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Emma Hayes enters the betting odds

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Just now, Jsim1986 said:

The fact she is even being mentioned is a joke, should be no where near the betting 

please elaborate why "it's a joke". I may agree but short jibes like this aren't particularly helpful to discussion.

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1 hour ago, KeiranShikari said:

No, because the people hiring in women's football know that men's football is at a better standard.

not correct at all. Phil Neville clearly did have to prove himself by taking the relevant coaching courses and getting experience as assistant manager etc. otherwise they might as well have appointed me. I'd have been cheaper!

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Just now, Tetteys Jig said:

please elaborate why "it's a joke". I may agree but short jibes like this aren't particularly helpful to discussion.

Of course no problem, would a man of similar experience in the ladies game, would they be being linked with Norwich ? That is a rhetorical question. Emma Hayes is simply linked because she is a female. I am not saying lady managers shouldn't be in the game , however they need to earn the stripes in the men's game, managing at a high level in the ladies game compared to men's is absolutely chalk and cheese.

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1 minute ago, Jsim1986 said:

Of course no problem, would a man of similar experience in the ladies game, would they be being linked with Norwich ? That is a rhetorical question. Emma Hayes is simply linked because she is a female. I am not saying lady managers shouldn't be in the game , however they need to earn the stripes in the men's game, managing at a high level in the ladies game compared to men's is absolutely chalk and cheese.

and I'd agree 👍 hopefully someone does find a way in to the men's game via the woman's game but it's got to be done right.

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1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

**** me, you are vile. 

And that's precisely why it's not going to happen. It's a shame that in 2021 you can't have a serious conversation about a female football manager without a misogynistic response.

You're always going to have that old white man 'it's only a laugh' and 'it was ok in our generation' mentality in the terraces, and unfortunately the clubs still aren't brave enough to move in an alternative direction, presumably because they're worried about that kind of reaction??

Shame though that it means that someone like Emma Hayes who has absolutely nothing to prove (no more so than any other manager coming into the PL for the first time) simply won't ever get that opportunity.

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2 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

they're neither completely irrelevant or the be all and end all. The real answer is much more nuanced hence the discussion and debate.

We should be having these difficult discussions and debates without the need to resort to silly jibes and toxicity from people picking sides. It would be a big change and a big moment for the game so it's important to get things right.

With your message, you have failed to express why you think the physicality and skill levels are completely irrelevant to Emma Hayes management ability. Perhaps in doing so you'd create discussion rather than just more division.

The physicality and skill levels are a point, but not necessarily a big one when it comes to judging her ability, however, the physicality is a massive one when it comes to contextualising the mens team Vs womens team matches. For proof look at how many youth team players excel in large part because they develop at an earlier age, then when the rest of the cohort catch up they turn out to be average.

A good manager can manage within the limitations they are presented and will adjust their management and tactics accordingly, but they are not defined by those limitations. Put Tuchel in charge of a women's team and you would expect his approach and tactics to differ from those he uses at Chelsea. With our setup there is potentially the pertinent point that she wouldn't be coming in as a manager, but rather a head coach, but, surround her with people used to coaching men's teams and that should lessen that impact considerably. 

As I said earlier, I am playing devils advocate here, I'm not saying she would be a great appointment, but I'm also not dismissing it out of hand like many seem to be on this thread. She obviously does have tactical insight and an appreciation of men's football and I believe that the skills she has already got should be transferable from the women's game, but we are a difficult proposition for any manager coming in, no matter what background they come from and would frame any failure in that context rather than because she is coming from WSL.

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It’s extremely annoying that the article is written in such a condescending way - bringing misogyny into it is simply unnecessary, and actually rather offensive.

Like it or not, there’s currently a huge gulf between the women’s and men’s games, it has been closing and the game is better for it, but I’m not sure a PL side is where we’ll start seeing such a move. 

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10 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

not correct at all. Phil Neville clearly did have to prove himself by taking the relevant coaching courses and getting experience as assistant manager etc. otherwise they might as well have appointed me. I'd have been cheaper!

Did you play to a decent level in the men's football pyramid?

My point wasn't well thought out though as I hadn't actually considered the amount of male vs female coaching badge holders. Half of the managers in the WSL are male but way more than half of the badge holders will be.

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2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

And what about the Norwegian league?

I agree with it, to a degree. But at least he's taken a weak Norwegian team to a title, rather than a relative favourite, followed by some good results in the Europa League. But I equally don't want Lampard as I don't think he has significant experience nor has he shown more ability than Farke.

 

2 hours ago, cornish sam said:

I'm not going to pretend that I know her tactical style currently, but am going to continue to play devils advocate on this one.

Just because the WSL may require a different level of tactical nouse doesn't mean that she isn't operating at a higher level than required, hence she is so successful. She obviously knows the level of tactics required from her punditry, the only challenge may be in getting a men's changing room to respect her knowledge. And to continue the analogies, so would you say someone bossing league one shouldn't be offered a PL job, or someone bossing Scottish football (not old firm)? Or even someone bossing the Norwegian league as the majority of that is probably lower quality than league one? 

Just because someone has a job in a lower level organisation doesn't mean they can't be performing at a higher level or able to step up to said level easily. You normally come across as one of the more open minded and even handed posters on here yet seem to be dismissing her because she is coming from a level that you and others have equated to league one...

Of course they can, and of course she could be an excellent manager for us. I'm just saying personally, I'd like to go for a bit more relevant experience if possible. It's not just the level, I've just read a lot about the lack of tactical discipline in the WSL. It could be bigoted rubbish, I have no idea, but it's the only relevant information i've got to go on. 

It doesn't help that i'm not massively in love with the decision to sack Farke in the first place so I'm pretty strong about wanting someone who's shown to be better than Farke. I'm not sure Hayes or Lampard have done that.

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2 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Oh here we go stereotyping at it's finest.

How about your generation that goes round spiking young ladies drinks ?

Like 84 year old Bill Crosby?

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2 hours ago, Budapest Canary said:

I mentioned Hayes as a piece of trolling on the Lampard thread two days ago, I'm glad someone exploits its potential. Women's football is lightyears behind men's tactically, physically, technically. I'd thought it was on par with top U-17 football until somebody pointed out that the US women's team  is known to lost to an U-13 boys team in a training match. So maybe even U-17 is an overestimate. Anyway a  League One side would win women's world cup any day.    

It will never be on par physically. That is impossible. 

It was an under 15 team that beat the US women's team, not under 13.

We are talking a coach here, not a player, so what relevance is the physicality please? You are going off on a tangent. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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50 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I agree with it, to a degree. But at least he's taken a weak Norwegian team to a title, rather than a relative favourite, followed by some good results in the Europa League. But I equally don't want Lampard as I don't think he has significant experience nor has he shown more ability than Farke.

 

Of course they can, and of course she could be an excellent manager for us. I'm just saying personally, I'd like to go for a bit more relevant experience if possible. It's not just the level, I've just read a lot about the lack of tactical discipline in the WSL. It could be bigoted rubbish, I have no idea, but it's the only relevant information i've got to go on. 

It doesn't help that i'm not massively in love with the decision to sack Farke in the first place so I'm pretty strong about wanting someone who's shown to be better than Farke. I'm not sure Hayes or Lampard have done that.

Why don't we kill two birds with one stone then.... and appoint Renate Blindheim, the female (and Norweigen) head coach of a professional mens team in the Norweigen second division. Led them to their highest position in modern history last season (7th in second tier).

 

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It's an interesting suggestion but don't think it's what we need right now, male or female we need someone with the experience to keep us in the league

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5 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I haven’t had a Christmas tree up for 12 years, highly recommended it to others too 

No thank you, a Dr's index finger was quite  enough for me.

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Although you could be forgiven for missing it due to the constant banging on about "self funding" as if its some kind of brave new world (as opposed to flogging your best players to enable the owners to keep hold of the club) we are a premier league football club and not some sort of social experiment. 

If someone else wants to give Emma Hayes a job in the mens game then good luck to them but she is very clearly not the best candidate for our job and this moment in time and I find the fact that some of our fans think it would "love" to appoint her, primarily so they can label anyone who moaned about it as sexist, is tiresome. 

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Maybe we should look at this in a different as she wouldn't be the first coach to move from women's football to men's football (am I still allowed to state women's and men's).

Anyway, ignoring the fact that she is female but looking at this from a record of achievement moving from one to the other.

As far as I can see there have been 2 high profile managers leave the women's game for the men's; the first being Mark Sampson. He did a great job with the England ladies and you could argue that he had just as good a coaching record as Hayes, subsequent to being helped out of the women's game the best he could find was first team COACH at Stevenage Town, where he has subsequently left. Stevenage Town play in League 2.

The other one would of course be Phil Neville, he got the managers job at Inter Miami and he is hardly excelling and is working for his mate Becks.

Does this suggest that the transition from women's football to men's football is harder and is everyone jumping on the Emma Hayes bandwagon because its now fashionable 🤷🏻‍♂️

Yes she has won stuff with Chelsea and seems to know what she is talking about during her pundit slots; but neither of which make her some kind of outstanding candidate for the job.

We might aswell go and get Sampson in if we want that transition or is the transition simply about a women managing a men's team 🤔

For the record I don't care either way but as per my comment the other day about KK, seems as though some of the experts of him and Norwegian football are now experts on Hayes and Chelsea women's.

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Interestingly enough (or not maybe) she is on FM22 and is currently Gillingham boss on my save.

Personally I don't think she'd leave Chelsea for them as the money wouldn't be near as good primarily but I guess it gives some insight

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27 minutes ago, Rich T The Biscuit said:

Maybe we should look at this in a different as she wouldn't be the first coach to move from women's football to men's football (am I still allowed to state women's and men's).

Anyway, ignoring the fact that she is female but looking at this from a record of achievement moving from one to the other.

As far as I can see there have been 2 high profile managers leave the women's game for the men's; the first being Mark Sampson. He did a great job with the England ladies and you could argue that he had just as good a coaching record as Hayes, subsequent to being helped out of the women's game the best he could find was first team COACH at Stevenage Town, where he has subsequently left. Stevenage Town play in League 2.

On answer to your question, of course you are. As far as I know, no-one has ever said you’re not.

But “ladies”? Not so much, unless you call all men “gentlemen”.

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22 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

It will never be on par physically. That is impossible. 

It was an under 15 team that beat the US women's team, not under 13.

We are talking a coach here, not a player, so what relevance is the physicality please? You are going off on a tangent. 

I got the age group wrong, sorry about that. But then U-15 coaches are also seldom being appointed as head coaches or managers for a reason. Training players of different ability requires different coaching skills, so physicality, player skills  or tactics do matter as they define the coach's experience and possibilities. To put it bluntly the fact you can drive a car doesn't make you an F-1 driver, even a truck driver. 

 

Obviously, some concepts work very differently in women's football. I happened to watch the 2019 Women's Champions' League  final in Budapest between Barcelona and Lyon. (I took my wife and daughter, the three tickets together (!) were a fiver! Missus and daughter really enjoyed it, as they said they found it easier to follow than men's football.)   It was entertaining, after all it was a CL final, no less, but it was also a surprisingly one sided affair for a final as Lyon finished it off  in 30 minutes (4-1, 3-0 HT).  As the match chugged on towards its obvious outcome, I could not help noticing that entire registers  of football were missing: they hardly ever marked players from closer that a yard, tackling again was almost entirely non-physical. IN terms of long balls, Lyon had one or two defenders, who had some impressively accurate 50 yard passes, and used it as a dangerous weapon, but Barcelona didn't even try it, perhaps out of club tradition, but then to make the short passing game work they ought to have run about twice as much as they did, as they could hardly cross the halfway line.    On the other hand, there was  no gamesmanship, playacting, complaining, the usual gimmicks, which was a breath of fresh air. But all in all it was a whole different ballgame. I'm not saying women coaching men's game is the realm of the impossible, but it's  unchartered land, the gap is huge and it's not the right time for City to venture into such a bold experiment anyway.  I hope I didn't offend anyone by saying these. 

 That said, I'd be curious to see an Emma Hayes-style hairdryer treatment.

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52 minutes ago, glory.win or die. said:

No thank you, a Dr's index finger was quite  enough for me.

Even with foldaway branches? You don’t know what your missing. 

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10 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Even with foldaway branches? You don’t know what your missing. 

That's all very well, but taking it down in January still brings a tear to the eye.

Tear or tear, I'll leave that up to you.

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50 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

On answer to your question, of course you are. As far as I know, no-one has ever said you’re not.

But “ladies”? Not so much, unless you call all men “gentlemen”.

Oops, off with my head as that will likely offend someone who doesn't like to he called a lady, or maybe I should have said she/her....oh I don't know 🤦

Anyway point still stands and I'm off to tell Webber to get Phil Neville in.

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47 minutes ago, Budapest Canary said:

That said, I'd be curious to see an Emma Hayes-style hairdryer treatment.

I think I need to see evidence as this is now starting to become as famous as the Fergie ones.

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This post is pure bait

tge whole situation makes me feel uncomfortable. It seems to me she’s being pressured to pursue jobs and become “the first” then the microscope will be on her immediately, far more intense than an equivalent male manager. She’ll be used as a vehicle to make political points.

I suspect all she really wants to do is manage a football team. Has anyone asked her what she wants or is it mainly what other people want her to do 

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Quite a lot of absurdity on this thread. There's an impressive amount of reasons this appointment would be preposterous.

Shall we just leave it at that? 🤷‍♂️

 

 

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3 hours ago, alex_ncfc said:

Ah yes, the box-ticking brigade are out again. 

Absolute nonsense that this is even being discussed. 

Why is it nonsense that it is being discussed? As @Alex Moss said in one of the lampard threads, take the name away and look at the record and would you be happy for us to get someone who for the last 9 years managing in their top league has:

A win %ge of over 67%;

Won the league 4 times;

Won the cup(s) 4 times

Got to the semi final twice and the final once of the top continental competition.

 

Now I'm not saying she is the correct person for the job, she might be, but, I don't know enough about her to judge, however it is far from nonsense that it should be discussed.

 

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7 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

Why is it nonsense that it is being discussed? As @Alex Moss said in one of the lampard threads, take the name away and look at the record and would you be happy for us to get someone who for the last 9 years managing in their top league has:

A win %ge of over 67%;

Won the league 4 times;

Won the cup(s) 4 times

Got to the semi final twice and the final once of the top continental competition.

 

Now I'm not saying she is the correct person for the job, she might be, but, I don't know enough about her to judge, however it is far from nonsense that it should be discussed.

 

All well and good but you're missing 2 key elements.

1. The level of the football

2. The level of the players being coached

I'm not saying any of this to be disrespectful to her or any female coach but stats alone tell you nothing.

I could apply for the job because I manage a youth team that hasn't lost for 3 years and I'm a qualified coach so am I to be considered; of course not.

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