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Cantwell has a message for us Norwich faithful

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55 minutes ago, Indy said:

What you’ve just done there is ignored the details in press conferences and info out of the club and then made a set of assumptions! Now do you see you the irony of your response to Hoggy! I’ll leave it there as I said I will believe what Farke said as he’s done a fantastic job and has been pretty honest with fans from day one till the end, Drmic and Leitner had an ego which they couldn’t fulfil and we’re shipped on, I don’t think anyone of would complain with their departures!

You forgot Trybull and probably Klose. I would definitely complain. 3 players who played an important part in our promotion season Disgusting childish treatment to freeze anybody out like that. It must have cost us a fortune in wages and pay offs, how could we make such mistakes so long after renewing and giving them such long contracts? And it looked like it was happening again so we can draw our own conclusions. 

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1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:
1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

At the end of the week leading up to the Brentford match it was mentioned.  Don't ask me where, I can't remember.

No mention of it in the pre Brentford press conference.

Farke had said Cantwell had to show good training for two weeks then he would be back - as long as he did that training. That was well previous to the Brentford match. Might have Paddy in a podcast or maybe Bailey where it was talked about in the week before the Brentford match that he would be back after that match. I thought it was common knowledge.

 

Edited by lake district canary

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F it. Give him a game this Saturday to sink or swim or angle in an interview with both of them(manager+todd) stating he's not fit.

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3 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

You forgot Trybull and probably Klose. I would definitely complain. 3 players who played an important part in our promotion season Disgusting childish treatment to freeze anybody out like that. It must have cost us a fortune in wages and pay offs, how could we make such mistakes so long after renewing and giving them such long contracts? And it looked like it was happening again so we can draw our own conclusions. 

I’m not sure Klose was ever frozen out, more injured and never got back to full potential again. Trybull we’ll just not good enough, the same as Rupp, better got ahead of him.

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7 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

You forgot Trybull and probably Klose. I would definitely complain. 3 players who played an important part in our promotion season Disgusting childish treatment to freeze anybody out like that. It must have cost us a fortune in wages and pay offs, how could we make such mistakes so long after renewing and giving them such long contracts? And it looked like it was happening again so we can draw our own conclusions. 

I agree the treatment of players has been harsh and ruthless in some cases under this regime. 

But Trybull wasn't deemed capable of contributing the first team anymore, so were asked to move on and weren't given opportunity to poke their foot back in the door. 

Do you think Farke deemed Cantwell as no longer good enough for the first team? Our brightest creative talent at the club? Come on now sir!

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler

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2 minutes ago, Indy said:

I’m not sure Klose was ever frozen out, more injured and never got back to full potential again. Trybull we’ll just not good enough, the same as Rupp, better got ahead of him.

Agreed on Klose.

I do think we could've made more use of Trybull to be fair, he was a good player in the champs, and probably would've faired better in the prem as well as players like Stiepermann and McLean did - so a bit harsh he fell on the wrong side when other players were kept on board. 

But its just not the same as Cantwell. There is absolutely no question in anyone's mind as to whether he is good enough for this team or not - especially after we lost Buendia in the summer.

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8 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I agree the treatment of players has been harsh and ruthless in some cases under this regime. 

But Trybull wasn't deemed capable of contributing the first team anymore, so were asked to move on and weren't given opportunity to poke their foot back in the door. 

Do you think Farke deemed Cantwell as no longer good enough for the first team? Our brightest creative talent at the club? Come on now sir!

There were probably different reasons why players were told not to train with the first team and there were so many they had to have their own coach(ironic that it was someone who had committed a serious offence in the past) 

This suggests that problems were not dealt with in the correct way. Farke would talk about how high his level of expectancy was and then play injured players. 

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23 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

There is absolutely no question in anyone's mind as to whether he is good enough for this team or not

Only if he is totally focussed on the football. He has been put for a reason, not becuase he isn't good enough. Farke has been consistent all the time he was here - if a player loses their way, they are told to get themselves sorted.  He did it with Buendia and Cantwell before - and they did get themselves sorted before.  The other players that fell foul of him were frozen out compeltely and for good reason (thinking of Oliveira and Leitner) but again this time he was giving Cantwell the chance to get back to full focus and match fitness.

So he is good enough, but only if his head is right and I hope he is sorted now, fully fit and prepared to fight for his place in the team - which is not a gimme.

Edited by lake district canary
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15 minutes ago, Diane said:

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/ncfc-chief-on-cantwell-and-gilmour-fresh-start-8498344

Good to hear that Todd has worked hard all through the International Break, new start for him so how about we get behind him instead of continually slating him ??

 

Yep, one bit on that article though:

Quote

Star academy product Cantwell and Chelsea loanee Gilmour fell out of favour during the latter stages of Daniel Farke’s reign, with Cantwell close to entering the final six months of his contract – although with the Canaries holding the option for a further six months. 

Do 6-month options exist? I always thought it was a year.

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at one point we had to play Stieperman up front due to injuries despite having an actual striker in the squad but training in another country on his own

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We are talking about a manager with an excellent record of working with and developing young players, yes we can ask questions but I have no doubt that the decisions Farke made about how he managed individuals were done for the right reasons. You won’t find any decent manager who manages to keep everyone happy all of the time.

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1 minute ago, Haus said:

at one point we had to play Stieperman up front due to injuries despite having an actual striker in the squad but training in another country on his own

I am not sure if we should compare how Farke handled other players (Leitner, Drmic etc) with how he has treated Billy Gilmour and Todd Cantwell. Billy is a proven talent and Todd is a player who (I think I am right in saying) has been statistically the hardest working player in every single game he has played, minute for minute.

Let's move on from the Cult of Farke. It had its day, and it ended with him seemingly obsessed with his own infallibility, at the expense of the club.   

Saturday will see a great performance from the lads, I am absolutely sure of it. The weight will have been lifted and self-expression will be back.

Elsewhere on another post, a couple of people said we need to drop Teemu deeper, at the age of 31. The solution on Saturday will be far simpler. We will play him within the areas where he is exceptional, not chasing lost causes across the width of the pitch because our shape is poor. 

I just cannot wait for Saturday. 

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6 minutes ago, Pugin said:

I am not sure if we should compare how Farke handled other players (Leitner, Drmic etc) with how he has treated Billy Gilmour and Todd Cantwell. Billy is a proven talent and Todd is a player who (I think I am right in saying) has been statistically the hardest working player in every single game he has played, minute for minute.

Let's move on from the Cult of Farke. It had its day, and it ended with him seemingly obsessed with his own infallibility, at the expense of the club.   

Saturday will see a great performance from the lads, I am absolutely sure of it. The weight will have been lifted and self-expression will be back.

Elsewhere on another post, a couple of people said we need to drop Teemu deeper, at the age of 31. The solution on Saturday will be far simpler. We will play him within the areas where he is exceptional, not chasing lost causes across the width of the pitch because our shape is poor. 

I just cannot wait for Saturday. 

Well said Pugin! More than happy to call a cease fire on this... 🤝

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I'm afraid the proof is in the pudding (team performance) with all management decsions.

Hypothetical scenario....

If there is disquiet in the group, caused by the team perfoming poorly, with one or two players openly questioning the managers decisons (formations, team sellection etc), then it might be to the teams benefit that that those people are removed from it, either permanantly or temporarily. If that management decsion works and the remaining group start to pull together and performances improve then the tactic is a success.

Unfortunately though if the team continues to struggle there will be fingers pointed at the decision and ultimately there will be more disquiet rather than less. Not such a problem when the team is winning and the players affected are not vital to the team but when the team is bottom of the league and the player(s) removed from it are seen by many as possible solutions to improved performance then it becomes a very high risk startegy.

At that stage it is up to the manager to change tack and look to resolve the problem in a different way. That's why it's such a difficult job. 

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12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Farke had said Cantwell had to show good training for two weeks then he would be back - as long as he did that training. That was well previous to the Brentford match. Might have Paddy in a podcast or maybe Bailey where it was talked about in the week before the Brentford match that he would be back after that match. I thought it was common knowledge.

 

Dean Smith has said yesterday (according to a post on here) that Cantwell is to be given a fresh start which tneds to suggest he was until now still on the naughty step.

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57 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Dean Smith has said yesterday (according to a post on here) that Cantwell is to be given a fresh start which tneds to suggest he was until now still on the naughty step.

He was given his 'fresh start' and welcomed back into the first team group at the team meeting ay 10pm at Colney on the night of the Brentford win.

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1 hour ago, Hairy Canary said:

I'm afraid the proof is in the pudding (team performance) with all management decsions.

Hypothetical scenario....

If there is disquiet in the group, caused by the team perfoming poorly, with one or two players openly questioning the managers decisons (formations, team sellection etc), then it might be to the teams benefit that that those people are removed from it, either permanantly or temporarily. If that management decsion works and the remaining group start to pull together and performances improve then the tactic is a success.

Unfortunately though if the team continues to struggle there will be fingers pointed at the decision and ultimately there will be more disquiet rather than less. Not such a problem when the team is winning and the players affected are not vital to the team but when the team is bottom of the league and the player(s) removed from it are seen by many as possible solutions to improved performance then it becomes a very high risk startegy.

At that stage it is up to the manager to change tack and look to resolve the problem in a different way. That's why it's such a difficult job. 

It probably comes to the point where it is an impossible job.  Farke was unlucky imo. After the first promotion, which was amazing, we had  the PL season with all those injuries, then the trauma of lockdown and trying to come out of that. Then the most brilliant of promotion seasons but with no fans - only to be faced with so many changes to the squad, more covid interuptions to pre-season, a fixture list designed to kill us off before we even started (random, my ar$e) late arrivals of players............how was he supposed to build a team capalble of getting good results against established PL teams through all that?  And on top of that, one or two players causing issues he could have done without.....and if...I say if....Cantwell and maybe others, who would be understandiby unhappy at not playing - have been giving him problems about not being picked then he would have been quite within his rights to deal with that in whatever way he felt was right.  I thought TC was going to be back anyway after the Brentford match, that he had done the work required, but the way people are talking about TC having a fresh start the moment Farke left is slightly irritating to me - after all, he was out of favour for a reason - and ok, a fresh start, yes, but he now needs to deliver. 

 

Edited by lake district canary
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12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It probably comes to the point where it is an impossible job.  Farke was unlucky imo. After the first promotion, which was amazing, we had  the PL season with all those injuries, then the trauma of lockdown and trying to come out of that. Then the most brilliant of promotion seasons but with no fans - only to be faced with so many changes to the squad, more covid interuptions to pre-season, a fixture list designed to kill us off before we even started (random, my ar$e) late arrivals of players............how was he supposed to build a team capalble of getting good results against established PL teams through all that?  And on top of that, one or two players causing issues he could have done without.....and if...I say if....Cantwell and maybe others, who would be understandiby unhappy at not playing - have been giving him problems about not being picked then he would have been quite within his rights to deal with that in whatever way he felt was right.  I thought TC was going to be back anyway after the Brentford match, that he had done the work required, but the way people are talking about TC having a fresh start the moment Farke left is slightly irritating to me - after all, he was out of favour for a reason - and ok, a fresh start, yes, but he now needs to deliver. 

 

Quite agree with pretty much all that LDC.

The bit in bold was the main point I was trying to get across. Farke dealt with it in the way he felt was right of course, but he has to stand or fall on the outcome of his choice. I'm afraid being bottom of the league shines a harsh light on such decisions.

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4 hours ago, hogesar said:

Yep, one bit on that article though:

Do 6-month options exist? I always thought it was a year.

Got to imagine that is a typo- a 6 month option would be bizarre.

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