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cambridgeshire canary

Gilmour playing like Pirlo for Scotland

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12 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

I agree he needs another chance but goooorrd he was crap for us. Sometimes it just doesn’t work at a team for whatever reason

Like Canos here.

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21 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

No, he's really been that bad. 

He hasn’t. This narrative has built up since he’s been left out to respond to Chelsea fans moaning about it but it’s not true. He wasn’t great but no worse than others who have continued to be picked. 

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He's clearly a talent, but hasn't shown anything in a Norwich shirt yet. He deserved to be dropped when he was.

However, I would like to see him get another chance alongside Normann now that the latter is bedded in well and looks handy in midfield. He could well open a little bit of space for Billy to shine.

Sometimes it just doesn't work out at a club, however.

 

 

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Perhaps a bit of a flat track bully like us in the Champs. Fine whilst playing against inferior sides when he has time and space to ping it around but lost in a side that needs to battle. The England match is often mentioned but let's face it we were dire and played not to lose. 

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Don’t shoot the messenger here but was listening to radio 5 live at the end of the Scotland game. The interesting comment was that now Farke has gone it won’t take the new manager long to realise he has a player head and shoulders above any other Norwich player.

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2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Don’t shoot the messenger here but was listening to radio 5 live at the end of the Scotland game. The interesting comment was that now Farke has gone it won’t take the new manager long to realise he has a player head and shoulders above any other Norwich player.

Would that be that wee Scottish midfielder Dan Druff?.....

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

He hasn’t. This narrative has built up since he’s been left out to respond to Chelsea fans moaning about it but it’s not true. He wasn’t great but no worse than others who have continued to be picked. 

No, he's been awful.

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9 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

No, he's been awful.

🤣🤣🤣💤💤warming the bench for the last five games. Good call.

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I can't believe people are so ignorant about the nuances of football. There's more to playing in midfield than hitting killer passes.

Gilmour undoubtedly has great ability on the ball and enormous talent at reading movement in front of him. However, that's only half of his job.

He also needs to work off the ball, track runs, close spaces. There are big gaps there. He seems to lack physicality and work rate when out of possession. He seems to be treading water rather than putting his all into doing the ugly bits of the game.

I imagine part of it is experience and part of it is desire. It will certainly improve as he matures, but we don't have the luxury of giving him the time to learn through his mistakes.

Because we're already a team of raw talent and potential, we're fragile. When it clicks it's exquisite, but it can fall apart in seconds. We need a solid core to hold it all together. Gilmour is not dependable enough to do that when surrounded by the level of fragility we currently have.

Maybe our new coach will have the skills required to bring this side of his game up to standard. Maybe Farke has already set the wheels in motion behind the scenes. Billy could well do a job for us this season, but he needs to start by doing the basics consistently. 

 

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On 12/11/2021 at 18:35, mannings bandy legs said:

Its Moldova......

 

On 12/11/2021 at 18:36, crab man said:

vs the mighty moldova.... bit of a difference to doing it in the prem 😂  perhaps he's found his level. 

 

On 12/11/2021 at 18:55, Petriix said:

It was basically a Championship vs League 2 encounter. Gilmour looks great with the ball, as always. But there are so many flaws with his general positioning and movement when they don't have the ball. He seems to have absolutely no clue how to actually track his man and stay goal side. Not a problem VS Moldova, but a definite limitation when in a relegation dog fight.

 

On 12/11/2021 at 19:37, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I'd look like Usain Bolt if I ran a race against a 5 year old. It's Moldova. So many football fans always seem to discount the opposition when assessing a player. 

 

He will not get that time or space playing for us in the PL and our players won't be able to take up the same positions with the same passing lanes open for him to find and he doesn't have to do any off the ball work tonight either. 

 

On 12/11/2021 at 21:16, Canario said:

Perhaps a bit of a flat track bully like us in the Champs. Fine whilst playing against inferior sides when he has time and space to ping it around but lost in a side that needs to battle. 

It's only Denmark lads. 

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On 12/11/2021 at 20:17, Jim Smith said:

He hasn’t. This narrative has built up since he’s been left out to respond to Chelsea fans moaning about it but it’s not true. He wasn’t great but no worse than others who have continued to be picked. 

He gets a little over the top criticism from our fans so far but he gets far more ridiculous fawning over him from Scotland and Chelsea fans.

For example he was decent against Denmark but statistically the 6th best outfield player for them and the fourth best according to fan votes on BBC. 

The problem so far with Gilmour is whilst he's only been able to show flashes of his ability on the ball he's significantly under delivered in other areas compared to our midfielders. Tackling, interceptions, tracking runners, heading (obviously going to be a problem for him of course) have been weaker both from my eyes and from the stats than McLean and PLM. You can look past that if he's delivering on the other stuff but he hasn't as of yet.

Hopefully he does under Smith.

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1 minute ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Glorious commentary from Ally McCoist last night. Gilmour spins and drives 40 yards at the Denmark defence. “They must be some team, Norwich”

Very witty, Ally.

Have you considered the idea that maybe Gilmour doesn't want to be at Norwich and is therefore making no effort because he thinks he's slumming it?

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On 13/11/2021 at 00:36, Petriix said:

I can't believe people are so ignorant about the nuances of football. There's more to playing in midfield than hitting killer passes.

Gilmour undoubtedly has great ability on the ball and enormous talent at reading movement in front of him. However, that's only half of his job.

He also needs to work off the ball, track runs, close spaces. There are big gaps there. He seems to lack physicality and work rate when out of possession. He seems to be treading water rather than putting his all into doing the ugly bits of the game.

I imagine part of it is experience and part of it is desire. It will certainly improve as he matures, but we don't have the luxury of giving him the time to learn through his mistakes.

Because we're already a team of raw talent and potential, we're fragile. When it clicks it's exquisite, but it can fall apart in seconds. We need a solid core to hold it all together. Gilmour is not dependable enough to do that when surrounded by the level of fragility we currently have.

Maybe our new coach will have the skills required to bring this side of his game up to standard. Maybe Farke has already set the wheels in motion behind the scenes. Billy could well do a job for us this season, but he needs to start by doing the basics consistently. 

 

It's the tracking back that gets me, far less than the physicality. When you have the ability of Gilmour then you are usually worth a place in a side if you are a bit lightweight, everyone knows you may get knocked off the ball a bit and won't be great in the air. That's part and parcel of being the kind of player he is.

However you still have to do your defensive duties to the best of your ability. As it stands, because he doesn't track back, angles aren't cut off, players feel no pressure and nobody is forced into winning a contest which in turn takes time and gives the rest of the team time to organise behind the ball.

Absolutely none of that is about size or physicality. A small lightweight player can do all these things, you don't have to be the size of Yaya Toure, you just have to be aware of the defensive aspects of the game and be prepared to do the hard work in those areas.

Incidentally I'm a Scotland fan, however I also loath Chelsea so I suppose maybe it balances out. 

Edited by 1902
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13 minutes ago, 1902 said:

It's the tracking back that gets me, far less than the physicality. When you have the ability of Gilmour then you are usually worth a place in a side if you are a bit lightweight, everyone knows you may get knocked off the ball a bit and won't be great in the air. That's part and parcel of being the kind of player he is.

However you still have to do your defensive duties to the best of your ability. As it stands, because he doesn't track back, angles aren't cut off, players feel no pressure and nobody is forced into winning a contest which in turn takes time and gives the rest of the team time to organise behind the ball.

Absolutely none of that is about size or physicality. A small lightweight player can do all these things, you don't have to be the size of Yaya Toure, you just have to be aware of the defensive aspects of the game and be prepared to do the hard work in those areas.

Incidentally I'm a Scotland fan, however I also loath Chelsea so I suppose maybe it balances out. 

Oh right, so Scotland have W6 D1 L1 (including England, Denmark twice, Austria away) with a passenger in the team. 

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7 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Oh right, so Scotland have W6 D1 L1 (including England, Denmark twice, Austria away) with a passenger in the team. 

Not even slightly. Gilmour is a great player, whose abilities are well suited to Scotland's formation. However for Norwich he has more defensive duties and he hasn't done them. If you had watched our first few games you would know that. 

Given you are a new poster, I take it you are either a Chelsea fan come to criticise or a Scotland fan come to have a go. Either way, your opinion is only worth listening to if you actually watched him play for Norwich.

Edited by 1902
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33 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Not even slightly. Gilmour is a great player, whose abilities are well suited to Scotland's formation. However for Norwich he has more defensive duties and he hasn't done them. If you had watched our first few games you would know that. 

Given you are a new poster, I take it you are either a Chelsea fan come to criticise or a Scotland fan come to have a go. Either way, your opinion is only worth listening to if you actually watched him play for Norwich.

I’m a Scotland fan, but I’ve got no beef with Norwich.

I’d say that Norwich simply have to build a cohesive midfield unit and Gilmour will be a star. Maybe try him at the base of midfield alongside Normann? 

I’d also suggest that you’re not really a Scotland fan. Otherwise you would have watched him going toe to toe with Denmark midfielders twice his size last night. Is he the finished article? No, he’s 20. Also he’s not N’golo Kante (but who is really?). He needs a team around him who defends too. The upturn in Scotland results is largely down to Gilmour. Does he defend for us? Of course, if you’ve ever watched Scotland play you’ll know we have our fair share of defending to do even against the minnows!

Build a solid system and he will do his share and help Norwich in the process.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

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Let's hope with a new manager and possibly a new system he can show us what we want to see.

But if he succeeds we will be setting ourselves up, once again, like Olly Skipp, to having a key member of our team taken out of it as he returns to his parent club.

It is difficult enough to build a Premiership team but when you do it, and rely heavily on players you know you are going to lose, it is even more difficult.

When are the lower Premiership clubs going to realise they are being used.

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14 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

I’m a Scotland fan, but I’ve got no beef with Norwich.

I’d say that Norwich simply have to build a cohesive midfield unit and Gilmour will be a star. Maybe try him at the base of midfield alongside Normann? 

I’d also suggest that you’re not really a Scotland fan. Otherwise you would have watched him going toe to toe with Denmark midfielders twice his size last night. Is he the finished article? No, he’s 20. Also he’s not N’golo Kante (but who is really?). He needs a team around him who defends too. The upturn in Scotland results is largely down to Gilmour. Does he defend for us? Of course, if you’ve ever watched Scotland play you’ll know we have our fair share of defending to do even against the minnows!

Build a solid system and he will do his share and help Norwich in the process.

Good luck for the rest of the season.

Fair enough, I didn't watch the game last night because I was at my mother in law's birthday. i also didn't see the other Denmark match but my comment were about how he had played for Norwich.

I did however watch the Moldova game, the Austria game and the England game and I do agree he has been excellent for Scotland but the national team don't play a 4-3-3 as we did early season. Maybe that was a mistake on Farke's part and I'm not writing him off, as I said, he's a fantastic player when playing well with bags of potential.

But just as I will trust you on how he performed last night, trust those on this board who watch Norwich play. He didn't do his defensive duties for Norwich, he wasn't tracking back and his positioning was dire. If you read my comment again, I wasn't criticising his physicality, I was criticising his awareness in our system early season.

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As others have identified, Gilmour's strengths aren't suited to a club in our position or with the central midfield blend that we have - at least, based on the evidence we've seen under Farke. 

He looks to me like a player who might make a good team (relative to the league) better but won't elevate a poor one. Look at Normann's impact in comparison.

It's possible that Smith will get a tune out of Billy but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by kirku

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9 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Fair enough, I didn't watch the game last night because I was at my mother in law's birthday. i also didn't see the other Denmark match but my comment were about how he had played for Norwich.

I did however watch the Moldova game, the Austria game and the England game and I do agree he has been excellent for Scotland but the national team don't play a 4-3-3 as we did early season. Maybe that was a mistake on Farke's part and I'm not writing him off, as I said, he's a fantastic player when playing well with bags of potential.

But just as I will trust you on how he performed last night, trust those on this board who watch Norwich play. He didn't do his defensive duties for Norwich, he wasn't tracking back and his positioning was dire. If you read my comment again, I wasn't criticising his physicality, I was criticising his awareness in our system early season.

We also bought in to the hype after the England game.

Not saying he's a bad player as clearly he's talented but after that England game you'd think he was Pele or Maradona with the way that everyone was going on about him.

I think we'll see him under Smith though early and if he's not what we need (coz that's what it's about) then send him back and get someone else in. 

No one was talking about Conor Gallagher in the same way and he is flying at Palace and looks a much better player.

Just shows that there are no guarantees in any loan or signing; some work, some don't.

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1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

Very witty, Ally.

Have you considered the idea that maybe Gilmour doesn't want to be at Norwich and is therefore making no effort because he thinks he's slumming it?

Seems unlikely if you remember the rumours that as a Rangers fan he was going there for the season and we were missing out on him.  It seems unlikely we were his only option, so he must have been in favour of it.

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Billy Gilmour is a lot of things, but Premier League 'engine room' material he is not. With players like Kante or McTominay alongside him to shift the burden he looks great as a playmaker. Having him be a vital cog in the graft side of midfield, he looks poor as anyone has.

Therein lies the task for Smith.

 

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4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

What position has he been playing in for Scotland?

One of two deep lying players in a midfield 3, with 3 centre backs behind him. Gives him some licence to roam forward at times and he's been very unlucky not to score 1 or 2 for us, he strikes the ball very well from the edge of the box.

More than happy to accept that Gilmour didn't start well for Norwich - albeit your fixture list at the start of the season was horrendous and I suspect a bit of the Gilmour criticism is reaction to the over the top Chelsea (and Scotland) hype.

Ultimately though, Gilmour is a fantastically talented footballer and if Norwich can't adopt a system that can accommodate him then there has to be some question marks over the system. The deficiencies in his tackling and tracking are overblown in my view based on his Scotland performances (we've kept 6 clean sheets in 8 games he's started including Austria and England away and Denmark at home), his ball retention is absolutely superb and he can carry the ball forward too. I suspect as alluded to above however it may be that Gilmour is a guy that can lift a team with good players around him rather than dragging a team out of a relegation battle, but how many players could realistically do that?

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