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Cantwell has a message for us Norwich faithful

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12 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Fergie may have given out the hairdryer treatment (as you say, it was of it's day) but he played his best players to win games. 

He sold all of them the moment they crossed him.

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52 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

What do you mean by 'other than what Farke has inferred', did you need more proof than that? 

Farke certainly would not isolate our best creative talent from the picture when the first team was in desperate need of an in form Cantwell for no good reason now would he? 

Farke was always a very principled man and maybe a bit stubborn in his ways, but was always forthcoming that he simply doesn't accept less than 100% commitment to the cause - we saw this in action with Oliveira pretty early on in his tenure and then Leitner too who couldn't comply with this ethos.

If it isn't a lack of focus or professionalism with Cantwell then what else would you call it? We all know he's good enough to play. 

Ask yourself why Cantwell receives that treatment, when we all are so aware of his talents (as was Farke), yet no one else with comparable ability at the club ever has been. When was Aarons frozen to the under-23s? What about Godfrey, Lewis, Omobamidele, Idah?

The only examples you can point to are ones where either; 1) the player loss commitment to the cause (Leitner), or 2) the player is no longer considered part of the first team.

And yes I'm sure his team mates are behind him, and I'm sure Webber wants him to come back into the team under a fresh start. Not sure what that proves exactly? It would make little sense to continue punishing Cantwell for failing to comply with a manager's ethos who is no longer at the club.

I'd also say all his social media posts around football and the cryptic stuff he likes to share for a reaction are an indication of someone who isn't the most mature, nor the most professional and focused person in the squad. Again, show me when Aarons, Godfrey, Lewis, Omobamidele and Idah have done that? 

How much more evidence do you need?

For a start I wouldn't judge a player on their social media or how mature I think they are. Farke should have been able to deal with this as a professional manager. Other players have been ignored this season Tzolis and Gilmour so that's 3 of our best creative players, I can't think of a good reason. Perhaps they're not mature enough either, creative but not mature. Whenever I've seen Cantwell interviewed he seems quite intelligent and well adjusted. 

If Farke doesn't accept less than 100% what happened with the Chelsea game? The creative players were still ignored. Much of what he says is spin. If Webber thought Cantwell deserved his punishment he would not have let him back in, he has always said that he only wants players who want to be here. 

It could have been a difference of opinion as was the case with Leitner, for which the club suffered. Senior players were consulted before the sacking decision was made, they know what happened more than us. 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He sold all of them the moment they crossed him.

He played them til they were sold generally, retaining there value to the club.

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3 hours ago, Indy said:

Sorry WOS, but at present he’s not anywhere near the team, he’s not had full training sessions, Farke has been very protective of Cantwell encouraging him to get the two weeks of full training behind him to get back, none of us know why he’s not been fully involved. The one common thread through this is we all want the best focused Cantwell back in the starting 11! I can’t see any really negative comments more of discussing how he can be bought back into the fold quickly fully focused! 

Farke has not been “protective” of him. Farke has ostracised him and implied he’s not been training properly with him having no right of reply. Quite the opposite of protective. 

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32 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

For a start I wouldn't judge a player on their social media or how mature I think they are. Farke should have been able to deal with this as a professional manager. Other players have been ignored this season Tzolis and Gilmour so that's 3 of our best creative players, I can't think of a good reason. Perhaps they're not mature enough either, creative but not mature. Whenever I've seen Cantwell interviewed he seems quite intelligent and well adjusted. 

If Farke doesn't accept less than 100% what happened with the Chelsea game? The creative players were still ignored. Much of what he says is spin. If Webber thought Cantwell deserved his punishment he would not have let him back in, he has always said that he only wants players who want to be here. 

It could have been a difference of opinion as was the case with Leitner, for which the club suffered. Senior players were consulted before the sacking decision was made, they know what happened more than us. 

 

 

 

It seems very contradictory to refuse to judge a player on their social media, but to then also judge how a manager deals with said player in the absence of any useful information as to what the problem is. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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2 hours ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

The reality is that if we were sitting in 11th people would be celebrating Farke's toughness and Todd would have been back training hard to get back in.

Fine margins sometimes. This time it backfired on Farke and people are behind Todd... until he does it again, which he probably will.

We're not 11th though, we're bottom, that's not a fine margin. Farke has got to take responsibility for the decisions he makes

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Happily hold my hands up and say I didn't know the post was from so long ago, but regardless it is a Norwich City subject and as such is up for discussion.

I want Todd to play and fulfill all his undoubted potential, it would be fantastic. All I'm saying is similar to the sentiments above, Farke has a great reputation for bringing on young players and in general is known as firm but fair. Has TC honestly done nothing to deserve being removed from the group?

Suppose we will find out from here on.

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6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You won't judge a player on their social media, but you will judge a manager with a complete lack of information regarding why they've made the decisions they've made regarding a player who clearly has some sort of issue. 

Farke was judged by the club on our position. By people who know what happened. We don't know because Farke gave a different excuse every week

 

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2 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

Farke was judged by the club on our position. By people who know what happened. We don't know because Farke gave a different excuse every week

 

He was judged on our performance ths season. He wasn't judged because of his chosen approach to disciplining young players; if he was being judged on that, he'd have gone at the start of last season when he dropped Buendia and Cantwell for being sub par (and they came back better). 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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10 hours ago, Star55 said:

Here is a post that TC posted this weekend but Cambridge Canary chose to post an old pic with his dog about not playing games to stir up things.

To me this post seems that he is in a more positive place.  

Capture.PNG.6f759f9931bef32cbcb843606e456ffe.PNG

Thanks for posting that, if what your saying is right it seems like Cambridge has much bigger issues than Todd

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1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Social media again guys…

You know I’m right…

Right with what ? - you havent said anything yet.

Please explain your views..............

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2 hours ago, curious yellow said:

For a start I wouldn't judge a player on their social media or how mature I think they are. Farke should have been able to deal with this as a professional manager. Other players have been ignored this season Tzolis and Gilmour so that's 3 of our best creative players, I can't think of a good reason. Perhaps they're not mature enough either, creative but not mature. Whenever I've seen Cantwell interviewed he seems quite intelligent and well adjusted. 

If Farke doesn't accept less than 100% what happened with the Chelsea game? The creative players were still ignored. Much of what he says is spin. If Webber thought Cantwell deserved his punishment he would not have let him back in, he has always said that he only wants players who want to be here. 

It could have been a difference of opinion as was the case with Leitner, for which the club suffered. Senior players were consulted before the sacking decision was made, they know what happened more than us. 

Why can’t I draw any opinions from his social media? Surely that is one of the only useful reference points towards his personality and some kind of idea of goings on behind the scenes. The fact his posts are chalk and cheese compared to players like Aarons and Godfrey says something to me about his focus and maturity. And to be clear - I’m not saying he’s a massively bad egg or anything extreme, he seems a good lad in interviews like you say, but I just don’t think he’s been able to get his head down in quite the same way those players have and others in the team. Which is something Farke has always been clear on. If he had been able to then there never would’ve been an issue. That’s a clear fact in my mind.

Sorry but how are Gilmour and Tzolis comparable examples to Cantwell? Not even close to the same. 1) there’s been no nonsense about them being unavailable for months, 2) they’ve both been on the bench every game despite not starting and 3) Tzolis played 30 minutes against Leeds 2 games ago. Yes I agree those players could’ve played more, and I did want to see more of them, but they’re very clearly available for selection just weren’t fancied by Farke whereas Cantwell was out of the picture completely with the under-23s!

And it makes no sense for Webber to continue punishing Cantwell when Farke is no longer there. New brooms sweep clean and why would you maintain past deteriorations in a relationship when the whole idea of a fresh face in charge is to give everyone a new chance? I mean unless Cantwell had punched someone or something ridiculous. 

I don’t have a problem with Farke being sacked, and I’m sure there were plenty issues behind the scenes, but I’m 100% sure that Cantwell did not simply get frozen out by Farke because he didn’t like his face.

I just find it a bit sad that now Farke is going to get painted as some tyrant and Cantwell as just some innocent party for fell victim to Farke’s terrible treatment. Farke deserves a bit better than that having brought through the best crop of young players - like Cantwell - the club has ever seen. 

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1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Why can’t I draw any opinions from his social media? Surely that is one of the only useful reference points towards his personality and some kind of idea of goings on behind the scenes. The fact his posts are chalk and cheese compared to players like Aarons and Godfrey says something to me about his focus and maturity. And to be clear - I’m not saying he’s a massively bad egg or anything extreme, he seems a good lad in interviews like you say, but I just don’t think he’s been able to get his head down in quite the same way those players have and others in the team. Which is something Farke has always been clear on. If he had been able to then there never would’ve been an issue. That’s a clear fact in my mind.

Sorry but how are Gilmour and Tzolis comparable examples to Cantwell? Not even close to the same. 1) there’s been no nonsense about them being unavailable for months, 2) they’ve both been on the bench every game despite not starting and 3) Tzolis played 30 minutes against Leeds 2 games ago. Yes I agree those players could’ve played more, and I did want to see more of them, but they’re very clearly available for selection just weren’t fancied by Farke whereas Cantwell was out of the picture completely with the under-23s!

And it makes no sense for Webber to continue punishing Cantwell when Farke is no longer there. New brooms sweep clean and why would you maintain past deteriorations in a relationship when the whole idea of a fresh face in charge is to give everyone a new chance? I mean unless Cantwell had punched someone or something ridiculous. 

I don’t have a problem with Farke being sacked, and I’m sure there were plenty issues behind the scenes, but I’m 100% sure that Cantwell did not simply get frozen out by Farke because he didn’t like his face.

I just find it a bit sad that now Farke is going to get painted as some tyrant and Cantwell as just some innocent party for fell victim to Farke’s terrible treatment. Farke deserves a bit better than that having brought through the best crop of young players - like Cantwell - the club has ever seen. 

Wish he had come up through a background like Mane and not a middle class upbringing from Dereham 

 

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45 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Why can’t I draw any opinions from his social media? Surely that is one of the only useful reference points towards his personality and some kind of idea of goings on behind the scenes. The fact his posts are chalk and cheese compared to players like Aarons and Godfrey says something to me about his focus and maturity. And to be clear - I’m not saying he’s a massively bad egg or anything extreme, he seems a good lad in interviews like you say, but I just don’t think he’s been able to get his head down in quite the same way those players have and others in the team. Which is something Farke has always been clear on. If he had been able to then there never would’ve been an issue. That’s a clear fact in my mind.

Sorry but how are Gilmour and Tzolis comparable examples to Cantwell? Not even close to the same. 1) there’s been no nonsense about them being unavailable for months, 2) they’ve both been on the bench every game despite not starting and 3) Tzolis played 30 minutes against Leeds 2 games ago. Yes I agree those players could’ve played more, and I did want to see more of them, but they’re very clearly available for selection just weren’t fancied by Farke whereas Cantwell was out of the picture completely with the under-23s!

And it makes no sense for Webber to continue punishing Cantwell when Farke is no longer there. New brooms sweep clean and why would you maintain past deteriorations in a relationship when the whole idea of a fresh face in charge is to give everyone a new chance? I mean unless Cantwell had punched someone or something ridiculous. 

I don’t have a problem with Farke being sacked, and I’m sure there were plenty issues behind the scenes, but I’m 100% sure that Cantwell did not simply get frozen out by Farke because he didn’t like his face.

I just find it a bit sad that now Farke is going to get painted as some tyrant and Cantwell as just some innocent party for fell victim to Farke’s terrible treatment. Farke deserves a bit better than that having brought through the best crop of young players - like Cantwell - the club has ever seen. 

There is no doubt Farke has done a fantastic job for the club and I have been very supportive of him until recently. I don't think anyone will think of him as a tyrant but if he wants a top job he is going to have to deal with players better. 

I don't like the reputation Leitner got, as far as I know he called Farke a "bad manager" after being subbed and never played again in the league. Farke put it down to "lack of focus in training" Sad really because Leitner was a class signing, could really control a game, scored against Ipswich. His career was badly set back by this reputation and subsequent treatment that he didn't deserve. Same with Trybull but we couldn't pin the trouble tag on him. Two important players in our most enjoyable season. 

Now the same thing has happened to Cantwell, our longest serving player, someone we valued at £40M - more than Emi- because he is so important to the team. He is dropped after 3 games in which he has made more tackles than anyone in the Prem, so we've over priced him to keep him at the club, then after 3 "unwinnable games" we've gradually phased him out to the indignity of the U23s. Severe punishment for what you consider a forgivable offence. 

Gilmour is loaned in so he can get game time to help his career, McLean and Hanley help to persuade him to come, imagine how they feel as Gilmour watches the likes of Rupp and Placheta come on as subs. Gilmour played well on his last appearance but was never going to be used and was kept on the bench as a gesture. What player was ever going to want to join us having witnessed that treatment? What did Sorensen do wrong? He deserved a chance after last season. 

Cantwell does not deserve the name calling and criticism - which is mostly presumed- that he gets on here persistently. It's OK to say he's got to do this and that to get back in the team but he is holding all the cards because of his contract. It said on a Leeds site that he wants to leave because of the criticism he gets from his own fans, probably not true but what a bad reflection on us if it is. All this because of a regurgitated harmless Instagram post

 

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4 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Happily hold my hands up and say I didn't know the post was from so long ago, but regardless it is a Norwich City subject and as such is up for discussion.

I want Todd to play and fulfill all his undoubted potential, it would be fantastic. All I'm saying is similar to the sentiments above, Farke has a great reputation for bringing on young players and in general is known as firm but fair. Has TC honestly done nothing to deserve being removed from the group?

Suppose we will find out from here on.

Farke generally made the right decisions with young players and you'd have to assume Todd likely caused the rift somehow or someway. 

Regardless that has nothing to do with the weird obsession middle aged men have ripping into everything a 23 year old young footballer posts on social media.

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4 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

There is no doubt Farke has done a fantastic job for the club and I have been very supportive of him until recently. I don't think anyone will think of him as a tyrant but if he wants a top job he is going to have to deal with players better. 

I don't like the reputation Leitner got, as far as I know he called Farke a "bad manager" after being subbed and never played again in the league. Farke put it down to "lack of focus in training" Sad really because Leitner was a class signing, could really control a game, scored against Ipswich. His career was badly set back by this reputation and subsequent treatment that he didn't deserve. Same with Trybull but we couldn't pin the trouble tag on him. Two important players in our most enjoyable season. 

Now the same thing has happened to Cantwell, our longest serving player, someone we valued at £40M - more than Emi- because he is so important to the team. He is dropped after 3 games in which he has made more tackles than anyone in the Prem, so we've over priced him to keep him at the club, then after 3 "unwinnable games" we've gradually phased him out to the indignity of the U23s. Severe punishment for what you consider a forgivable offence. 

Gilmour is loaned in so he can get game time to help his career, McLean and Hanley help to persuade him to come, imagine how they feel as Gilmour watches the likes of Rupp and Placheta come on as subs. Gilmour played well on his last appearance but was never going to be used and was kept on the bench as a gesture. What player was ever going to want to join us having witnessed that treatment? What did Sorensen do wrong? He deserved a chance after last season. 

Cantwell does not deserve the name calling and criticism - which is mostly presumed- that he gets on here persistently. It's OK to say he's got to do this and that to get back in the team but he is holding all the cards because of his contract. It said on a Leeds site that he wants to leave because of the criticism he gets from his own fans, probably not true but what a bad reflection on us if it is. All this because of a regurgitated harmless Instagram post

 

Some good points in there. 

I think the Leitner issue was more than that, pretty sure I recall some petulance at Carrow Road with him kicking an advertising hoarding rather publicly - god knows what was said behind the scenes around that time but he clearly didn't take well to not playing and that kind of thing was fairly commonplace in previous clubs I believe. 

Trybull is different as the reason Farke phased him out is because he no longer saw him as a first team player. We know Cantwell is plenty good enough so its clearly not that with him. Say what you want about the the ruthlessness of that, and I would agree.

Gilmour has struggled physically in a lot of games this season, and Farke clearly preferred more dynamic central midfielders  (McLean, Normann and Lees-Melou are far more mobile and far stronger in the tackle). I don't think anyone has fallen out with anyone there. 

I don't know why Sorensen hasn't played a bit more, but he featured in the cup quite recently and is regularly on the bench so I wouldn't say he's been 'frozen out', he has just been an unfancied player. Again it could be a physicality thing as although he's very decent in the tackle he hardly covers much ground and has a very slow, measured pace to his game.

So sadly for Todd I'm not really seeing much relevant examples to his situation. The only relatable time with a player of a similar standing was when Buendia was dropped at the same time as him last year, but that situation was resolved much faster than whatever has happened with Todd this year. 

And I've always agreed RE the abuse and name calling, that's not on, but criticism? I think that's pretty deserved. Do you honestly believe Farke would shoot himself in the foot so badly without a fairly solid reason? What do you think happened if not what I have suggested?

PS I don't want to come across as a big pile on on Cantwell, my subsequent responses in this thread have been to reiterate my view rather than to continue digging at him. I really hope he sorts it out and I will bear no grudges for seeing him come back. However he has much less rope from me going forwards if there is any more silliness - I've backed him 100% twice now and starting to question a little if he deserved it. We will see!

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Be very interesting to see what team Mr Smith picks for Saturday given he’s obviously been reading all the suggestions from us. 
Imagine he will probably join the forum to get all the inside info and make contact with a few to help with his selection on Saturday 

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9 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

PS I don't want to come across as a big pile on on Cantwell, my subsequent responses in this thread have been to reiterate my view rather than to continue digging at him. I really hope he sorts it out and I will bear no grudges for seeing him come back. However he has much less rope from me going forwards if there is any more silliness - I've backed him 100% twice now and starting to question a little if he deserved it. We will see!

^^^This.  There are question marks, whatever anyone says and he has answered his critics in the past, but this latest thing with being out of favour - whatever the reason - is almost one too many and he needs to do his business on the field if he doesn't want a poor reputation moving forwards.  He may not give a monkeys what others think, who knows, but we need him doing well on the field more often, doing what he is paid for.

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10 hours ago, daly said:

Be very interesting to see what team Mr Smith picks for Saturday given he’s obviously been reading all the suggestions from us. 
Imagine he will probably join the forum to get all the inside info and make contact with a few to help with his selection on Saturday 

Which few would you recommend? 

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 I imagine Smith will know everything about what has gone on if there has been a falling out and Todd was anyway in the wrong 

you would think he would say ok Todd clean slate but you do not do this XYZ under my managerment ,

Get your head down you are part of my plans do what you do best ,

and that is not just Todd 

say another player is late for training etc smith should know from webber have have a little chat 

I heard you are late a few times that stops now clean slate but if you do it with me you will be out 

I think that is what might be good for the club a fresh start no favourites everyone starting fresh 

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35 minutes ago, Galactico said:

The people who rush to judgment without knowing any of the facts are the ones who really need to grow up; not Cantwell. 

What's your take on the situation then, both times?

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12 hours ago, daly said:

Be very interesting to see what team Mr Smith picks for Saturday given he’s obviously been reading all the suggestions from us. 
Imagine he will probably join the forum to get all the inside info and make contact with a few to help with his selection on Saturday 

I would imagine it was the first thing Webber said to him; get yourself on the Pinkun, there's a wealth of knowledge there. Don't bother to hear what I think or talk to Todd, they know it all there.

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19 hours ago, Galactico said:

The people who rush to judgment without knowing any of the facts are the ones who really need to grow up; not Cantwell. 

I have only just read some of this. The whole thread has been the most depressing thing I have ever read on here, or am ever likely to read. Attempted cyber-bullying, invention dressed-up as fact, the whole myth that you cannot train and post on social media (!!!), insincerity, total ignorance of the facts, pretence that Todd hasn't behaved well or trained well, an unnatural attraction to whatever he does, and a failure to grasp the situation. 

Above all else, the suggestion that a young footballer should be hounded off social media because he posted a picture off him playing with his dog, with a fairly opaque message attached.

Shame, shame, shame. What a sad reflection on some of our contributors. 

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32 minutes ago, Pugin said:

I have only just read some of this. The whole thread has been the most depressing thing I have ever read on here, or am ever likely to read. Attempted cyber-bullying, invention dressed-up as fact, the whole myth that you cannot train and post on social media (!!!), insincerity, total ignorance of the facts, pretence that Todd hasn't behaved well or trained well, an unnatural attraction to whatever he does, and a failure to grasp the situation. 

Above all else, the suggestion that a young footballer should be hounded off social media because he posted a picture off him playing with his dog, with a fairly opaque message attached.

Shame, shame, shame. What a sad reflection on some of our contributors. 

The only thing we know is that Daniel Farke excluded him from the first team for unknown reasons, but with a stated policy that he would be included once he had gone two weeks without injury and without failing to turn up for training. Both of those criteria are perfectly good grounds for his exclusion, the first being a circumstance out of anyone's control and the second being a failure on the part of Todd as a professional footballer. 

This whole debate stems from an unjustified failure to respect Farke's judgement in handling young players. It will be interesting to see what happens with the new management. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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