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Final stages of revamping crest…

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26 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

So these unofficial versions of the badge around the ground and on the kits that have appeared in multiple variations over the years must have been of the club's doing then .

Yes they've clearly played a part in that occurring as various people at the club across the years have obviously signed them off.  Not really sure how else you expect me to respond to that?

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One other thing they need to nail down - what are the specific shades of Yellow and Green? Then enforce that across the kit designs. IMO this year’s kit yellow is fine, but the green is too light, we need a bit more contrast between the two. 

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I don't like our new crest at all. I prefer the old crest by a long way.

The canary on the new badge just looks bland and weird without the outlines. I think the castle and lion in the corner look better. But the new canary looks awful.

I hope the club just carry on using the old crest.

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1 hour ago, ncfcstar said:

Yes they've clearly played a part in that occurring as various people at the club across the years have obviously signed them off.  Not really sure how else you expect me to respond to that?

Have you taken over from Wolfie on here James 🤣 

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1 minute ago, ncfcstar said:

Yes, heard from him yesterday.

Thanks - glad hes ok. 

15 minutes ago, Diane said:

Have you taken over from Wolfie on here James 🤣 

As Diane asked - have you taken over from him on here? 

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15 minutes ago, Diane said:

Have you taken over from Wolfie on here James 🤣 

Not sure about that 😆 - quieter week at work!

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1 minute ago, Greavsy said:

Thanks - glad hes ok. 

As Diane asked - have you taken over from him on here? 

No no, I've always been here, just coincidence.

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6 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

Not sure about that 😆 - quieter week at work!

I was just joking James 🤣  just so used to seeing poor Wolfie answering all the questions  

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5 hours ago, ncfcstar said:

No of course not, but it makes standardisation of the badge far easier than the current hand drawn version.  Which means, as we've seen, there will be one version of the badge all around the ground rather than multiple random versions, and there will be one version on our kits not the multiple variations we've seen over the years.

The kit manufacturers would have been supplied artwork for the crest by Norwich City, and Norwich City would have approved samples submiited by the manufacturers.

If the club have been approving inconsistent versions of the crest then why will a new version make any difference? 

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2 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

The kit manufacturers would have been supplied artwork for the crest by Norwich City, and Norwich City would have approved samples submiited by the manufacturers.

If the club have been approving inconsistent versions of the crest then why will a new version make any difference? 

Exactly.

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28 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

The kit manufacturers would have been supplied artwork for the crest by Norwich City, and Norwich City would have approved samples submiited by the manufacturers.

If the club have been approving inconsistent versions of the crest then why will a new version make any difference? 

I've acknowledged elsewhere that they've obviously approved these inconsistent versions previously.

The whole point about the new crest is that it has been created in a digital world and therefore there will be one image that can be scaled up and scaled down to whatever size someone wants, changed coloured, whatever else, and easily transferred to partners/manufacturers etc etc etc.

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1 hour ago, Diane said:

I was just joking James 🤣  just so used to seeing poor Wolfie answering all the questions  

Hopefully he's taking a break then ha.  I think it's only fair that I answer what I can considering we were lucky enough to be at the presentation from the club.

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21 hours ago, tallman said:

A quick stab at somehow putting back some character into the new logo. Just feel its stripped out too much and straightened one too many elements that made the old (proper!) badge.

Tilted the beak up slightly, added back the angled look of the wing & put another small tail element again.

Subtle changes maybe, but not quite so jarring anymore?

Logo_New.jpg

Like your version a lot more. The tail isn't quite there though, looks a bit weird I think (maybe more like the original would work? Or like the new one but a smidge longer) but almost perfect

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3 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

I've acknowledged elsewhere that they've obviously approved these inconsistent versions previously.

The whole point about the new crest is that it has been created in a digital world and therefore there will be one image that can be scaled up and scaled down to whatever size someone wants, changed coloured, whatever else, and easily transferred to partners/manufacturers etc etc etc.

I was highlighting a pretty big flaw in the club's reasoning for the changes.

Scaling up & down, being easier to reproduce in smaller sizes, fewer colours, better-looking lion - these are all good reasons.

Preventing inconsistent use - nope, won't really make any difference. 

Maybe they should have said something like "In the past, our use and reproduction of the club crest has been muddled & poorly-executed,  but this new version will go hand-in-hand with a determination to maintain brand-consistency, both in-house and by third-parties."

 

 

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46 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

The whole point about the new crest is that it has been created in a digital world and therefore there will be one image that can be scaled up and scaled down to whatever size someone wants, changed coloured, whatever else, and easily transferred to partners/manufacturers etc etc etc.

You know pre-digital content can be sampled into digital formats that don't even exist yet?  They're not limited by current digital formats, hence why 1930's film Wizard of Oz is in 4k and easily put into 8k in future.

Watch back some old Sky recorded digital footage from 2000's and see what it looks like today - shocking.  As exampled, the concept of a "Digital World" is limited by current tech.

They had the current versions traced into vector art already, and if they haven't I could've done it within an hour.  There's massive crests above the ground, on the outside and inside the club shops too.  So it had to be done for those to exist.

You can see by the shape of the lines, how they arc and point to point that it's already vector formatted.  But even vector formats can change depending on the rendering of the host application, raster images will still be used as the masters for majority of assets.

This new design is more about getting down to a single colour screenprint and saving printing costs with a simpler design.  Moving to a digital world is just something to tag on top to make it seem more of a necessity.

Edited by Google Bot
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7 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

You know pre-digital content can be sampled into digital formats that don't even exist yet?  They're not limited by current digital formats, hence why 1930's film Wizard of Oz is in 4k and easily put into 8k in future.

Watch back some old Sky recorded digital footage from 2000's and see what it looks like today - shocking.  As exampled, the concept of a "Digital World" is limited by current tech.

They had the current versions traced into vector art already, and if they haven't I could've done it within an hour.  There's massive crests above the ground, on the outside and inside the club shops too.  So it had to be done for those to exist.

You can see by the shape of the lines, how they arc and point to point that it's already vector formatted.  But even vector formats can change depending on the rendering of the host application, raster images will still be used as the masters for majority of assets.

This new design is more about getting down to a single colour screenprint and saving printing costs with a simpler design.  Moving to a digital world is just something to tag on top to make it seem more of a necessity.

Well there you go simple as that 🤭. I'm getting to quite like it. No point in not liking it cause its here to stay. Anyway the new canary has the correct length of tail. The older one was a Budgie 🤣

Edited by Mengo

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2 minutes ago, Mengo said:

I'm getting to quite like it. No point in not liking it cause its here to stay

I normally quite like change and don't drag my feet... It's just when I see our current badge it makes me feel good, So many memories, silly little things with that badge on as representing us on away games, going into Europe.

Only time can fix that, of course, once we start making memories with the new one i'm sure it will be good. 

Until then, it just feels so devoid of character and sterile to me and unable to separate that over-riding emotion.  Everything about the badge has been become more generic/corporate, which doesn't sit right for a club who's not at all based on those ethics.  I quite like our quirks.

Probably 90% nostalgia talking right now... oh well. 😕

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31 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

You know pre-digital content can be sampled into digital formats that don't even exist yet?  They're not limited by current digital formats, hence why 1930's film Wizard of Oz is in 4k and easily put into 8k in future.

Watch back some old Sky recorded digital footage from 2000's and see what it looks like today - shocking.  As exampled, the concept of a "Digital World" is limited by current tech.

They had the current versions traced into vector art already, and if they haven't I could've done it within an hour.  There's massive crests above the ground, on the outside and inside the club shops too.  So it had to be done for those to exist.

You can see by the shape of the lines, how they arc and point to point that it's already vector formatted.  But even vector formats can change depending on the rendering of the host application, raster images will still be used as the masters for majority of assets.

This new design is more about getting down to a single colour screenprint and saving printing costs with a simpler design.  Moving to a digital world is just something to tag on top to make it seem more of a necessity.

Yes I'm aware of all of your points re: digitisation.

The club acknowledged in the presentation that blowing the current badge up wasn't an issue, they could make it as big as they wanted, the real issue was making it small as all of the lines in the drawing made this difficult - particularly when it comes to producing it outside of imagery on TV/computers etc and actually on a piece of clothing for example.  You only need to look at examples shared this week to see how embroidering the badge was complicated and took the detail away.

I agree your last point is probably a big part of the reasoning behind the change.

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25 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I normally quite like change and don't drag my feet... It's just when I see our current badge it makes me feel good, So many memories, silly little things with that badge on as representing us on away games, going into Europe.

Only time can fix that, of course, once we start making memories with the new one i'm sure it will be good. 

Until then, it just feels so devoid of character and sterile to me and unable to separate that over-riding emotion.  Everything about the badge has been become more generic/corporate, which doesn't sit right for a club who's not at all based on those ethics.  I quite like our quirks.

Probably 90% nostalgia talking right now... oh well. 😕

Understand all of your feelings and emotions. I just don't want you to go down the depressive route of lakey and Uncle Fred😂. You can never destroy your memories.  Its the start of the SAS era and I for one are so excited 😊 about it all. The times they are a changing

 

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1 hour ago, ncfcstar said:

   I think it's only fair that I answer what I can considering we were lucky enough to be at the presentation from the club.

Consultation with elected fans was something the club had a duty to do ncfcstar so no luck in being there.

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These decisions have drivers. The drivers will usually be 

1. Cost. 

2. Because the rest of the market have done it . 

3. New people decide that old people got it wrong (which can also be described as change for change sake). 

Let's explore the reasons given . 

Commercial director Sam Jeffery said: “This is a huge moment in the history of Norwich City Football Club and a real statement of intent for the future. For the first time in 50 years the club will adopt a newly evolved crest, fit for digital purpose, iconic and most importantly accessible for all."

  • A huge moment in the history of Norwich City Football Club. No it isn’t.
  • A statement of intent for the future. What does this actually mean?  We intend to have a different badge?
  • Fit for Digital purpose. I think the experts on here have largely dismissed this, with the exception that it works better in smaller sizes. 
  • Iconic. Using the existing icons – a lion, a castle and a canary, but all a bit different.
  • Accessible for all. See earlier "a statement of intent for the future" . How can a copyrighted design be accessible for all? Can we all now get this printed on our letter heads? Is there a suggestion that the LGBT community, or disabled supporters can use it better, or relate to it more readily?

 

So far, I have to say I am none the wiser. A few bits of management speak but otherwise it all looks a bit like 1, 2 and 3 are in play here rather than Accessible for All. 

 

Now for the stakeholders bit. 

 

The 5000 fans are I'm afraid, as big a red herring as "the ball was off centre so the whole thing was unbalanced". 5000 is a great number. Big enough to use as a marketing tool, but small enough to control. My guess is that people were given "do you like A or B" rather than really open questions. Was anyone asked “Should we change the Crest?” Unlikely as 2501 could have said no, and that would have been that.

What the directors think is of no consequence, but driver 3 comes into play here. Can you honestly imagine that one day Delia leapt out of bed and shouted "you know what Michael?  I really think we need to make the badge more accessible to all. 

Manufacturers will design what they are given and cost the job accordingly. There are thousands of items of workwear that are embroidered and or screen printed

Back to Embroidery. I get this. But it can be embroidered properly if you throw enough money at the production. I think we are back to driver 1 here.

This took two years? Really? Why did it take so long? Covid? Relegation? Ben Kensell leaving (who by the way loved the Embroidered badge in place of the horrible plastic stuck on badges that kept falling off) .

 

All of this makes me sound like I dislike the new badge. I don’t. I really like the Castle and Lion, and am growing to like the angry canary (who looks less angry each time I look at him/her)

But I do have an aversion to management speak , having to listen to it far too often . Using the old “we consulted everyone , and came up with the changes we desired” routine get on my nerves. 

And finally

The representative supporters club shouldn't be getting any stick for this. They would have been drawn into the process, mostly so that the process can have an implied level of governance. Fact is the club were going to change the badge and that is that. 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

These decisions have drivers. The drivers will usually be 

1. Cost. 

2. Because the rest of the market have done it . 

3. New people decide that old people got it wrong (which can also be described as change for change sake). 

Let's explore the reasons given . 

Commercial director Sam Jeffery said: “This is a huge moment in the history of Norwich City Football Club and a real statement of intent for the future. For the first time in 50 years the club will adopt a newly evolved crest, fit for digital purpose, iconic and most importantly accessible for all."

  • A huge moment in the history of Norwich City Football Club. No it isn’t.
  • A statement of intent for the future. What does this actually mean?  We intend to have a different badge?
  • Fit for Digital purpose. I think the experts on here have largely dismissed this, with the exception that it works better in smaller sizes. 
  • Iconic. Using the existing icons – a lion, a castle and a canary, but all a bit different.
  • Accessible for all. See earlier "a statement of intent for the future" . How can a copyrighted design be accessible for all? Can we all now get this printed on our letter heads? Is there a suggestion that the LGBT community, or disabled supporters can use it better, or relate to it more readily?

 

So far, I have to say I am none the wiser. A few bits of management speak but otherwise it all looks a bit like 1, 2 and 3 are in play here rather than Accessible for All. 

 

Now for the stakeholders bit. 

 

The 5000 fans are I'm afraid, as big a red herring as "the ball was off centre so the whole thing was unbalanced". 5000 is a great number. Big enough to use as a marketing tool, but small enough to control. My guess is that people were given "do you like A or B" rather than really open questions. Was anyone asked “Should we change the Crest?” Unlikely as 2501 could have said no, and that would have been that.

What the directors think is of no consequence, but driver 3 comes into play here. Can you honestly imagine that one day Delia leapt out of bed and shouted "you know what Michael?  I really think we need to make the badge more accessible to all. 

Manufacturers will design what they are given and cost the job accordingly. There are thousands of items of workwear that are embroidered and or screen printed

Back to Embroidery. I get this. But it can be embroidered properly if you throw enough money at the production. I think we are back to driver 1 here.

This took two years? Really? Why did it take so long? Covid? Relegation? Ben Kensell leaving (who by the way loved the Embroidered badge in place of the horrible plastic stuck on badges that kept falling off) .

 

All of this makes me sound like I dislike the new badge. I don’t. I really like the Castle and Lion, and am growing to like the angry canary (who looks less angry each time I look at him/her)

But I do have an aversion to management speak , having to listen to it far too often . Using the old “we consulted everyone , and came up with the changes we desired” routine get on my nerves. 

And finally

The representative supporters club shouldn't be getting any stick for this. They would have been drawn into the process, mostly so that the process can have an implied level of governance. Fact is the club were going to change the badge and that is that. 

 

 

 

 

It's not true management-speak unless it includes at least three out of:

Blue-sky thinking

Mission statement

Core values

Synergies

Paradigm shift

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We had a young girl in sales who explained that she was scared of heights when owners talked of vertical integration during a corporate presentation.  One of my favourite "Any questions?" moments. 🙂

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15 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It's not true management-speak unless it includes at least three out of:

Blue-sky thinking

Mission statement

Core values

Synergies

Paradigm shift

Are you “reaching out” to me Purple 😂

(another one of my pet hated phrases) 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard
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Wow.  Lots of analysis here on the new crest and why they did it.  Honestly surprised with the negative comments.  

I don’t really care why they did it.  For me, it looks way better than the old one, a fresh take on the old, subtle changes but a total tidy up of what was a hand drawn effort.  

I get the nostalgic factor, but that badge will live on forever.  The new one will too.  Move on folks and embrace change, when it’s being used on the shirts, Carrow Road etc it will have context.  
It’s gonna look classy. 

 

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some thoughts a couple of days after release…

During the time of when they announced they were going to release a new crest until the time they did, I was really worried they were going to drastically change it 

when I saw the new one I was so relieved they hadn’t mucked around with it and it was the same premise 

its really grown on me and I’m looking forward to seeing it on our new kit next season 

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