Final stages of revamping crest…

[Crafty Canary 495]

On 29/11/2021 at 16:51, cambridgeshire canary said:

Bit odd they did not tell him mind

As the club hold the copywrite for the crest they are not obliged to tell him or anyone else beforehand. As for monetary reward was there not a prize for creating the winning design when he did so?

[Greavsy 2,412]

15 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Who said it was a done deal and that the views were not taken into account?

Ncfcstar said it was a presentation NOT a consultation. Thus meaning its a done deal, not up for discussion or change as a result of any discussions 

31 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

I'd also point out to Mr. Tilson that this wasn't so much a consultation more a presentation.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

5 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Ncfcstar said it was a presentation NOT a consultation. Thus meaning its a done deal, not up for discussion or change as a result of any discussions 

 

Well if it was purely a presentation - and stated as such - then the club hadn't pretended there had been meaningful discussions and consultation, which seemed to be your complaint.

[ncfcstar 287]

23 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Ncfcstar said it was a presentation NOT a consultation. Thus meaning its a done deal, not up for discussion or change as a result of any discussions 

 

The project 50 website shows the process the club went through, including numerous consultative meetings with various representatives and 'focus groups', we were then presented with the outcome of all of those meetings and asked for our thoughts and feedback. 

[Greavsy 2,412]

32 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Well if it was purely a presentation - and stated as such - then the club hadn't pretended there had been meaningful discussions and consultation, which seemed to be your complaint.

No complaint, more a comment / observation into the engagement by club with the OSP and their perceived meaningful input. 

Just my view. 

[essex canary 492]

2 hours ago, ncfcstar said:

I'd also point out to Mr. Tilson that this wasn't so much a consultation more a presentation.

Isn't that exactly the point meaning that given the Club's owners are 'custodians' consultation is exactly what should take place?

Also as per last week's EDP letters page such consultation should reasonably include the designer of the original badge and supporters with specific historical local knowledge?

In other words the whole process would have benefitted, and still would if possible,  from being transparent rather than confidential which is exactly what MWJ said was priority at the 2018 AGM. 

Could the Supporters Panel seek clarification on the Transparency v Confidentiality equation?

[ncfcstar 287]

3 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Isn't that exactly the point meaning that given the Club's owners are 'custodians' consultation is exactly what should take place?

Also as per last week's EDP letters page such consultation should reasonably include the designer of the original badge and supporters with specific historical local knowledge?

In other words the whole process would have benefitted, and still would if possible,  from being transparent rather than confidential which is exactly what MWJ said was priority at the 2018 AGM. 

Could the Supporters Panel seek clarification on the Transparency v Confidentiality equation?

As mentioned previously the project 50 site explains exactly what process they went through.

From a personal point of view I don't really see why the designer of the current badge would need to be consulted, seeing as they were creating a new version.  How constructive do you honestly believe those conversations would be?  He's made it quite clear in his new five minutes of fame that he isn't too happy about them changing the badge at all.

I also feel like the club have been very transparent in how they got to this point, again, visit the project 50 website.  I'd hazard a guess that FTSE 100/Fortune 500 companies who go through rebrands don't tend to make these public knowledge from the outset for a variety of reasons.

[Greavsy 2,412]

22 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

As mentioned previously the project 50 site explains exactly what process they went through.

From a personal point of view I don't really see why the designer of the current badge would need to be consulted, seeing as they were creating a new version.  How constructive do you honestly believe those conversations would be?  He's made it quite clear in his new five minutes of fame that he isn't too happy about them changing the badge at all.

I also feel like the club have been very transparent in how they got to this point, again, visit the project 50 website.  I'd hazard a guess that FTSE 100/Fortune 500 companies who go through rebrands don't tend to make these public knowledge from the outset for a variety of reasons.

Do they all have OSP / supporters panels to 'consult' 

Not really comparing apples with apples there Starman. 

[ncfcstar 287]

4 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Do they all have OSP / supporters panels to 'consult' 

Not really comparing apples with apples there Starman. 

No, but they obviously have shareholders.  So we may disagree but I'd argue it's a fair comparison especially considering, as stated many times, the club did consult various groups.

Let's not also ignore the fact that this process began far in advance of the OSP being formed.

I appreciate you have concerns over the OSP, and the way the club communicate/listen to us, but as I've said in the past to you we are a newly formed panel and I think it's unfair to not expect there to be teething issues especially with the changes that have happened at the club in the past 12 months.  As I've said to you previously, I will feel like I've achieved something if we can leave our positions in 18 months time with the panel fully functioning and with a clear role/destination for whoever take our places come 2023.

[essex canary 492]

2 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

No, but they obviously have shareholders.  So we may disagree but I'd argue it's a fair comparison especially considering, as stated many times, the club did consult various groups.

Let's not also ignore the fact that this process began far in advance of the OSP being formed.

I appreciate you have concerns over the OSP, and the way the club communicate/listen to us, but as I've said in the past to you we are a newly formed panel and I think it's unfair to not expect there to be teething issues especially with the changes that have happened at the club in the past 12 months.  As I've said to you previously, I will feel like I've achieved something if we can leave our positions in 18 months time with the panel fully functioning and with a clear role/destination for whoever take our places come 2023.

The football industry should act in accordance with higher principles hence the Crouch Report.

The contributions to last week's EDP were articulating a position with reference to local history therefore appear relevant.

Whilst appreciating the history of the OSP, from a supporters perspective why should issues be allowed to slip through the cracks of the changing of the guard? 

[ncfcstar 287]

2 minutes ago, essex canary said:

The football industry should act in accordance with higher principles hence the Crouch Report.

The contributions to last week's EDP were articulating a position with reference to local history therefore appear relevant.

Whilst appreciating the history of the OSP, from a supporters perspective why should issues be allowed to slip through the cracks of the changing of the guard? 

1. Crouch Report - not really sure what relevance that has to the club rebranding.

2. That's for the club to decide, they received feedback from multiple groups as explained on the project 50 website.  You have my personal opinion on the previous designer.

3. I don't understand what you are referencing or what point you are trying to make here.

[essex canary 492]

I will try three other ways of expressing it

1. Community Football Clubs should be expected to meet higher accountability, consultation and transparency standards than FTSE100 companies especially one constituted as NCFC is.

2. Why should any one supporter get preferential knowledge over any other supporter as the issue is unfolding? Even if they do perhaps there ought to be some criteria? For instance as one of the top 50 shareholders perhaps I should have been consulted if there are to be preferential groups? Nonetheless a belief that the utmost transparency for a Community Club would be/ have been complete openness as the process unfolded.

3. If the Club persistently changes its consultation groups or processes, the accountability referred to in 1. above is undermined.

 

 

[ncfcstar 287]

6 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I will try three other ways of expressing it

1. Community Football Clubs should be expected to meet higher accountability, consultation and transparency standards than FTSE100 companies especially one constituted as NCFC is.

2. Why should any one supporter get preferential knowledge over any other supporter as the issue is unfolding? Even if they do perhaps there ought to be some criteria? For instance as one of the top 50 shareholders perhaps I should have been consulted if there are to be preferential groups? Nonetheless a belief that the utmost transparency for a Community Club would be/ have been complete openness as the process unfolded.

3. If the Club persistently changes its consultation groups or processes, the accountability referred to in 1. above is undermined.

 

 

I understand what you are suggesting, but whilst we obviously all care about the club and see it as vital part of the community, the last time I checked the football club was a PLC with a majority shareholding held by two individuals.

Edited December 6, 2021 by ncfcstar

[Lessingham Canary 99]

2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Do they all have OSP / supporters panels to 'consult' 

Not really comparing apples with apples there Starman. 

No but they will utilise focus groups to gauge the direction they wish to take and what reactions may be, the big one locally a few years ago was Norwich Union and the change to Aviva, at least the club didn't feel the need to employ Bruce Willis in a yellow cab to announce the change.

[essex canary 492]

4 hours ago, ncfcstar said:

I understand what you are suggesting, but whilst we obviously all care about the club and see it as vital part of the community, the last time I checked the football club was a PLC with a majority shareholding held by two individuals.

Those 2 individuals have been on public record saying that they support the highest standards of transparency and that they see themselves as custodians of a Club that is community oriented.. Not unreasonable therefore to suggest that the reality falls short of the rhetoric and the Supporters Panel indicated that a key issue is communication.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

1 hour ago, essex canary said:

Those 2 individuals have been on public record saying that they support the highest standards of transparency and that they see themselves as custodians of a Club that is community oriented.. Not unreasonable therefore to suggest that the reality falls short of the rhetoric and the Supporters Panel indicated that a key issue is communication.

Maybe they didn't want a repeat of what happened when the fans took a dislike to the Bruce Oldfield all yellow kit ?

[essex canary 492]

12 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Maybe they didn't want a repeat of what happened when the fans took a dislike to the Bruce Oldfield all yellow kit ?

Brilliant!

I googled that and guess what, the same comment made 24 years ago as for the badge namely  that this is a historic moment for Norwich City Football Club.

What was historic about it was they forgot the colour Green. I guess they have this time too because doubtless there are no environmental considerations and presumably an intention to sell loads more tat. Perhaps the only sense in which Green is reflected is as in 'naive'?  If the fans don't get a vote with their hands maybe they will vote with their feet?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

 

Hitchin Town seem to have solved the tail problem...

[Crafty Canary 495]

I would like to propose a minor amendment to the new design. I would like to see a yo-yo dangling from the canary’s beak thereby reflecting our club’s status.