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17 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

This is a brilliant comparison. Obviously not at Kuyt's level, but a really good way to understand what he could bring to the team 

 

Dirk Kuyt was a rapier. Josh Sargent is a broadsword.

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If Sargent had the strikers instinct of Ssay Pukki then I he would not be playing for Norwich he would at a top end European club and be a regular for the USA.

like many players before him you have to take the rough with the smooth. For example if Iwan Roberts, Rob Newman and Wes had pace they would have used Norwich as a stepping stone. 

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Sargent is a good player.  At Werder he scored some cracking goals and he linked well with Rashica.  A bit of confidence like you get after wins and good performances will do wonders for both lads.

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Everyone loves a trier, and Sargent is probably the best big, ginger, slightly clumsy trier we’ve had since the Doc ♥️.

Edited by Nuff Said
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Any player with the ability to play a significant part in changing the direction of a Premier League game the way Sargent did on Saturday is good to have in the squad, is a good signing and will prove to be of worth.

We still need a back-up striker, striker (à la Ashton?) next window, though. Unless of course he finds his shooting boots under Dean Smith.

Adam Idah seems destined to be a nearly man and should be loaned/sold in January in order to help finance the transfer kitty, imo.

 

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13 hours ago, Bournemouth Mafiosa said:

Spot on assessment. JS seems to be everything Cantwell isn’t - humble, hardworking, and a team player. Really looking forward to him honing his skills over the next few games.

Cantwell is incredibly hard working. Even in the early part of the season when he did play under Farke he'd covered more ground than the rest of our playing squad.

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20 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Cantwell is incredibly hard working. Even in the early part of the season when he did play under Farke he'd covered more ground than the rest of our playing squad.

Which kinda shows that statistics do not show the true picture. They can be used to manipulate whatever you want them to say.

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7 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Which kinda shows that statistics do not show the true picture. They can be used to manipulate whatever you want them to say.

Agreed. But sometimes they can also be used to disprove people seeing what they want to see due to their own pre-meditated prejudice.

 

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17 hours ago, 1902 said:

Did you ever actually watch Grant Holt play the game of football? He was technically deficient, sometimes his first touch was shocking. He was also a brilliant player for us because teams found him hard to combat and because he pressed and harassed defensive lines into making their own technical errors.

Sometimes you don't have to have fantastic close control and touch. You need to be a strong workhorse, with a good footballing brain who puts himself about. 

Also, "good at pressing" is not a feature of the game that I associated with RVW. I also would argue if it's the one trait you have, it's the one least likely to make you look like a passenger in modern football.

I will be delighted if Sargent turns out to be 75% of the player Grant Holt was, and hope that you are correct.  It is probably fair to say we haven't seen the best of him yet.

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On 20/11/2021 at 17:28, Branston Pickle said:

Good stuff - Josh did everything that Cantwell didn’t manage to do.  

That is a bit unfair on Todd as he is a different type of player, and had not started. game for over 2 months thanks to DF. Todd will get back to his best I am sure.

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11 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

That is a bit unfair on Todd as he is a different type of player, and had not started. game for over 2 months thanks to DF. Todd will get back to his best I am sure.

I actually like TC as a player and think he has a lot to offer. But his performance Saturday was terrible and I'd doubt if he was even sweating when he walked in at half time. 1st half we were under the cosh and he actually backed away from challenges, didn't jump for headers, jogged and generally looked lost/disinterested etc. That wasn't about fitness. I'm not going to be too critical about him losing the ball because he was at least trying to make something happen - and that can be attributed to rustiness, but you cannot play in midfield and be as passive as that. 

A few seasons ago he'd have been doubling up on players with hernandez/Lewis winning the ball and playing it back out in nice little triangles even from our own byline. An absolute pleasure to watch when he's up for it but looks a shadow at the moment. You can have a bad game technically but if you put the effort in physically - which everyone can and is totally in their own control -  you can walk away with some credit, he did neither. Sargent was the epitome of endeavour and physicality over technicality (although I don't think he's bad at all).

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1 hour ago, Penelope Catchpole said:

I will be delighted if Sargent turns out to be 75% of the player Grant Holt was, and hope that you are correct.  It is probably fair to say we haven't seen the best of him yet.

Or 50% of the player the Ginger Pele was.

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On 20/11/2021 at 18:34, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I said when we signed him that he reminds me of Dirk Kuyt, and whilst Sargent is clearly not as good as Kuyt, I still feel that's a decent comparison, despite a certain someone mocking me for it.

On 21/11/2021 at 13:52, Robert N. LiM said:

This is a brilliant comparison. Obviously not at Kuyt's level, but a really good way to understand what he could bring to the team 

You could argue that Sargent is precisely where Dirk Kuyt was at his age.... 11 goals in 60 games for Utrecht in his first two seasons, and several years away from being good enough for his senior Holland debut. 

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3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You could argue that Sargent is precisely where Dirk Kuyt was at his age.... 11 goals in 60 games for Utrecht in his first two seasons, and several years away from being good enough for his senior Holland debut. 

Any data on Kuyt's left foot at the same age? 

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9 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

Any data on Kuyt's left foot at the same age? 

Yes,it had 5 toes 😉

.........I'll get me coat 😳

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8 hours ago, Pugin said:

Dirk Kuyt was a rapier. Josh Sargent is a broadsword.

A fairly blunt and inelegant rapier!

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16 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Believe in his own hype ??!! You kidding me - he scored 6 goals in the Premier League last time we were here ! He's just got back into the team so is lacking match fitness. We all know what his strengths and weaknesses are !

DS put him straight back in when he took over - wasn't because he believed in any hype ! Give DS & Shakespeare a bit of time with him. Just because he's got a little style doesn't make him a bad player. Yes he can press but players like Sargent are a "dollar a dozen" compared to Cantwell.

Unfortunately that was two seasons ago now, Cantwell can be our best player when he gets back on it. For whatever reason this season he’s certainly not looked the player he was. It’s not like he’s no been involved I think he’s played in 6 games this season. We all want a Cantwell which is fully focused and back to his best, but this is definitely a squad season, we need everyone to be on their best to stand a chance of staying up. Sargent certainly came on and it was his best game in a yellow shirt.

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On 20/11/2021 at 17:36, king canary said:

Played to his strengths a bit more too, used the long ball to match him up with a smaller full back. He's much more of a Smith player than Farke. 

One thing you could never accuse Sargent off was a lack of effort. Was great to see we have a manager now that can change games.. happy days

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On 22/11/2021 at 00:04, Six Pack said:

Believe in his own hype ??!! You kidding me - he scored 6 goals in the Premier League last time we were here !

You can't dine out on that forever.

Anthony Pilkington scored 8 goals in the Premier League in the same position, then 6 in the Premier League the following season.

Six months later was playing for Cardiff in the Championship after falling out favour and getting out of shape, never seen in the Premier League again.

I predict a similar fate.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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4 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You can't dine out on that forever.

Anthony Pilkington scored 8 goals in the Premier League in the same position, then 6 in the Premier League the following season.

Six months later was playing for Cardiff in the Championship after falling out favour and getting out of shape, never seen in the Premier League again.

I predict a similar fate.

Cantwell definitely has the ability - the stats show that. Let's leave the fine tuning to the experts (DS and Shakespeare) to get him producing at his level. Pilkington had a couple of great seasons for us - we don't know why he didn't appear in the Premier league again after leaving Norwich - it all comes down to the coaches not getting the best out of him or further developing him - not playing him in the best position or negative formations. But tons of players have come through the gates at Norwich - some have performed better after leaving and some not so good. Cantwell has the ability is a fact - we simply leave the coaching staff to iron out the negative parts of his play to get the best out of him.

Also when players leave our club - there are fans that wish the worse for them - note Cantwell is still one of our players !

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15 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Cantwell definitely has the ability - the stats show that. Let's leave the fine tuning to the experts (DS and Shakespeare) to get him producing at his level. Pilkington had a couple of great seasons for us - we don't know why he didn't appear in the Premier league again after leaving Norwich - it all comes down to the coaches not getting the best out of him or further developing him - not playing him in the best position or negative formations. But tons of players have come through the gates at Norwich - some have performed better after leaving and some not so good. Cantwell has the ability is a fact - we simply leave the coaching staff to iron out the negative parts of his play to get the best out of him.

Also when players leave our club - there are fans that wish the worse for them - note Cantwell is still one of our players !

Even very talented players can lose their direction in their careers. They don't lose their talent, but can lose the ability to get the best out of themselves, however good the coaching is.  A lot does depend on the coaching too, but what goes on between a player's ears is what will determine the direction of their careers.   

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Even very talented players can lose their direction in their careers. They don't lose their talent, but can lose the ability to get the best out of themselves, however good the coaching is.  A lot does depend on the coaching too, but what goes on between a player's ears is what will determine the direction of their careers.   

  • An effective coach is positive. ...
  • An effective coach is enthusiastic. ...
  • An effective coach is supportive. ...
  • An effective coach is trusting. ...
  • An effective coach is focused. ...
  • A good coach is goal-oriented. ...
  • An effective coach is observant. ...
  • A good coach is respectful.

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Maybe fairer to review where Cantwell is in 6-8 games time when he's fully back to match sharpness. 

First 45 minutes in what 2 months after a very patchy period where per Farke's comments he didn't manage many full weeks of training, of course he was miles off the pace and miles off his usual levels. I'm still more than hopeful that he'll get back there. 

And also, I know he got pulled at 45 minutes and Sargent played a key role in improving us second half, but the whole team's performance was much improved because we pressed harder and higher up the pitch. That's a joint effort not just the impact of a single player coming on. 

So players who played poorly in the first half also stepped up, particularly ball-players such as Rashica and Gilmour. Its not beyond the realms of possibility to also think that Cantwell might've played a bit better with a stronger level of support around him. 

Of course it was still a good sub to make as Sargent very much led from the front, but just thought it should be pointed out that it was far more than just a straight swap which changed the game. I have no doubt that Sargent would've been helplessly chasing shadows in that first half given our approach was to aimlessly hoof the ball forwards and then allow Southampton to easily win the first and second ball nearly every time...

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler
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On 20/11/2021 at 18:01, lake district canary said:

He was the difference. His robust play gave the Southampton players no peace and changed the game. Nuff said.

Not sure if he was the difference ‘lakey’ but certainly contributed 

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Just listening to Michael Bailey's latest podcast. He noted our pressing stats as a team in the second half were practically twice as hard as the first half, if anyone thinks that is solely because we subbed off Cantwell for Sargent then they are potty!

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler
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6 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Just listening to Michael Bailey's latest podcast. He noted our pressing stats as a team in the second half were practically twice as hard as the first half, if anyone thinks that is solely because we subbed off Cantwell for Sargent then they are potty!

Pretty much spot on, both this and previous post.

Outside pressing Sargent does not have the necessary skills/attributes for a striker playing at this level. Watching the game on Saturday confirmed some concerns. When there were breakaways involving our attacking 3 (Pukki, Sargent, & Rashica). Whenever either Pukki/Rashica carried the ball or received the ball - you felt there was a goal chance. Whenever Sargent carried or receive the ball the move would inevitably break down due to him not playing the right ball or failing to execute accurately. I see nothing in open play that gives me confidence apart from him using his frame to harass. I have not seen enough of Sargent's effectiveness from attacking corners/setpieces. I don't think he has much to offer however if he were to be commanding in the opposition's penalty area and head the ball accurately it would give the coaching team something to think about. 

I am happy with Pukki and Rashica, we need the third attacking player to be of a similar level. 

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On 22/11/2021 at 09:19, Nuff Said said:

Everyone loves a trier, and Sargent is probably the best big, ginger, slightly clumsy trier we’ve had since the Doc ♥️.

Lets hope he turns out like the last ginger striker we had who was underwhelming in his first season.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Six Pack said:

Pretty much spot on, both this and previous post.

Outside pressing Sargent does not have the necessary skills/attributes for a striker playing at this level. Watching the game on Saturday confirmed some concerns. When there were breakaways involving our attacking 3 (Pukki, Sargent, & Rashica). Whenever either Pukki/Rashica carried the ball or received the ball - you felt there was a goal chance. Whenever Sargent carried or receive the ball the move would inevitably break down due to him not playing the right ball or failing to execute accurately. I see nothing in open play that gives me confidence apart from him using his frame to harass. I have not seen enough of Sargent's effectiveness from attacking corners/setpieces. I don't think he has much to offer however if he were to be commanding in the opposition's penalty area and head the ball accurately it would give the coaching team something to think about. 

I am happy with Pukki and Rashica, we need the third attacking player to be of a similar level. 

"inevitably break down due to him not playing the right ball or failing to execute accurately"

This generally happens to young players finding their feet and to players that are new to English football and particularly the premier league.

He's 21 and needs time.

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