo and based on the second half, the players are receptive to what he/they has/have to say.

Categorically though, while mixing it up might prove beneficial as opposed to solidly sticking to one methodology, pumping long balls with Pukki, Cantwell and Rashica as your forward three is, was and will always be disastrous. 

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As we saw on Saturday there is more than one way to win a football match and you have to play within your players limitations.

As proved many times, in the PL we do not have the players that are capable of playing tippy tappy for 90 minutes without making several disasterous and costly mistakes.

When you concede goals on a regular basis, and lose matches, because you give the ball to the opposition in or around your penalty area then you need to stop doing that.

Under Farke it looked as though the players had been brainwashed into playing like that no matter what the situation.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Sjb said:

Saturday was refreshing. Tippy tappy works great if you have better players than the rest. But Saturday showed hoofball can be just as effective. But I hope we don't become a lump it long side. If it keep us up this season great. But next season hopefully we'll be better equipped for what ever league we're in. 

That wasn’t hoofball. It just wasn’t encouraging teams to constantly put us under pressure at the back while our centre backs are passing it between themselves and then it ends with Krul panicking and booting it out for a throw in 

Edited by Dr Greenthumb

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In th 'olden days' when Charlie Hughes was Technical Director (or whatever) at the F.A., 'hoofball' was the #1 option for creating P.O.M.O.S. (positions of maximum opportunity). I was pleased to see the end of tippy-tappy back four play 'cos our lads just aren't very good at it.  That was Farke's main problem (and I say that as a Farke fan). 

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55 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Makes you wonder how Billy Gilmour was MOM if we were playing hoofball.

The basis of that award? A Twitter poll.

For the second season in a row, it gets hijacked by fans of bigger teams.

 

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Winning Football is what we need style comes after that ! 

a Struggling side can not afford to be worried about what gets the Win ,

I am sure smith and Shakey would love us to play like Barcelona or Man City but we have not got the players 

 

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As others have said, it's about mixing it up so you don't become predictable, like a fast bowler bowling the occasional bouncer so the batter can't just camp out on the front foot.

I thought that on Saturday we looked like a team in a PL relegation battle. Some quality, a lot more fight. That's what we need. There were times under Farke when we looked ever so pretty but embarrassingly easy to play against. I loved that we tried it, but there's enough evidence that it doesn't work at our level.

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I can see that some may think it was hoofball. To me, the difference was we weren't obsessed with playing it around in our area. Krul was obviously told, we concede so many goals of our own making because we keep the ball for so long in our third. Pep can do that with his billion pound squad but we have to cut our cloth accordingly.

It was a kind of reset to me. First half we were playing the wrong system with the wrong personnel. Second half, no matter whether we played it long, along the flanks or tippy tappy passing, we dominated the game. And it was exciting. And to me, as long as its exciting, I have no complaints about the style.

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I find it hard to believe anyone watching that first half could call it anything other than hoofball, it was the worst half of football I have seen in years. It was aimless lumping forwards over and over and over again, only once or twice did we actually get the ball to stick by picking up the second ball. I genuinely don't think we strung more than 2-3 passes together at the back before we sent it long. It was rubbish.

But perhaps credit to Southampton who played with such intensity it stopped us playing from the back, I still thought we could've done more though (proven by the second half). We were immensely fortunate to score an equaliser in our only chance in that first 45, whilst also benefiting from a very wasteful opposition. 

Thankfully the second half we were totally transformed and managed to keep Southampton on the backfoot for nearly all of it with much better and higher pressing. I don't really recall much in the way of hoofball second half, a couple of nice lofted passes to Sargent on the wing and to McLean - actually targeting someone and with degrees of success - and the odd clearance but all to be expected. We definitely deserved to win that second half, but Southampton can count themselves unlucky they weren't 1 or 2 goals up after the first 45.

Hopefully it is the second half version of NCFC that turns up every week because I am not sure I'd be happy watching whatever the **** you would call that first half...

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Took me about 10 mins to complain...on Saturday 😂

However, I was very pleased with that second half. Good to see us allow Gilmour to play a bit. We were chasing shadows first half! 

 

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17 hours ago, Sjb said:

Saturday was refreshing. Tippy tappy works great if you have better players than the rest. But Saturday showed hoofball can be just as effective. But I hope we don't become a lump it long side. If it keep us up this season great. But next season hopefully we'll be better equipped for what ever league we're in. 

Hoofball, I don't mind as long as we win. Better than tippy tappy and losing the ball and having 0 shots on goal.

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