It's Lampard!

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

56 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Just a gentle reminder for anyone who felt Farke needed to go. A lot of us felt Farke had it in him to turn things around, but the critics were very vocal that we had to try 'something'. This is something. Ultimately, I'm quite positive that he's the best currently available to the club, so that will have to do. 

The board made the call you wanted, so get behind him and fingers crossed. 
 

 

It's not like the fans wanted him out. There was a small number of boos on one or two occasions I can remember - but no protests, no Farke Out banners at the grounds. Only moaning on here. The board were hardly under pressure from the fans. 

Board took this decision of their own free will, they werent pressured at all really.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Martin Peters was in a team that won the world cup. I think that says it all.

Plenty of World Cup winners are less well known than Frank Lampard.

Fabio Grosso for example, 2006, only famous domestically in Italy? 

Premier League is the biggest league in the world, with a global reach which didn't exist in the era that Martin Peters played.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I thought we'd already ascertained that I'm more of an Archbishop of Canterbury man myself. 

Pah, absolute garbage global reach. 8.4 million Instagram followers to 44.6k. Pathetic.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,508]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

It's not like the fans wanted him out. There was a small number of boos on one or two occasions I can remember - but no protests, no Farke Out banners at the grounds. Only moaning on here. The board were hardly under pressure from the fans. 

Board took this decision of their own free will, they werent pressured at all really.

Then I genuinely don't get what has happened, because Delia really did look like it was a funeral at the Brentford game and Webber was unreadable. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Plenty of World Cup winners are less well known than Frank Lampard.

Fabio Grosso for example, 2006, only famous domestically in Italy? 

Premier League is the biggest league in the world, with a global reach which didn't exist in the era that Martin Peters played.

I think we're talking England here. I think we're talking - or we should be talking - about stature within the game. Just because communications are better nowadays doesn't make achievements lesser just because they were in the past.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

I think we're talking England here. I think we're talking - or we should be talking - about stature within the game. Just because communications are better nowadays doesn't make achievements lesser just because they were in the past.

No, I was talking global from the start, I made that very clear by using the world "global".

[sonyc 5,489]

30 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Second choice candidate. Webber has totally fkd this up.

I reckon Knutsen was probably the first choice (and mine) but somehow it couldn't be brought over the line.

Maybe we will never know either.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

33 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I mean top notch? Not yet. But much like players we can’t afford top notch, we need to bring in potential. I think he has the potential.

The one good thing is that this morning I pledged £20 to nutty for the CSF if it was Lampard or Smith...🤩

[lake district canary 4,531]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

4 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

It's not like the fans wanted him out. There was a small number of boos on one or two occasions I can remember - but no protests, no Farke Out banners at the grounds. Only moaning on here. The board were hardly under pressure from the fans. 

Board took this decision of their own free will, they werent pressured at all really.

Then I genuinely don't get what has happened, because Delia really did look like it was a funeral at the Brentford game and Webber was unreadable. 

Webber took the decision on his own and presented it to the board - and as we know, our owners don't interfere with footballing decisions. However, they could have vetoed something as big as that if they wanted to, but then Webber could have thrown a strop and walked out if they had done. No wonder Delia looked so fed up - it is plain she loved Farke, as to be fair do a lot of us, but probably realised she couldn't really stop Webber from doing his job. 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

11 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

The only guys who have that pedigree are the likes of Big Sam, no matter where you're placed it's the opposition you're up against in any given league, and the experience of that matters.

Favre, Knutsen etc.  all potentials, but zero pedigree at surviving at this level, never even managed in this country let alone league.

Oh, of course, Favre is so inferior to brand Lampard because he's only taken several smaller teams (not Chelsea) into the Champions League, and he's only taken teams like Nice and BMG from relegation spots to European qualification, unlike brand Lampard who has taken Derby from sixth to sixth in the Championship and taken Chelsea from third to fourth and ninth before he was sacked. 

[Google Bot 3,256]

10 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Then I genuinely don't get what has happened, because Delia really did look like it was a funeral at the Brentford game and Webber was unreadable. 

Could've been two factors in this which isn't immediately obvious to us as fans, but perhaps more from a business sense?

1. Could be related to our assets de-valuing 'if' there was some developing personal issues with Tzolis/Cantwell/Gilmour. or perhaps on a similar level the board feeling that we'd paid decent money for incoming players and they weren't being used.  Gilmour's wages for example, if he went back who knows what 'lost'  cost of having him here was.

2. They may have simply asked themselves if they're willing to go through with this for the full third cycle.  i.e. stick with him, get promoted again - and same end result.  As arguably that may have been the very best situation were they to put full confidence in him.  This international break was an ideal crossroads moment on that decision to get someone in early for hope this season, but more definite for next.

Obviously, not a clue, but when you factor in point 2 and 'if' Cantwell wasn't signing a contract extension (Who's worth dwarfs the cost of Farke being dismissed), I can see on a business sense how they would go this way even if their heart wasn't in the decision... If that makes sense.

What I don't think it was, was based on philosophies on how we play as such.  This notion that farkeball doesn't, or can't work - I don't buy so much.  Just feels that the cycle had run it's course to me, first time round is easier to hold belief, but second time... Much tougher as you see the cracks earlier in their development.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Google Bot

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

1 hour ago, NR32-Yellow said:

I'll cheer on Frank Lampard just as much as i have cheered on any other Norwich manager but I'll be very underwhelmed if this is true.

He was a fantastic footballer but his managerial record is nothing but average in my opinion.

He took over at Derby who finsihed 6th the season before.
He then spent over £12M on transfers, on players like Martyn Waghorn, Jack Marriott and Florian Jozefzoon.
All of them left the club on a free transfer this summer, a complete waste of money.
He also got Mason Mount, Fikayo Timori and Harry Wilson on loan. Three top players irrespective of age at the time.
Where did he guide them to in the league......6th position.
No improvement on the previous management despite having better tools to work with. 

He then got the Chelsea position.
Chelsea had a transfer ban so they couldn't sign any players (Luckily no money wasted) and managed to qualify for the Champions in his first season, fair play Lampard.
He then spent over £200M on Chilwell, Havertz, Ziyech and Werner. You could argue that's even more money he has wasted as in my opinion only 3 of them have regularly played in the starting line up (Chilwell, Werner and Havertz). From them 3 Werner has been nothing short of a let down.
He then got the sack that after 19 games whilst they were in 9th place.
Tuchel then took over the same set of players and won the Champions League!

Lampard hasn't actually improved a clubs league standing yet in his managerial career.

If he didn't have such a fantastic playing career i don't believe he would get a Premier League opportunity based off of his manergerial record.

I will be singing his name as loud as the next man but i cant help but feel underwhelmed.
I would of preferred to of kept Farke.

Please prove me wrong Frank.


 

 

Cant disagree with any of this. Trading purely off his playing reputation. Board after board continue to make this *mistake* in my opinion.

Think of the best Premier League managers there have been. Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho? All had low profile playing careers.

Its the same mistake as signing Jordi Cryuff, Paul Dalglish etc and hoping big name = big talent.

 

Id have hoped our board were astute enough to see through this but apparently not. That Frank was a great player means diddly.

He got the Derby job off the back of that and would never in a million years have got anywhere near the Chelsea job based on his performance as Derby manager. He only got a job at Chelsea because of his history at the club (see Bryan Gunn) and because Chelsea were under odd circumstances.

This is a really underwhelming appointment. If we go down, would we have the confidence in Lampard of bouncing straight back up that Farke would have given us? 

 

If he's the boss we'll support him, but it's really disappointing, a mistake and doomed to failure imo.

[Monty13 2,229]

37 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

This was my thought. How can Lampard be better than what we had, not just on the field, but throughout the club??

Because he may win more than 10% of games?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,508]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Could've been two factors in this which isn't immediately obvious to us as fans, but perhaps more from a business sense?

1. Could be related to our assets de-valuing 'if' there was some developing personal issues with Tzolis/Cantwell/Gilmour. or perhaps on a similar level the board feeling that we'd paid decent money for incoming players and they weren't being used.  Gilmour's wages for example, if he went back who knows what 'lost'  cost of having him here was.

2. They may have simply asked themselves if they're willing to go through with this for the full third cycle.  i.e. stick with him, get promoted again - and same end result.  As arguably that may have been the very best situation were they to put full confidence in him.  This international break was an ideal crossroads moment on that decision to get someone in early for hope this season, but more definite for next.

Obviously, not a clue, but when you factor in point 2 and 'if' Cantwell wasn't signing a contract extension (Who's worth dwarfs the cost of Farke being dismissed), I can see on a business sense how they would go this way even if their heart wasn't in the decision... If that makes sense.

What I don't think it was, was based on philosophies on how we play as such.  This notion that farkeball doesn't, or can't work - I don't buy so much.  Just feels that the cycle had run it's course to me, first time round is easier to hold belief, but second time... Much tougher as you see the cracks earlier in their development.

I've run out of likes, but I must say you come up with some very impressive, thoughtful,  and compelling theories. 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Because he may win more than 10% of games?

Well, when we did have a direct comparison of Farke vs Lampard in 2018/19, I seem to remember that Farke was much the superior manager despite not having the money Lampard had, nor the quick access to fantastic young loanees.

So I wouldn't be so sure that Lampard can reach that 10%.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

5 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Cant disagree with any of this. Trading purely off his playing reputation. Board after board continue to make this *mistake* in my opinion.

Think of the best Premier League managers there have been. Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho? All had low profile playing careers.

Its the same mistake as signing Jordi Cryuff, Paul Dalglish etc and hoping big name = big talent.

 

Id have hoped our board were astute enough to see through this but apparently not. That Frank was a great player means diddly.

He got the Derby job off the back of that and would never in a million years have got anywhere near the Chelsea job based on his performance as Derby manager. He only got a job at Chelsea because of his history at the club (see Bryan Gunn) and because Chelsea were under odd circumstances.

This is a really underwhelming appointment. If we go down, would we have the confidence in Lampard of bouncing straight back up that Farke would have given us? 

 

If he's the boss we'll support him, but it's really disappointing, a mistake and doomed to failure imo.

Did Jordi Cruyff play for us and I missed it ?

[kenfoggo 247]

Frank Lampard? Does he have a history of improving a side with an extremely limited budget?  Did he get Derby promotion from the Championship? He may be a big name in as a player but still has a lot to prove as a Head Coach. I do hope he does well if appointed.

[Monty13 2,229]

3 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Well, when we did have a direct comparison of Farke vs Lampard in 2018/19, I seem to remember that Farke was much the superior manager despite not having the money Lampard had, nor the quick access to fantastic young loanees.

So I wouldn't be so sure that Lampard can reach that 10%.

I said may, we’ll see. Lakey asked how could he be better. Ignoring everything else it’s pretty much that simple. Farke never did and never looked like winning enough games at this level.

[Duncan's Knee 0]

Not sure what a lot of people were hoping for. I'm not sure the likes of Guardiola, Klopp, Rodgers and Moyes are going to abandon their clubs because Norwich have a vacancy! We are treading quicksand and even no other manager in the bottom half of the Prem is going to risk jumping ship. That leaves unproven Championship managers and exotic named European managers.

Lampard did well enough at Chelsea (hardly a side to stick with managers long), and got canned for slipping to 9th. And to roll your eyes at what he achieved at Derby is to compare their players with ours. He got the best out of them and nearly took them back to the Prem in how long?? Where are Derby now without him?

If it is Frank, then I'm pretty excited to see how we push on from here. I'm not sure we can survive this season, hopeful that we do, but I'm not going to think it's the end of the world if we slip out of the top-flight again. Just as long as we go screaming and shouting!

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

6 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Could've been two factors in this which isn't immediately obvious to us as fans, but perhaps more from a business sense?

1. Could be related to our assets de-valuing 'if' there was some developing personal issues with Tzolis/Cantwell/Gilmour. or perhaps on a similar level the board feeling that we'd paid decent money for incoming players and they weren't being used.  Gilmour's wages for example, if he went back who knows what 'lost'  cost of having him here was.

2. They may have simply asked themselves if they're willing to go through with this for the full third cycle.  i.e. stick with him, get promoted again - and same end result.  As arguably that may have been the very best situation were they to put full confidence in him.  This international break was an ideal crossroads moment on that decision to get someone in early for hope this season, but more definite for next.

Obviously, not a clue, but when you factor in point 2 and 'if' Cantwell wasn't signing a contract extension (Who's worth dwarfs the cost of Farke being dismissed), I can see on a business sense how they would go this way even if their heart wasn't in the decision... If that makes sense.

What I don't think it was, was based on philosophies on how we play as such.  This notion that farkeball doesn't, or can't work - I don't buy so much.  Just feels that the cycle had run it's course to me, first time round is easier to hold belief, but second time... Much tougher as you see the cracks earlier in their development.

I think it much more simple than this. The blame for our predicament at the bottom of the table was spread around owners - for not having enough money, Webber - for poor quality recruitment and selling Buendia, and Farke - for poor on-pitch performance. By sacking Farke, Webber puts all the blame on his coach who then gets all the attention and Webber gets none. It was a political stab in the back from a ruthless operator, who apparently has a new deal that is about to be announced at the AGM.

[kdncfc 27]

Really can't understand the reaction of some on here, have some of you ever considered Lampard may have learnt from his time at Derby and Chelsea and be a better manager because of his experiences?

I loved Farke as much as anyone but sadly his record at PL level was dreadful, he'd have been sacked long ago at most if not all PL clubs.

Good luck Frank - hope it works out for you.

[Nuff Said 5,088]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Paddy trying to calm the storm..

But he didn’t say “wide of the mark”. Does that mean it’s true but he can’t say so?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,508]

Just now, Rock The Boat said:

I think it much more simple than this. The blame for our predicament at the bottom of the table was spread around owners - for not having enough money, Webber - for poor quality recruitment and selling Buendia, and Farke - for poor on-pitch performance. By sacking Farke, Webber puts all the blame on his coach who then gets all the attention and Webber gets none. It was a political stab in the back from a ruthless operator, who apparently has a new deal that is about to be announced at the AGM.

The hole in this theory is that Webber/Farke era has been an overall success and I would say Webber could easily move on up the food chain at this point. That's why I'm not convinced it's as cynical as this. 

[Google Bot 3,256]

3 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Oh, of course, Favre is so inferior to brand Lampard because he's only taken several smaller teams (not Chelsea) into the Champions League

He has zero experience in this country, or league.

Despite being favourites to win, was hammered by spurs 3-0 in champions league (Who were without Kane & Dele Alli if you remember), and then lost 1-0 at home in the following fixture, he's not even managed to produce a goal against prem league opposition in competition.  Had assets like Jadon Sancho and Pulisic at his disposal too. 

But ultimately, he's not suited for this task and would have no interest in it.  Frank on the other hand has shown a belief and willingness in our club.  You'll still hate though.

[shefcanary 2,383]

2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

But he didn’t say “wide of the mark”. Does that mean it’s true but he can’t say so?

The Pinkun Live video podcast they did at 2pm was based on the fact that Lampard is going to be appointed (albeit not confirmed).  Given they talked for over an hour assuming it is going to happen, one has to consider it is happening. 

Edited November 11, 2021 by shefcanary

[Google Bot 3,256]

2 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Given they talked for over an hour assuming it is going to happen, one has to consider it is happening. 

They know but they have to work with the club or their lifesource is cut.  It's very much feet under the table, our media don't truly challenge the club, they just drift around in a little sail boat and wait for packages to arrive.

Can't say I blame them, it's a nice little gig really.  Why upset the apple cart.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Google Bot

[FCC 76]

I hope he can convince the players he is any good, because he hasn’t the fans. 
 

[Highland Canary 76]

The key attribute of the new coach needed to be a track record of championship promotion. I would have stayed with Farke - he certainly won’t be out of work for long. Sadly, Lampard singularly fails to fit this bill. A backwards step.

[SteveN8458 61]

Is this REALLY the succession plan that Webber told us all about.

or was that Bo11ox too.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

6 minutes ago, Duncan's Knee said:

Not sure what a lot of people were hoping for. I'm not sure the likes of Guardiola, Klopp, Rodgers and Moyes are going to abandon their clubs because Norwich have a vacancy! We are treading quicksand and even no other manager in the bottom half of the Prem is going to risk jumping ship. That leaves unproven Championship managers and exotic named European managers.

 

I think the point is that many of us would only have sacked Farke if a genuinely better manager was available. We remained optimistic that the board, in having decided to push that button 10 games after giving Farke a 4 year contract and so quickly that they couldnt even let him leave the opposition's stadium, were of like mind and therefore had lined up a superior candidate.

To then find out they've done all this for Frank Lampard is a massive let down. This is a backwards step for me. Absolutely no reason to think that Lampard can keep the club in the division, get more out of the players than Farke, or indeed get us back up should we go down.

Cant really understand it myself.