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Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

What do you mean? Lampard turning us down?

Yes.

It's come from a mate who is a good friend of Jones who asked him about the press reports that Lampard is to become our manager. This friend doesn't do wind ups and asked him outright about it and Jones's reply (I have seen the messages) was a straight 'no'.🤷‍♂️

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Yes.

It's come from a mate who is a good friend of Jones who asked him about the press reports that Lampard is to become our manager. This friend doesn't do wind ups and asked him outright about it and Jones's reply (I have seen the messages) was a straight 'no'.🤷‍♂️

That would be a bit embarrassing after all the media coverage.

Imagine getting turned down by somebody that only about one third of Pink'un posters want as manager.

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1 hour ago, fredherring said:

Knutsen has never played football at anywhere near the level lampard did. 

He has only managed in the ludicrous little norwegian leagues, which are more league one level. 

He is a complete unknown. 

But because you saw a video and he beat Jose, he's apparently wonderful. 

Oh and he's euro, fits the model, blah. 

He's an incredible gamble. Massive. Biggest gamble of the three, anyone with a brain can see that. 

Your criticisms of Knutsen really remind me of Wenger joining Arsenal from Japan. I'd argue that it doesn't matter where the next manager is coming from. It's more about the mentality that he (or she) instills in the squad which, from what I've read, Knutsen places a great emphasis on. 

1 hour ago, fredherring said:

Smith was just sacked for being rubbish. For the second season in the prem. And you lot were attacking him for how he used buendia! 

Smith got Villa promoted from the Championship and kept them up two seasons in a row (thanks to a dodgy VAR call). Those two achievements are the two of the main objectives on the job description!

1 hour ago, fredherring said:

Then we have lampard. Who has played at top level all his career. 

Derby top four. Chelsea top four in an embargo. Fa Cup, champions league. 

And don't come the rubbish about under achieving at Derby. Mount was 18!

Plus the youngsters will look up to him and he will have significant pull in the January window. 

I'd be fine with Lampard but I don't see how his playing career has anything to do with the prospect of him managing us. It's been clear over the years that top players aren't automatically great coaches and poor players will automatically become poor coaches. Look at the likes of Keane, Shearer, Ince, Neville, Di Canio etc. Meanwhile Mourinho, Klopp, Fergie, Wenger, Tuchel all played at fairly low levels. Of course there are a few examples that you could name (Pep, Poch, Koeman) but the point is that their playing career is irrelevant and shouldn't even come into the debate.

Again, I'd be fine with Lampard but I would view it more as an appointment for next season in the Championship, as I don't think he plays the style of football / mentality that we need to survive. Both Chelsea and Derby were weak defensively (DC conceded 54 goals in his last season with them... we conceded 36 last year) and I think we'll see similar performances / results to the beginning of Farke's first PL season... nice attacking football but weak defensively. 

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2 hours ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Yes.

It's come from a mate who is a good friend of Jones who asked him about the press reports that Lampard is to become our manager. This friend doesn't do wind ups and asked him outright about it and Jones's reply (I have seen the messages) was a straight 'no'.🤷‍♂️

 

 

Having led with a main story that implied Lampard was coming, the Pinkun has now gone with a new story that implies Smith and KK are not yet out of the running. Could be they are aware of something along the lines you're suggesting.

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3 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

Your criticisms of Knutsen really remind me of Wenger joining Arsenal from Japan. I'd argue that it doesn't matter where the next manager is coming from. It's more about the mentality that he (or she) instills in the squad which, from what I've read, Knutsen places a great emphasis on. 

Smith got Villa promoted from the Championship and kept them up two seasons in a row (thanks to a dodgy VAR call). Those two achievements are the two of the main objectives on the job description!

I'd be fine with Lampard but I don't see how his playing career has anything to do with the prospect of him managing us. It's been clear over the years that top players aren't automatically great coaches and poor players will automatically become poor coaches. Look at the likes of Keane, Shearer, Ince, Neville, Di Canio etc. Meanwhile Mourinho, Klopp, Fergie, Wenger, Tuchel all played at fairly low levels. Of course there are a few examples that you could name (Pep, Poch, Koeman) but the point is that their playing career is irrelevant and shouldn't even come into the debate.

Again, I'd be fine with Lampard but I would view it more as an appointment for next season in the Championship, as I don't think he plays the style of football / mentality that we need to survive. Both Chelsea and Derby were weak defensively (DC conceded 54 goals in his last season with them... we conceded 36 last year) and I think we'll see similar performances / results to the beginning of Farke's first PL season... nice attacking football but weak defensively. 

Well done for taking the time to point all of this out, I couldn’t be bothered to be honest Y & G - it’s been said many times by a fair few posters that there were massive red flags over his ability to organise a defence, and let’s face it, that was one of the biggest criticisms of Daniel, and is something that desperately needs addressing if we’re to have any chance of staying up. Zero evidence Frank Lampard would have rectified that based on his managerial career so far. Still, it sounds like we won’t be having to worry about that despite the media rumours it’s done and dusted!

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5 hours ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Yes.

It's come from a mate who is a good friend of Jones who asked him about the press reports that Lampard is to become our manager. This friend doesn't do wind ups and asked him outright about it and Jones's reply (I have seen the messages) was a straight 'no'.🤷‍♂️

 

 

Cheers for that Crabby, if this had come from a ‘new account’ I’d have taken that info with a pinch of salt but as it’s you then that’s good enough for me 👍

Smith in pole position now? And Knutsen, the most popular choice, cannot be ruled out yet thankfully, simply because he’s not shot it down yet and it sounds like an interview is already arranged, or perhaps has already even taken place?

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7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That would be a bit embarrassing after all the media coverage.

Imagine getting turned down by somebody that only about one third of Pink'un posters want as manager.

And you think pink-un posters hold some sway? I don’t think it matters one iota what supporters think unless they sit on the board. It’s what Webber recommends to them that counts!

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8 hours ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Yes.

It's come from a mate who is a good friend of Jones who asked him about the press reports that Lampard is to become our manager. This friend doesn't do wind ups and asked him outright about it and Jones's reply (I have seen the messages) was a straight 'no'.🤷‍♂️

 

 

Was the question along the lines of  “is it true Lampard has the Norwich job in the bag” or “is Lampard keen to go to Norwich?” though as obviously how the question is worded can make a difference. Not doubting your source.

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9 hours ago, fredherring said:

This is the most pig ignorant nonsense I've read in weeks in this hell hole. 

Knutsen has never played football at anywhere near the level lampard did. 

He has only managed in the ludicrous little norwegian leagues, which are more league one level. 

He is a complete unknown. 

But because you saw a video and he beat Jose, he's apparently wonderful. 

Oh and he's euro, fits the model, blah. 

He's an incredible gamble. Massive. Biggest gamble of the three, anyone with a brain can see that. 

 

As a norwegian I had to comment on this 🙂 As you yourself mention condescending attitude, you might try and avoid that yourself 🙂

 

I can tell a little story. About my Rosenborgs legendary coach Nils Arne Eggen. Knutsen's inspiration as a coach. Eggen managed Rosenborg from 88 to 2002 (excepting 98). The coach from the  ludicrous little norwegian leagues. He started managing Rosenborg in 1988, where he remained until 2002, except for a sabbatical in 1998. This is the team's golden age, resulting in 11 consecutive league titles and the participation in eight consecutive seasons in Champions League. Eggen returned a manager for the single 2010 season, again winning the league. That coach took the team to dominating Norway and going all the way to the Quarter Finals of the Champions League with his progressive 4-3-3 style and coaching style. In other matches in CL they beat Dortmund away 3-0, Real Madrid 2-0 held the unbeatable Arsenal to a draw, drew against Bayern, beat Blackburn, beat the great old AC Milan team at San Siro 2-1, beat Porto, PSG, Galatasaray, Benfica etc etc...

 

This man from the ludicrous little norwegian leagues is for me the greatest coach in the world. Ever. As this is my club, I watched all this unfold. This small club that managed to become one of the best clubs in the world due to Eggen and his fantastic attacking football.

 

Now, as Knutsen with the same style and Eggen as his inspiration, starts doing something similar with a much smaller club than Rosenborg even, in this modern age where the bigger Leagues have a lot more money and UEFA has made qualifying even harder for smaller nations,  such feats are even harder, even; we want him. We see what he can do. We remember Eggen and this is the first time we se someone that manages to coach that kind of football.

 

For me, a coach does not need to have experience in the bigger leagues to be a great coach. Now, I am not saying it is a guaranteed success, for any club, to hire Knutsen. The potential, though, is greater than with most coaches. The biggest negative must be the cultural and language differences. Knutsen needs time to implement his style, which demands a lot of drilling to be perfected.

If Norwich had played Knutsens Bodø/Glimt at it's best I think you would loose. Knutsen did not only beat Rome, he molested them. Would a League one team manage that?

 

So, when does a great coach from a smaller nation qualify? Is it better to wait and see that coach go somewhere else, or do you gamble? Does it become a "might have been scenario" or an avoided bullet? No risk no sucess. I hope he comes to my club so we can again play great football. But I do not know what will happen.

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4 minutes ago, taffelstick said:

 

As a norwegian I had to comment on this 🙂 As you yourself mention condescending attitude, you might try and avoid that yourself 🙂

 

I can tell a little story. About my Rosenborgs legendary coach Nils Arne Eggen. Knutsen's inspiration as a coach. Eggen managed Rosenborg from 88 to 2002 (excepting 98). The coach from the  ludicrous little norwegian leagues. He started managing Rosenborg in 1988, where he remained until 2002, except for a sabbatical in 1998. This is the team's golden age, resulting in 11 consecutive league titles and the participation in eight consecutive seasons in Champions League. Eggen returned a manager for the single 2010 season, again winning the league. That coach took the team to dominating Norway and going all the way to the Quarter Finals of the Champions League with his progressive 4-3-3 style and coaching style. In other matches in CL they beat Dortmund away 3-0, Real Madrid 2-0 held the unbeatable Arsenal to a draw, drew against Bayern, beat Blackburn, beat the great old AC Milan team at San Siro 2-1, beat Porto, PSG, Galatasaray, Benfica etc etc...

 

This man from the ludicrous little norwegian leagues is for me the greatest coach in the world. Ever. As this is my club, I watched all this unfold. This small club that managed to become one of the best clubs in the world due to Eggen and his fantastic attacking football.

 

Now, as Knutsen with the same style and Eggen as his inspiration, starts doing something similar with a much smaller club than Rosenborg even, in this modern age where the bigger Leagues have a lot more money and UEFA has made qualifying even harder for smaller nations,  such feats are even harder, even; we want him. We see what he can do. We remember Eggen and this is the first time we se someone that manages to coach that kind of football.

 

For me, a coach does not need to have experience in the bigger leagues to be a great coach. Now, I am not saying it is a guaranteed success, for any club, to hire Knutsen. The potential, though, is greater than with most coaches. The biggest negative must be the cultural and language differences. Knutsen needs time to implement his style, which demands a lot of drilling to be perfected.

If Norwich had played Knutsens Bodø/Glimt at it's best I think you would loose. Knutsen did not only beat Rome, he molested them. Would a League one team manage that?

 

So, when does a great coach from a smaller nation qualify? Is it better to wait and see that coach go somewhere else, or do you gamble? Does it become a "might have been scenario" or an avoided bullet? No risk no sucess. I hope he comes to my club so we can again play great football. But I do not know what will happen.

I think most of us were/are quite excited at the prospect of Knutsen. He certainly looks to have something and be a good fit for Norwich. It’s a shame the timing appears a few weeks out otherwise I’m sure he would be our man. Maybe he still will be but it feels less likely now as I don’t think we can wait for him if he won’t leave til the end of the Norwegian season. 

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I agree there. The timing would be better starting pre-season. I think you would be able to buy him free though. for maybe 3-5 millions or something.

 

Edit: Also, if main purpose of new manager is to stay up this season, you would be better off with a coach who have turned things around before and have experience with relegation fights. Dean Smith may be better at that than Lampard, but Lampard might bring more energy.

 

Long-term I have no doubt about.

Edited by taffelstick

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9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You could have made a great point Canarydan23 if you'd pointed out that recently sacked Dean Smith's Aston Villa beat Frank Lampards Derby County three times that season... 3-0, 4-0, then in the play-off final. 

By rubbishing the achievements of Smith that season you undermine any argument really and miss that opportunity, he did a great job to take them from 14th to promotion.

 

I'm not undermining that at all, he did do a great job getting Aston Villa promoted from 14th position, though they were a team hotly favoured to finish top two I hasten to add.

The only point I'm making is that it was far from as good as job as Farke did despite Smith having a squad that, on paper at least, was significantly more valuable. To me, that implies something about the pair's standing as a coach.

Yes, we all know what happened the following season, we were comfortably relegated and Aston Villa survived (thought only courtesy of a cheaty VAR decision). However, as you've suggested, Farke was armed with little more than a spud gun to stay up, Dean Smith was furnished with a 9-figure arsenal that would have the American armed forces invading you for possession of WMDs, so it's arguable you can read too much into their respective abilities; it would be like you claiming to be a better Tennis player than me after winning a match when I had my shoelaces tied together.

And now this season sees them reunited in the league again and both are undeniably failing. Both lost their talisman but they're only 5 points apart and on current form, Norwich are actually outperforming them.

Given that, I would find it remarkable that we would sack Farke and bring in a manager who, by several tangible measures, is a superior coach to his replacement. It wouldn't irk me as much as Lampard, who Farke is demonstrably superior to but also a ****, Smith seems a good man who I could rally behind, but it would be a bizarre appointment and have me question Webber's suitability as a decision maker.

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11 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Cor, with a side coached by Lampard and a very strong Villa side with Grealish it in the league, the champions of it that year must have been something else. Can't we just appoint the coach of that team, who absolutely dicked all over both of those sides that year, finishing 18 and 20 points ahead of both despite having a considerably lower budget? Sounds like he'd be a much better coach than Lampard and Smith...

If we could've hit the reset button with Farke and he was fresh faced taking this position then yeah I'd 100% be behind that.

But we can't, and he's not fresh faced.  He's worn the path on the second cycle and failed to deliver.  We need someone to come in and provide a lift and belief and experience of success in this league.

Whoever the right man is, I don't know, this whole season could flip based on the results of the next two matches - the difference between 0 and 6 points at this point in time is colossal. 

But to write Lampard off as a failure is just daft, he's had to hit the floor running unlike any other manager gets appointed in lower league football and fester for years, Derby were not predicted to make playoffs let's not forget.

And one other point, if we're basing "Who's better" on championship final league positions how has Bielsa had more success than us? How did Wilder have more success? How are Brentford having such a better start?   

Championship and Prem League is a whole different ball game as we've been painfully reminded time and time again.  Farke and/or his team are just not capable of consistent performances at this level to deliver anywhere near acceptable points.

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11 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Derby were not predicted to make playoffs let's not forget.

They were anywhere between 5th and 8th in the pre season odds standings, so very much were expected to be in the playoff hunt.

Unlike Norwich and Sheffield United.

It's quite possible Farke would have failed this season and Brentford was just a single swallow, but it took Farke a whole Championship season plus a few games into the next one to get to grips with that competition. It's possible he needed the same for the Premier League, and rather than just being a swallow, the Brentford result was the equivalent of Ipswich in October 2018. With that in mind, getting rid of him only makes sense if someone who looks an obvious step up was available. Lampard is obviously a step down and Smith has been worse over the last 5 matches than even Farke was, and was much worse in 18/19.

It's not the approach of a man who has all his ducks in a row, as has defined the majority of Webber's tenure; it's a scattergun approach of a man scrabbling around in the dark stabbing at things hoping they stick.

I hope it's not the case and the media reports are wrong and Webber does have another Farke-like ace up his sleeve.

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1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

They were anywhere between 5th and 8th in the pre season odds standings, so very much were expected to be in the playoff hunt.

Most predicted them to be outside in the 7th position, yet people certain people talking like they were nailed on favourites as it fits their narrative to dismiss his achievements in that first season.  The very fact that he came so close to taking a team to prem league in his first season with youngsters is something we should embrace.

It was only a strong Villa that stopped them. We couldn't get the better of them, took 4 pts from us, and based on his record as a player and manager who gets favourable results at Carrow Road.

9 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's quite possible Farke would have failed this season and Brentford was just a single swallow, but it took Farke a whole Championship season plus a few games into the next one to get to grips with that competition. It's possible he needed the same for the Premier League

Why place so much belief that Farke could turn it around when he's only displayed a regression from a previously poor season at this level?  There's no room for such concession for Lampard who BEAT a Farke team in his first season as a manager? 

It's just blind bias.  You're against the name more than you are the man and ability underneath.

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11 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Most predicted them to be outside in the 7th position, yet people certain people talking like they were nailed on favourites as it fits their narrative to dismiss his achievements in that first season.  The very fact that he came so close to taking a team to prem league in his first season with youngsters is something we should embrace.

It was only a strong Villa that stopped them. We couldn't get the better of them, took 4 pts from us, and based on his record as a player and manager who gets favourable results at Carrow Road.

Why place so much belief that Farke could turn it around when he's only displayed a regression from a previously poor season at this level?  There's no room for such concession for Lampard who BEAT a Farke team in his first season as a manager? 

It's just blind bias.  You're against the name more than you are the man and ability underneath.

I must say that you talk more sense than most, with a sense of humour thrown in. Well done 👍

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12 hours ago, fredherring said:

This is the most pig ignorant nonsense I've read in weeks in this hell hole. 

Knutsen has never played football at anywhere near the level lampard did. 

He has only managed in the ludicrous little norwegian leagues, which are more league one level. 

He is a complete unknown. 

But because you saw a video and he beat Jose, he's apparently wonderful. 

Oh and he's euro, fits the model, blah. 

He's an incredible gamble. Massive. Biggest gamble of the three, anyone with a brain can see that. 

 

Smith was just sacked for being rubbish. For the second season in the prem. And you lot were attacking him for how he used buendia! 

 

Then we have lampard. Who has played at top level all his career. 

Derby top four. Chelsea top four in an embargo. Fa Cup, champions league. 

And don't come the rubbish about under achieving at Derby. Mount was 18!

Plus the youngsters will look up to him and he will have significant pull in the January window. 

 

So your condescending attitude, basically saying anyone wanting lampard just wants celebrity, is utterly ridiculous. 

Dont you feel even slightly ridiculous peddling such sh*te? 

The irony is, as has basically been noted by others, you’ve gone on to type the very definition of condescending in the Oxford English Dictionary. 

For the record, if Frank gets the job then I will welcome him with open arms. Always liked him as a player in fact. And whoever stands on the Carrow Rd touch line a week Saturday will have my full support, there is no question of that.

It doesn’t change the fact that Lampard’s spell in management leaves massive question marks over his ability, or lack of, to organise and tighten up a defence. It’s the tactical side of things, which you’ve completely ignored, that I think is what you’ll find actually concerns some of us, and rightly so! That has to be the single most *important* factor in whom we hire - we’re in a relegation dogfight in case you’ve not noticed! 

As for Knutsen, you’re way wide of the mark in your assumption I’ve wanted him because he beat Roma 6-1. I actually had no idea at the time it was him that was the coach behind that impressive result 😝. In actual fact it is absolutely correct that he is someone I only started researching when his name was touted for the job, and the more I read and saw, the more impressed I became with him on all levels of what he’s done at Glimt. For me, those qualities are far more significant than that Roma result in isolation.

And finally, what makes you think that because we haven’t all been tracking Knutsen’s career for the last X amount of years, can an opinion not be formed on his suitability for the position at Norwich City? A very silly thing to say. It just kind of brings me full circle to the initial point of people desiring a new coach because he’s got a fancy famous name in the game and for that reason alone he should be hired. Deny it all you like but there are people that literally want him for this reason alone it appears 🤦🏻‍♂️

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2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Was the question along the lines of  “is it true Lampard has the Norwich job in the bag” or “is Lampard keen to go to Norwich?” though as obviously how the question is worded can make a difference. Not doubting your source.

For clarity, I have gone back and asked my friend who said the question was, 'Is Frank going to be the new boss at Norwich'? to which the reply back was 'no'.

My friend (not Jones) did say though, that he knows that could be down to negotiations hitting an impasse as this has happened before (Derby was my guess) before progress was made. But that is him just imparting previous knowledge and relating it to a current situation, he is not stating that as fact.

So, to sum it up, the bookies are not getting my quid.🤦‍♂️

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14 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

For clarity, I have gone back and asked my friend who said the question was, 'Is Frank going to be the new boss at Norwich'? to which the reply back was 'no'.

My friend (not Jones) did say though, that he knows that could be down to negotiations hitting an impasse as this has happened before (Derby was my guess) before progress was made. But that is him just imparting previous knowledge and relating it to a current situation, he is not stating that as fact.

So, to sum it up, the bookies are not getting my quid.🤦‍♂️

My hunch is Frank is interested in the newly available Rangers job, Crabby. Was 10/1 this morning!

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Just now, Alex Moss said:

My hunch is Frank is interested in the newly available Rangers job, Crabby. Was 10/1 this morning!

Ah ok. I'd have thought we were more of an attractive proposition than Rangers though, from a footballing kudos/progression, surely?

 

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1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Why place so much belief that Farke could turn it around when he's only displayed a regression from a previously poor season at this level?  There's no room for such concession for Lampard who BEAT a Farke team in his first season as a manager? 

It's just blind bias.  You're against the name more than you are the man and ability underneath.

I can't accept the last one. It's the name that people are clinging to and ignoring the ability underneath, trying to shape his obvious failings as something they are not. We've had Mount being called a nobody when Lampard signed him (he was Vitesse's player of the season and in the Eredivise Team of the Year), Derby not being playoff contenders (they were in the playoffs twice in the previous three seasons), Harry Wilson being at his best under Lampard (he was better at Hull the season before) and told that the fact Lampard is statistically the WORST manager Chelsea have had under Abramovich is irrelevant.

Now I'm meant to be optimistic about him because Lampard stole a win against Farke following a freak-floodlight episode at Carrow Road, despite the fact that Farke led a team predicted to finish between 9th and 14th to a title and 20 points ahead of a Lampard team predicted to finish 5th-9th?

It's purely because of the name that people are trying desperately to warp his past managerial record into something less than the mediocre journey it has thus far been. If he had spent his playing career in the lower leagues and never played for England, as a manager with his record he would never get a sniff at the job. Webber used to agree with this;

"But in football, everyone thinks, ‘he played, he was a top footballer, let’s put him in charge of 25 players, 30 staff - and he can deal with the media and the board.’ It’s actually a pretty tough job."

As I said in another post, you can forgive football fans getting carried away and bamboozled by a name, but a Sporting Director of a Premier League football club? Nope.

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Just said on Sky neither Lampard or Smith have decided if they want the job yet , further talks today . News from Norwich is it’s a two man race now so Knutsen seems out .

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1 minute ago, City 101 said:

Just said on Sky neither Lampard or Smith have decided if they want the job yet , further talks today . News from Norwich is it’s a two man race now so Knutsen seems out .

Would be such a massive joke if they both turned us down.

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14 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

It seems to me that the supporters are split into 2 different camps here. One that want a celebrity ex footballer to make us look more ‘big time’, and the other wanting a reasonably tactically astute coach who will hopefully give us a better chance at retaining our PL status this season. Wonder how many Derby shirts Wayne Rooney has sold in the Far East…

I don't think I can post enough eye roll emojis for this. 

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3 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Would be such a massive joke if they both turned us down.

I am confused? I thought this was all tied up, has anything changed @yellow_belly

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1 minute ago, Jsim1986 said:

I am confused? I thought this was all tied up, has anything changed @yellow_belly

Quote from City 101

 

'Just said on Sky neither Lampard or Smith have decided if they want the job yet , further talks today . News from Norwich is it’s a two man race now so Knutsen seems out .'

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1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Quote from City 101

 

'Just said on Sky neither Lampard or Smith have decided if they want the job yet , further talks today . News from Norwich is it’s a two man race now so Knutsen seems out .'

I really hope this isn't true and it's Sky not having a clue, otherwise we will look rather silly!

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