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The Great Mass Debater

How good is Ozan Kabak?

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Having a shufty at Kabak's profile on the new FM22.

Standard disclaimer of 'it's only a game', but at the end of the day the game tries to be as realistic/accurate as possible, and often reflects mainstream perceptions of players (indeed before Prozone etc took over footbal data, some clubs used the FM database to scout players), so I do think some of the data in FM can be discussed as if it has some relevance.

 

On the game, Kabak is rated as a 3 star player (out of 5) with potential as 4, possibly 5. He is consdered a 'Championship standard' player, with potental Premier League ability.

We have an optional £11m future fee negotiated, which is not conditional on promotion. He earns £33,000 a week, which Schalke pay for the duration of the loan. We pay £375k monthly loan fee.

 

So again, yes this is a game and the accuracy of the figures and arrangements are debatable. 

 

For me I struggle to shift the mind-set that the club, and the football world consider Kabak to be a big deal and him being here at the club is a major coup for us. I struggle to see the player purely on merit as the hype about him has been pretty much that he is a world-beater in waiting and we have worked wonders attracting a player of his calibre to the club, and if we were ultimately to acquire him on a permanent he would be a major asset for the club.

Much of this comes from the fact he found himself playing for Liverpool, and they deemed him good enough to play for them when they needed him, but ultimately declined to make him permanent.

The Liverpool fans by all accounts thought highly of him. A peruse of his highlights reel and stats however suggest he was somewhat wanting in a Liverpool shirt.

He is a big unit and is not a one dimensional player, but I find he reads the game poorly, communicates with his team-mates poorly, makes costly mistakes, concedes too many fouls, makes poor decisions and generally isnt an outstanding defender.

 

So is he just some Turkish bloke we've got from a recently relegated German side that Liverpool turned to in a crisis but ultimately passed on, or is he the sh*t waiting to happen?

Edited by The Great Mass Debater

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I rate Kabak - he was thrown in the deep end with Norwich and none of the centre backs have looked particularly great and all made mistakes etc. Worth remembering that Kabak had zero pre-season so went from May to September without playing a single game, even a friendly, and was massively lacking sharpness. Throwing him in against Watford was a mistake and it showed. As he's played more he has improved and was very good in the Burnley and Brighton games in particular.

He has shown he is very good on the ball and is a good passer - a modern centre back rather than an old fashioned one who boots people high. Not that he is weak or poor in the air, which I don't think he is. 

Liverpool were fairly keen to sign him, but they had issues with their homegrown quota and couldn't bring in overseas players without moving some on first, so they decided not to make the deal permanent (especially with Gomez, VVD etc returning from injury).

Despite being a fan of stats etc myself, even those in the industry will tell you they aren't that useful when assessing centre backs. 

Kabak has a high reputation due to good performances in Germany and impressing in several games for Liverpool. Not the finished product by far, but is young and could develop well. Alternately, he might have already plateaued and this is as good as he gets.

(BTW star ratings on FM are based against other players in your squad, not out of all the players in the game)

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At the end of the day he was good enough to be in a Liverpool shirt, he's still young with lots of potential, seems like a good prospect to me

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7 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

BTW star ratings on FM are based against other players in your squad, not out of all the players in the game

There's your answer @The Great Mass Debater loan him out to Ipswich and you'll have a 5 star player on your hands. 🙂

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In my family we have already nicknamed him "The Fridge" because he is about as mobile as one. 

Anything in front of him he's fine with. If I'm an opposition coach, I'm telling my strikers to sit at his side and get behind him because he takes so long to turn.

The other problem he has is he thinks he's Messi.

You're right though - he's 21 and could still improve a lot. At the moment, Andrew O is the better footballer.

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What's the new FM game like? I tend to get one every few years and it's been a while so im tempted to make a purchase. Do you have any chance at all being Norwich?

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I think he has looked ok, but Liverpool supporting mates think he woeful and are so pleased that Liverpool didn't sign him permanently. He is still young and hopefully he can improve and become a one man defensive wall!!

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9 minutes ago, The Raptor said:

What's the new FM game like? I tend to get one every few years and it's been a while so im tempted to make a purchase. Do you have any chance at all being Norwich?

I've just started one as Norwich, if you have an Xbox and have gamepass the game is free...

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1 hour ago, Haus said:

I've just started one as Norwich, if you have an Xbox and have gamepass the game is free...

The gamepass cloud is also great. Been using that to play the xbox version of FM22 on my iPad! I think you could actually do it even if you dont have xbox, as long as you have gamepass ultimate.

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3 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Having a shufty at Kabak's profile on the new FM22.

Standard disclaimer of 'it's only a game', but at the end of the day the game tries to be as realistic/accurate as possible, and often reflects mainstream perceptions of players (indeed before Prozone etc took over footbal data, some clubs used the FM database to scout players), so I do think some of the data in FM can be discussed as if it has some relevance.

 

On the game, Kabak is rated as a 3 star player (out of 5) with potential as 4, possibly 5. He is consdered a 'Championship standard' player, with potental Premier League ability.

We have an optional £11m future fee negotiated, which is not conditional on promotion. He earns £33,000 a week, which Schalke pay for the duration of the loan. We pay £375k monthly loan fee.

 

So again, yes this is a game and the accuracy of the figures and arrangements are debatable. 

 

For me I struggle to shift the mind-set that the club, and the football world consider Kabak to be a big deal and him being here at the club is a major coup for us. I struggle to see the player purely on merit as the hype about him has been pretty much that he is a world-beater in waiting and we have worked wonders attracting a player of his calibre to the club, and if we were ultimately to acquire him on a permanent he would be a major asset for the club.

Much of this comes from the fact he found himself playing for Liverpool, and they deemed him good enough to play for them when they needed him, but ultimately declined to make him permanent.

The Liverpool fans by all accounts thought highly of him. A peruse of his highlights reel and stats however suggest he was somewhat wanting in a Liverpool shirt.

He is a big unit and is not a one dimensional player, but I find he reads the game poorly, communicates with his team-mates poorly, makes costly mistakes, concedes too many fouls, makes poor decisions and generally isnt an outstanding defender.

 

So is he just some Turkish bloke we've got from a recently relegated German side that Liverpool turned to in a crisis but ultimately passed on, or is he the sh*t waiting to happen?

“FM22”

>stopped reading

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2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

The other problem he has is he thinks he's Messi.

Pretty sure he's only run with the ball because Farke instructed him too, otherwised he'd have been crucified by Farke wouldn't he.

Can't blame him for following tactical instructions.

Personally I think our young Irishman is the best centre back we have. 

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3 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

We have an optional £11m future fee negotiated, which is not conditional on promotion.

Where are you planning on being promoted to?

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1 hour ago, Haus said:

I've just started one as Norwich, if you have an Xbox and have gamepass the game is free...

I trust you've completed the main objective of the game. Keano 17 successfully took Ipswich down to the conference!

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2 hours ago, The Raptor said:

What's the new FM game like? I tend to get one every few years and it's been a while so im tempted to make a purchase. Do you have any chance at all being Norwich?

If you haven't played it for a few years then it is definitely well worth it imo. The changes are pretty incremental but it will feel really fresh if you haven't bought a new one in 3+ years. (Says me who buys it every year without fail) 

But to answer the question I feel that he is actually a very good defender who has just been chucked into a faltering Norwich side, I really like his aggression and ability to bring out the ball from defence with a nice run or two which brings me back to the heart in mouth moments when Bassong used to maraud forward and sometimes (usually) lose the ball.

Edited by robertociNCFC

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He think is Zidane and especially against Leeds was no any right decision for 90 min 

I was amazed how is possible CB to have so bad game like this.

Overall for some reasons Kabak is with label wonderkid last years I hope is not because have good personal manager but really because have great potential who we still waiting to see it.

On papper Kabak and Normann both must be  on different level from other players we have but so far Kabak look too relaxed and error prone on positioning and runs with the ball.

If next 5 games no progress I really doubt about Ozan liability at all.

 

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8 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

(BTW star ratings on FM are based against other players in your squad, not out of all the players in the game)

Oh yeah, I forgot that. But my point was more that he wasnt 5 stars, and interestingly is on a par with our other CBs, apart from Gibson who you can squeeze 3.5 stars out of if you play him as a ball playing defender.

Interesting point about Liverpool's home-grown quota. Wonder how much that was a factor behind us cancelling some German contracts?

Edited by The Great Mass Debater

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6 hours ago, The Raptor said:

What's the new FM game like? I tend to get one every few years and it's been a while so im tempted to make a purchase. Do you have any chance at all being Norwich?

I had 2016 which Id squeezed everything out of. Stepped up to 2020 but have to admit it never really grabbed me as much as previous versions.

I downloaded the FM21 demo a few weeks ago in preparation for the FM22 release. I've only really had a look at the features so far. FM21 had a number of welcom improvements on FM20 and I liked it a lot more. FM22 so far seems very similar. A few little improvements, but also a few things changed for the sake of it it feels. 

I normally explore a new version with Norwich to begin with, and then once Im familiar with the game I try to come up with a more interesting game.

My most recent game was trying to replicate Athletic Bilbao's signing policy at Wrexham for instance.

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5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Personally I think our young Irishman is the best centre back we have. 

Im yet to see him have a bad game, and he will surely only get better. He has a formidable physique already, but at only 19 he'll likely become a monster

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4 hours ago, robertociNCFC said:

If you haven't played it for a few years then it is definitely well worth it imo. The changes are pretty incremental but it will feel really fresh if you haven't bought a new one in 3+ years. (Says me who buys it every year without fail) 

But to answer the question I feel that he is actually a very good defender who has just been chucked into a faltering Norwich side, I really like his aggression and ability to bring out the ball from defence with a nice run or two which brings me back to the heart in mouth moments when Bassong used to maraud forward and sometimes (usually) lose the ball.

 

I sometimes worry that loan players play riskier football than they might ordinarily do. Brandon Williams for example is only looking to impress Ole Gunnar Solksjaer, therefore will make riskier runs because if it pays off he will get rave reviews. If it falls on it's ar-se then who cares? It's only Norwich. I felt like that about David Bentley - looking only to impress Arsenal peeps, so tried to score worldies when a simple pass would have been better for the team.

So I do wonder if Kabak's pirouetting is somewhat to do with trying to impress as an individual and add to his highlights reel than for the good of the team.

By the way, was there any truth to the rumour Billy Gilmour was seen celebrating with the Chelsea players after the 7-0?

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1 hour ago, Boris said:

so far Kabak look too relaxed and error prone on positioning and runs with the ball.

 

I wonder if this is because he is a loan player. Normann so far has broken the mould but as I said in a previous post, I see a lot of casual play from loan players, and decisions which maybe seek to enhance their reputation if they come off, but are low risk if they dont as who cares? I've seen a bit of it in Williams, Kabak and as I mentioned previously Bentley. I wouldnt put it past Gilmour. Individual play to enhance their individual reputation, rather than sensible decisions for the benefit of the team. I think it's more than the inexperience and arrogance of youth. I get the feeling it's because they arent too commited to the club and dont really care about the fortunes of the team.

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16 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

I wonder if this is because he is a loan player. Normann so far has broken the mould but as I said in a previous post, I see a lot of casual play from loan players, and decisions which maybe seek to enhance their reputation if they come off, but are low risk if they dont as who cares? I've seen a bit of it in Williams, Kabak and as I mentioned previously Bentley. I wouldnt put it past Gilmour. Individual play to enhance their individual reputation, rather than sensible decisions for the benefit of the team. I think it's more than the inexperience and arrogance of youth. I get the feeling it's because they arent too commited to the club and dont really care about the fortunes of the team.

Kabak is here with option that we must buy him if stay in PL so I not see any pressure on him to do solo efforts or fireworks  to impress some one !

My opinion is that his gamble play is may be because this "famous"run away at Burnley and south mentality make him overconfident at times...

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6 hours ago, Flying Dutchman said:

Where are you planning on being promoted to?

Now we are about to be Frank Lampard’s Norwich City, the imminent European Super League obvs.

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18 hours ago, Haus said:

I've just started one as Norwich, if you have an Xbox and have gamepass the game is free...

So this has been really hard so far, 6 games in and I have 2 pts....... 

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