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cambridgeshire canary

Cantwell has a message for us Norwich faithful

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36 minutes ago, Pugin said:

I have only just read some of this. The whole thread has been the most depressing thing I have ever read on here, or am ever likely to read. Attempted cyber-bullying, invention dressed-up as fact, the whole myth that you cannot train and post on social media (!!!), insincerity, total ignorance of the facts, pretence that Todd hasn't behaved well or trained well, an unnatural attraction to whatever he does, and a failure to grasp the situation. 

Above all else, the suggestion that a young footballer should be hounded off social media because he posted a picture off him playing with his dog, with a fairly opaque message attached.

Shame, shame, shame. What a sad reflection on some of our contributors. 

This 

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On 16/11/2021 at 00:10, hogesar said:

Farke generally made the right decisions with young players and you'd have to assume Todd likely caused the rift somehow or someway. 

Regardless that has nothing to do with the weird obsession middle aged men have ripping into everything a 23 year old young footballer posts on social media.

Best not to assume 

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17 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Best not to assume 

This thread has been polarised for and against. Surely it's best to try to wipe out the past and start with a clean sheet for the good of the club.

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52 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Best not to assume 

I think with Farke's history of managing young players alongside Todd's history, it's a pretty fair assumption.

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27 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think with Farke's history of managing young players alongside Todd's history, it's a pretty fair assumption.

Agreed - but only if it fits the posters agenda! 

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I love watching Todd, and have huge pride in him.  Equally it is his career and he has to take responsibility, I have no inside knowledge of the conversations which have happened but between himself and the club they seem to have got themselves into a tricky contractual position.  He could now spend a further 18 months watching his contract run down, whilst playing u23 football.  Just crazy, I suspect the club see it as a limited risk as his wages for 2 years will be circa 3M, if anyone tries to take him before next Christmas, they will easily get more than that in a transfer fee.  If Todd was playing and maximising his potential some Premier league club would pay much more than 20M for his services, he would be earning more sooner.  I suspect any potential suitor at the moment may still be interested, they are also going to be cautious about his attitude, and as result might not pay top dollar.  Just crazy

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1 hour ago, Pugin said:

I have only just read some of this. The whole thread has been the most depressing thing I have ever read on here, or am ever likely to read. Attempted cyber-bullying, invention dressed-up as fact, the whole myth that you cannot train and post on social media (!!!), insincerity, total ignorance of the facts, pretence that Todd hasn't behaved well or trained well, an unnatural attraction to whatever he does, and a failure to grasp the situation. 

Above all else, the suggestion that a young footballer should be hounded off social media because he posted a picture off him playing with his dog, with a fairly opaque message attached.

Shame, shame, shame. What a sad reflection on some of our contributors. 

I stuck up for your post RE the personal issues, and stuck by Cantwell through all of it plus the subsequent niggles he faced, but nothing about that situation justifies Farke entirely freezing him out of the side - clearly.

I don't think I've cyber bullied him, made stuff up, ridiculed him for him for using social media (just the silly short football posts but that's only a tiny tiny percentage), or anything else - and nor do I subscribe to anyone who does that!

If you knew some of the details about the personal stuff then maybe you would also know why he was frozen out - I'd gladly take it all back if there was a justification.

But right now, I can definitely believe that Farke wasn't a totally innocent party and perhaps could've been harder on the lad than other managers. However, I totally fail to believe that this harshness didn't come from an initial failing on Todd's side of some kind.

Very much look forward to him being back and pushing past all this, as I don't particularly enjoy feeling like I am being tarnished with the same brush of the abusers and that nonsense. I feel a bit let down by him, yes, but nothing more and will welcome him back to the team as much as anyone.

I just don't think Cantwell is entitled to what feels like la la la fingers-in-ears unequivocal support during these situations.

Again, its happened twice for him, and zero times for the vast majority of our other best prospects. 

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2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I stuck up for your post RE the personal issues, and stuck by Cantwell through all of it plus the subsequent niggles he faced, but nothing about that situation justifies Farke entirely freezing him out of the side - clearly.

I don't think I've cyber bullied him, made stuff up, ridiculed him for him for using social media (just the silly short football posts but that's only a tiny tiny percentage), or anything else - and nor do I subscribe to anyone who does that!

If you knew some of the details about the personal stuff then maybe you would also know why he was frozen out - I'd gladly take it all back if there was a justification.

But right now, I can definitely believe that Farke wasn't a totally innocent party and perhaps could've been harder on the lad than other managers. However, I totally fail to believe that this harshness didn't come from an initial failing on Todd's side of some kind.

Very much look forward to him being back and pushing past all this, as I don't particularly enjoy feeling like I am being tarnished with the same brush of the abusers and that nonsense. I feel a bit let down by him, yes, but nothing more and will welcome him back to the team as much as anyone.

I just don't think Cantwell is entitled to what feels like la la la fingers-in-ears unequivocal support during these situations.

Again, its happened twice for him, and zero times for the vast majority of our other best prospects. 

Well said! 

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1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This whole debate stems from an unjustified failure to respect Farke's judgement in handling young players. It will be interesting to see what happens with the new management. 

Actually this whole debate sparked from Cambridge maliciously posting a two week old post of Todd’s, posing with his dog, while ignoring a much more positive recent post.

I do agree with you though that this is about Farkes judgement in handling young players. Personally I don’t feel we’ve got the best we could have from Tzolis, Gilmore or Cantwell this season so I’m very much hoping Smith will get more from them and ultimately more points.

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What is interesting with the Cantwell situation is he was immediately allowed back to train with the first team squad by Webber and Weaver as soon as Farke was sacked.

Which possibly suggests that they maybe did not regard his continued banishment as justified. 
 

“lack of focus in training” is a very convenient explanation since there is no way it can ever be proven or disproved. 

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45 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

What is interesting with the Cantwell situation is he was immediately allowed back to train with the first team squad by Webber and Weaver as soon as Farke was sacked.

No. He was due back in the squad then anyway. That was always the plan - Farke's plan.

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9 hours ago, hogesar said:

I think with Farke's history of managing young players alongside Todd's history, it's a pretty fair assumption.

Because of Farke's history in freezing out anyone who questions his topics, best not to assume. 

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1 hour ago, Number9 said:

Because of Farke's history in freezing out anyone who questions his topics, best not to assume. 

Are you assuming Farke freezes players out who question him? Or are you actually backing that up with Facts? Everyone he’s actually frozen out and moved out the club we’re justified would you not agree? Drmic, Leitner! I can only think of a few who have had the full treatment, others as Gilmour, Cantwell and even Tzolis & Idah have yet to prove they warrant a fist team start!

How do you stand with Webber? If a player no longer wants to play for the club they will be moved on? Is that acceptable? So if a player has an issue doesn’t agree with the way the clubs moving forwards and gets frozen out due to lack of effort or focus is that wrong?

Farke has done nothing but help Cantwell in his 4 years development so I certainly don’t think Farke would have frozen Cantwell out at all, from what I can see he was stating that Cantwell was coming back into full training and needed time and games under his belt which he was getting! But hey ho we all view the scenarios differently with the information we have, without full access to all the conversations behind the scenes it’s all assumptions!

Edited by Indy

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9 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

Actually this whole debate sparked from Cambridge maliciously posting a two week old post of Todd’s, posing with his dog, while ignoring a much more positive recent post.

I do agree with you though that this is about Farkes judgement in handling young players. Personally I don’t feel we’ve got the best we could have from Tzolis, Gilmore or Cantwell this season so I’m very much hoping Smith will get more from them and ultimately more points.

I don’t think Cambridge canary has a malicious bone in his body however he is an attention seeker and will love that a pretty innocuous post has gone to 7 pages 

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9 hours ago, lake district canary said:

No. He was due back in the squad then anyway. That was always the plan - Farke's plan.

Source ?

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

Are you assuming Farke freezes players out who question him? Or are you actually backing that up with Facts? Everyone he’s actually frozen out and moved out the club we’re justified would you not agree? Drmic, Leitner! I can only think of a few who have had the full treatment, others as Gilmour, Cantwell and even Tzolis & Idah have yet to prove they warrant a fist team start!

How do you stand with Webber? If a player no longer wants to play for the club they will be moved on? Is that acceptable? So if a player has an issue doesn’t agree with the way the clubs moving forwards and gets frozen out due to lack of effort or focus is that wrong?

Farke has done nothing but help Cantwell in his 4 years development has done nothing but help Cantwell in his 4 years development so I certainly don’t think Farke would have frozen Cantwell out at all, from what I can see he was stating that Cantwell was coming back into full training and needed time and games under his belt which he was getting! But hey ho we all view the scenarios differently with the information we have, without full access to all the conversations behind the scenes it’s all assumptions!

So you're asking me for facts if Farke freezes out players who questioned him. Then you mention some players you believe it happened to.

Hmm.

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Just now, Number9 said:

So you're asking me for facts if Farke freezes out players who questioned him. Then you mention some players you believe it happened to.

Hmm.

Nope I asked you for facts on Cantwell? You’re questioning Hoggys comments and yours are only the same assumptions! Any irony you see?

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1 minute ago, Indy said:

Nope I asked you for facts on Cantwell? You’re questioning Hoggys comments and yours are only the same assumptions! Any irony you see?

Neither of us know all the facts about Todd's situation. 

We can see over the last weeks how it has developed and the comments made by Farke. 

The events have Farke's fingerprints all over them, as you know because you provided a  couple of examples of which we don't know all the facts either. 

Without making an assumption that Todd is the worst employee ever and that the situation was all his fault we can see a pattern in the way Farke deals with ones who question him.

 

 

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...(any player, or combination of two players, who) ...questions him or believes that maybe players have something to contribute to the conversation. All in the hope of winning some games. Send to Siberia.

 

 

Edited by Pugin
Elucidation
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8 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Neither of us know all the facts about Todd's situation. 

We can see over the last weeks how it has developed and the comments made by Farke. 

The events have Farke's fingerprints all over them, as you know because you provided a  couple of examples of which we don't know all the facts either. 

Without making an assumption that Todd is the worst employee ever and that the situation was all his fault we can see a pattern in the way Farke deals with ones who question him.

 

 

But no one is saying that are they? The facts are Cantwell has been out with personal issues, not training then back training and then when questioned Farke has laid the scenario out! Cantwell might feel he’s ready but Farke set the demands to be in full training and getting game time under his belt in the under 23’s, he wasn’t frozen out, he’s on his way back! The assumption by you is he was frozen out along with Tzolis who’s on the bench most games and Gilmour who started the fist few games and looked lost!

Thats why I’ve posted a number of times we all want a fully focused Cantwell back and I’m sure any City coach would be no different! Just said the four years Cantwell has developed has been under Farke, the same as Aarons, Godfrey, Buendia, Omobamdele, Lewis to name a few.

Edited by Indy

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2 minutes ago, Indy said:

But no one is saying that are they? The facts are Cantwell has been out with personal issues, not training then back training and then when questioned Farke has laid the scenario out! Cantwell might feel he’s ready but Farke set the demands to be in full training and getting game time under his belt in the under 23’s, he wasn’t frozen out, he’s on his way back! The assumption by you is he was frozen out along with Tzolis who’s on the bench most games and Gilmour who started the fist few games and looked lost!

Thats why I’ve posted a number of times we all want a fully focused Cantwell back and I’m sure any City coach would be no different! Just said the four years Cantwell has developed has been under Farke, the same as Aarons, Godfrey, Buendia, Omobamdele, Lewis to name a few.

Are they the facts?

Or are they a serious of comments made in press conferences over a few weeks, which don't appear to be logical until you consider them in the context of Farke's modus operandi when dealing with ones who challenge him?

Look at it from a different viewpoint. 

You employ a manager to look after a team. He regularly falls out with members of staff,  ostracizing them and making them leave your company. 

Currently, one of your most valuable assets is being targeted and your £30,000,000 is likely to be wasted by the time your manager has finished. 

Do you stand by and accept your most valuable asset is decimated to zero? Or deal with the manager. 

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Just now, Number9 said:

Are they the facts?

Or are they a serious of comments made in press conferences over a few weeks, which don't appear to be logical until you consider them in the context of Farke's modus operandi when dealing with ones who challenge him?

Look at it from a different viewpoint. 

You employ a manager to look after a team. He regularly falls out with members of staff,  ostracizing them and making them leave your company. 

Currently, one of your most valuable assets is being targeted and your £30,000,000 is likely to be wasted by the time your manager has finished. 

Do you stand by and accept your most valuable asset is decimated to zero? Or deal with the manager. 

What you’ve just done there is ignored the details in press conferences and info out of the club and then made a set of assumptions! Now do you see you the irony of your response to Hoggy! I’ll leave it there as I said I will believe what Farke said as he’s done a fantastic job and has been pretty honest with fans from day one till the end, Drmic and Leitner had an ego which they couldn’t fulfil and we’re shipped on, I don’t think anyone of would complain with their departures!

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5 minutes ago, Indy said:

What you’ve just done there is ignored the details in press conferences and info out of the club and then made a set of assumptions! Now do you see you the irony of your response to Hoggy! I’ll leave it there as I said I will believe what Farke said as he’s done a fantastic job and has been pretty honest with fans from day one till the end, Drmic and Leitner had an ego which they couldn’t fulfil and we’re shipped on, I don’t think anyone of would complain with their departures!

I'm not explaining myself well.

Hoggy made an assumption that Todd was a naughty boy, we can't actually prove that with facts.

Farke made several comments about Todd, these were not completely logical and seemed to raise more questions than answers. Uncannily similar to the way Farke dealt with previous players who asked questions. 

We've all seen that play out, that's not making assumptions. 

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2 minutes ago, Number9 said:

I'm not explaining myself well.

Hoggy made an assumption that Todd was a naughty boy, we can't actually prove that with facts.

Farke made several comments about Todd, these were not completely logical and seemed to raise more questions than answers. Uncannily similar to the way Farke dealt with previous players who asked questions. 

We've all seen that play out, that's not making assumptions. 

You’re making the assumption that Cantwell questioned Farke! There’s no proof……ergo you’re making the same assumption that Hoggy is just from Cantwell side! 😂👍
The reality is he and Farke have been good for each other and we all want a focused fit Cantwell back in the team….

Edited by Indy
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21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

At the end of the week leading up to the Brentford match it was mentioned.  Don't ask me where, I can't remember.

No mention of it in the pre Brentford press conference.

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So basically it’s wrong to make any assumptions based on Farke’s actual comments or the fact he is totally absent from the senior squad, or the fact it’s the second time he’s been caught up with some kind of focus issue.

But perfectly fine to assume that Farke is a liar who banishes quality players from the squad for no good reason (even though he’s had a good reason to banish every player from the squad previous to Todd).

I think I’m getting it now! 

Also, this is what I said earlier on the situation before anyone accuses me of making Cantwell out as the ‘worst employee ever’:

’I can definitely believe that Farke wasn't a totally innocent party and perhaps could've been harder on the lad than other managers. However, I totally fail to believe that this harshness didn't come from an initial failing on Todd's side of some kind.’

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