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cambridgeshire canary

Is Smith better than Farke?

Whos better Farke or Smith?  

79 members have voted

  1. 1. Whos better Farke or Smith?

    • Farke
      36
    • Smith
      18
    • Unsure
      24


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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Look into Smith, his experience etc and then you’ll see why that’s just rubbish, but to a certain extent it’s also irrelevant - the alternative is to whinge endlessly about it…is that what you’re going to do?  

Also, Dean is 50 years old and Villa has been the first job in football he has ever been sacked from. He must be doing something right,

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9 minutes ago, VillaFan said:

Villa Fan in Peace...

Just a few things on Smith.

- I see talk that Ings and Watkins were forced on him. While Brentford manager, Smith bought Watkins from Exeter and then again as Villa manager. I really doubt Watkins was forced on him. Ings on the other had, yes it appears he was forced on him

-Smith had loads of money and lost 5 in a row and Villa were / are poor this season. We lost Grealish who was are talisman which is always difficult to recover from. We spent 95m on Buendia, Bailey and Ings. So far this season (11 games) they have only spent 24 minutes in total at the same time. He has not had a good run of injuriues

-Lost his 2 coaches in the summer (JT and Richard O Kelly), that hasn't helped. JT (I am not a fan of his) was a damn good defender and it is no surprise our defence has gone downhill since he left

- When we were promoted we lost 14 players that either had contracts expiring, too old or were on loan. The core of our team was ripped out. Yes he spent 140m on players but it wad a massive rebuild

- This season he switched to 3-5-2 after 3 years of 4-3-3. It is thought this was to try and fir Watkins and Ings into the same team. Also, rumoured that he didn't want to do this but Ings was forced on him and he needed to make it work

- Playing 4-3-3 is his sweet spot. For the first couple of years we played some very enjoyable football and during his time as Villa manager we have beaten. Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal (the double) and Leicester. He is good at picking up points against the big boys

- Good at developing youth and getting then into the 1st team

Negatives

- Maybe leaves subs too late but he is improving at this

- He doesn't change the game plan too often midgame. We set out as 4-3-3 and stick with it

 

Overall, I think he is a very competent coach, he is not Pep or Klopp but he doesn't claim to be. I suspect if he became Norwich manager you guys would come to like him and he would do a decent job for you

Thanks. I had heard the same thing said about the Ings transfer. My understanding, which may not be right, that  is that Purslow has most of the say on whom to buy.

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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

No, not at all,  it was clearly a joke, hence the 😀

I know,. my comment was just sarcasm. 

 

Wires crossed. 

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1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

Thanks. I had heard the same thing said about the Ings transfer. My understanding, which may not be right, that  is that Purslow has most of the say on whom to buy.

There was something wrong at Villa with regard to transfers. We replaced our Dir of Football last season too. I think Purslow wants Villa to have a certain image and he wants a manager and players that will help build that image. Deano is not the image Purslow wants, Gerrard is exactly the type of image Purslow likes

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17 minutes ago, VillaFan said:

Villa Fan in Peace...

Just a few things on Smith.

- I see talk that Ings and Watkins were forced on him. While Brentford manager, Smith bought Watkins from Exeter and then again as Villa manager. I really doubt Watkins was forced on him. Ings on the other had, yes it appears he was forced on him

-Smith had loads of money and lost 5 in a row and Villa were / are poor this season. We lost Grealish who was are talisman which is always difficult to recover from. We spent 95m on Buendia, Bailey and Ings. So far this season (11 games) they have only spent 24 minutes in total at the same time. He has not had a good run of injuriues

-Lost his 2 coaches in the summer (JT and Richard O Kelly), that hasn't helped. JT (I am not a fan of his) was a damn good defender and it is no surprise our defence has gone downhill since he left

- When we were promoted we lost 14 players that either had contracts expiring, too old or were on loan. The core of our team was ripped out. Yes he spent 140m on players but it wad a massive rebuild

- This season he switched to 3-5-2 after 3 years of 4-3-3. It is thought this was to try and fir Watkins and Ings into the same team. Also, rumoured that he didn't want to do this but Ings was forced on him and he needed to make it work

- Playing 4-3-3 is his sweet spot. For the first couple of years we played some very enjoyable football and during his time as Villa manager we have beaten. Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal (the double) and Leicester. He is good at picking up points against the big boys

- Good at developing youth and getting then into the 1st team

Negatives

- Maybe leaves subs too late but he is improving at this

- He doesn't change the game plan too often midgame. We set out as 4-3-3 and stick with it

 

Overall, I think he is a very competent coach, he is not Pep or Klopp but he doesn't claim to be. I suspect if he became Norwich manager you guys would come to like him and he would do a decent job for you

Thanks for this, puts a lot of context in place. The more I think about it the more I understand why he’s been offered the job and in our present situation he may be the best guy for the role.

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Posted before I saw the latest news. Anyone have thoughts on Craig Shakespear's record as a coach?

I was going to joke...much ado about nothing....but more seriously this position and role is the most important at the minute. We need to find a way to set up etc.

I found this piece which is interesting and encouraging. Albeit an AV perspective.

http://www.avillafan.com/33071/craig-shakespeare-a-key-influence-on-aston-villas-revival/

 

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I am happy that we have Gerrard in as our coach now. Things needed to change a bit. But I am also sorry to see Dean Smith leave. He was a good coach and he created a very good atmosphere at Villa. He also got us promoted, to a cup final and kept us in the PL. If you look at any Villa forums there is a huge amount of respect for Dean. Many fans are not happy he has gone and prefer him to Gerrard. It is very unusual to have a club sack a manager and have so many fans continue to talk so highly about him. There must be a reason for this

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Did Dean Smith miss John Terry as his Defence Coach at Villa ? Will be interesting to see who his Coaches are, IF he gets the job. Very sad losing Daniel Farke. Was / Is  there an outstanding candidate ?not sure. Can only wish them the best. Success for our Club is Staying Up. What a horrible statement. But that is Premier League Football  - $hite

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1 minute ago, sonyc said:

I was going to joke...much ado about nothing....but more seriously this position and role is the most important at the minute. We need to find a way to set up etc.

I found this piece which is interesting and encouraging. Albeit an AV perspective.

http://www.avillafan.com/33071/craig-shakespeare-a-key-influence-on-aston-villas-revival/

 

Villa's play showed a marked improvement when he joined us. He didn't do half bad at Leicester either and a lot of people put their PL title down to him as opposed to The Tinkerman. He is good imo

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1 minute ago, VillaFan said:

Also, Dean is 50 years old and Villa has been the first job in football he has ever been sacked from. He must be doing something right,

Quite so.

I think the thing for some is (as Purple mentioned above) that if his name was Herman Wolfswinkle or something, with the equivalent record in the Bundesliga I/II, those people who are down on it would probably be considering it a really good appointment. Unfortunately, he’s just Dean Smith, who’s managed Walsall and (a pre- PL) Brentford before ‘failing’ at Villa (their word not mine, promotion and 2 PL seasons isn’t too shoddy!).  But I think when people actually bother to look into his record and so on, they will consider it a potentially decent appointment.  

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6 minutes ago, VillaFan said:

I am happy that we have Gerrard in as our coach now. Things needed to change a bit. But I am also sorry to see Dean Smith leave. He was a good coach and he created a very good atmosphere at Villa. He also got us promoted, to a cup final and kept us in the PL. If you look at any Villa forums there is a huge amount of respect for Dean. Many fans are not happy he has gone and prefer him to Gerrard. It is very unusual to have a club sack a manager and have so many fans continue to talk so highly about him. There must be a reason for this

Just hang around here - some still can’t accept DF has gone!   Both are still highly regarded by supporters which is indeed unusual after a sacking. 

Edited by Branston Pickle

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I think this is pretty key. Before this season started I'm not sure anyone would consider swapping Farke for Smith.

Having seen us look worse than last time in the Prem, it certainly makes the question more difficult to answer.

Farke had an unbelievably difficult task with the resources at his disposal and the amount of work needed to develop the players to the level needed. Prospective managers clearly agree given their reluctance to take on a role that should be very attractive to anyone with enough talent and self-belief that they could do a better job than Farke was doing. 

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As several have said, Smith wasn't even available when Farke was given the boot, so he certainly wouldn't have been in their thinking at that time. For those who keep saying that his Premier League record is better than Farke (about anyone) that's a ridiculous statement without looking at the players available to either manager.

If Dean is not appointed, I withdraw all of this..!

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6 minutes ago, Walcombe canary said:

Did Dean Smith miss John Terry as his Defence Coach at Villa ? Will be interesting to see who his Coaches are, IF he gets the job. Very sad losing Daniel Farke. Was / Is  there an outstanding candidate ?not sure. Can only wish them the best. Success for our Club is Staying Up. What a horrible statement. But that is Premier League Football  - $hite

Yep we missed JT but we also missed ROK (Richard O Kelly) a lot. He was Dean's assistant at Brentford too. He is a proper old style coach and very good. There are rumours that Purslow wanted to demote ROK to youth setup and this was the start of the disharmony at Villa, ROK decided to leave Villa instead. If Dean becomes your manager and if ROK joins Norwich too then I think that would confirm that Purslow was getting involved in the footballing matters

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Just now, VillaFan said:

Yep we missed JT but we also missed ROK (Richard O Kelly) a lot. He was Dean's assistant at Brentford too. He is a proper old style coach and very good. There are rumours that Purslow wanted to demote ROK to youth setup and this was the start of the disharmony at Villa, ROK decided to leave Villa instead. If Dean becomes your manager and if ROK joins Norwich too then I think that would confirm that Purslow was getting involved in the footballing matters

It's looking like Shakespeare is the number two, so this O'Kelly isn't going to be an assistant as such. That said, Farke's sacking meant we lost Domogalla, Riemer and John at the same time, so Smith would probably bring some more in.

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1 hour ago, VillaFan said:

There was something wrong at Villa with regard to transfers. We replaced our Dir of Football last season too. I think Purslow wants Villa to have a certain image and he wants a manager and players that will help build that image. Deano is not the image Purslow wants, Gerrard is exactly the type of image Purslow likes

Thanks.

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I do also think that Farke's generally likeable nature means some are not really acknowledging how poor his record is at this level. 

I can't find any manager with a remotely comparable record. 0.53 ppg, 12% win percentage, with nearly 50 games under his belt. When we talk about the magical 40 point marker for survival, Farke would need 76 games to get there based on his current record. Two whole seasons to reach 40 points! 

Dean Smith's record ****s all over that. Over 1.1 ppg, 30%+ win rate etc etc. Sure he had a bigger budget but is that enough to explain double the points per game or more thab double win %? Not for me. 

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21 minutes ago, king canary said:

I do also think that Farke's generally likeable nature means some are not really acknowledging how poor his record is at this level. 

I can't find any manager with a remotely comparable record. 0.53 ppg, 12% win percentage, with nearly 50 games under his belt. When we talk about the magical 40 point marker for survival, Farke would need 76 games to get there based on his current record. Two whole seasons to reach 40 points! 

Dean Smith's record ****s all over that. Over 1.1 ppg, 30%+ win rate etc etc. Sure he had a bigger budget but is that enough to explain double the points per game or more thab double win %? Not for me. 

We shall see, 27 games to go and we can judge then how good Smith is compared to Farke, remember Farke was pretty much thrown into the premiership without much to work with the first season! 

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