The wrong move.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Daniel Farke was the heart and soul of the last four and a half years.  His success was phenomenal - a club with a whole new squad of nothing but freebies and cheapies, turned into championship winners. A style of football unrivalled by anything we have seen for years, if ever. The most scintillating of football imaginable at times, added to which - or part of which was the spirit he engendered at the club on and off the pitch. Fantastic performances and wins against top league teams - Man City in the PL and Tottenham in the cup stick in the mind particularly. Had the rottenest luck with injuries and covid which ruined any possibility of success last PL season - and then at the beginning of this, again with covid, then two main players coming in late,  so little time to build anything before the - again bad luck (or was it planned) of the most difficult fixtures to start the season.

But he came through it, got us picking up the odd points here and there and even a win to break the hoodoo of that stat which people delighted in bandying around about no wins in the PL since I don't know when, depsite a record breaking season that he had to rebuild spirit and turn a losing mentality to a winning one.

Now that last sentence is what gets me....he turned a losing mentality into a winning one..........doesn't that tell you something about the measure of the man?  That he proved he can overcome adversity and turn something round.  "But he can't do it in the PL" they cry - well did you actually follow the last time we were in it? Did you notice anything about the injuries, covid and the even more acute lack of resources than we have now?

He even rode the storm of the losing streak, starting picking up the odd point and then the win - an improvement - which is after all what we wanted to see - currently 13th in the form table.  So he fell out with one or two players - tough - they should toe the line and everybody knows where Farke stands on discipline and that the team group is what matters, not individuals. 

So he should have been supported by Webber, not thrown under the bus. Imo.  Webber should crawl to him and ask him back because it is very unlikely we will find someone else as good as he was at bringing players through to the first team. Witness the way he schooled Omobamidele - even on the pitch after matches.  A truly class act of a manager......and how much money has he brought in by his superb coaching of players and increasing their value? Well over £100 million. And we sacked him.

I know Webber was the one who got him here in the first place, but I would have preferred Webber to go than Farke. There, I said it and we have just sacked probably the best long term manager we were ever going to get - and his tenure should have been a lot longer, given the circumstances.  Webber has sold out in trying to gamble his way to success this season, when he should have recognised that if we aren't good enough this season under Farke, so be it - and if one or two players were unhappy because they weren't being picked....stuff them, because their job is to fight their way to the team, not undermine the manager.

As you can tell, I'm still annoyed by what has transpired and the new manager better be a class act too, or we have thrown away the baby with the bath water.  The king has gone, long live the king, or whatever the saying is......but he had better be good!!

Edited November 9, 2021 by lake district canary

[birchfest 397]

It’s done. Time to move on.

[Yobocop 1,095]

Give it a rest LDC 

[CDMullins 436]

Lol

[Gibbo 131]

He'd done more than enough to be given more time.  I did think we had changed as a club to look at the big picture, but it seems we've jumped on the short term bandwagon with all the other prem teams now.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Give it a rest LDC, if it was up to you Worthy would still be in charge. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

Farke came in for a reason. That reason was to help us transition from a team with a load of older players on high wages to a team that refocused on bringing youth along whilst cutting the wage bill as part of making us a much more self-sufficient club. He kept us mid-table in his first season with some very stolid displays after a couple of early pastings against Millwall and Aston Villa, but showed a willingness to learn quickly in the process.

Don't think anyone expected his second season though. So many late wins, changes of fortune - and indeed some of the purchases considered to be mistakes then came good in grand style, Vrancic and Stiepermann particularly leading that bandwagon as Pukki whacked in goal after goal after goal. And we did that with a back four with an average age in the low 20s. Not many saw that coming, especially in a league as hard-nosed and competitive from top to bottom as the Championship. And we did it after selling Maddison, with people wondering "where's the creativity coming from?", to which the answer was "hola, Emi!"

Yeah, we lacked a bit of nous, not to mention fully fit centre-halves, for rather too much of that first Premier League season. Not to mention a bloody worldwide pandemic. Still, the record of teams relegated from the top flight to the Championship was not the greatest. Not too many got back up right away, whether automatically or via the play-offs.

Which leads us to that record-breaking season. We battled through an injury crisis early on such that many of us thought we'd do well to hang on around the edge of the play-off spots then make a move. Names like Dickson-Peters, Omotoye and McAlear were staples on our bench. We hardly had any senior pros left. Sörensen made a name for himself as an improvising left-back. And still the good results came. And we did it with a defensively more responsible style, thinking we'd got the balance right.

But we probably didn't, not helped by having to sell Buendia (after all, look at Kane's anaemic performances so far this season), and the finance was useful, but the newcomers are gelling at different speeds. A Covid-riddled pre-season didn't help, as we were the only side to cancel two friendlies IIRC and some of the new signings came late.

I said in an older thread that I'd be more than happy to keep Farke for the whole season provided he hadn't lost the dressing room as I thought he'd earned the chance to rebuild, just happened to be when getting promoted, a very unusual state of affairs. It's looking like he may have lost a fair few.

He may not have had enough about him to turn it around in the top flight. But he did the initial job he set out to do so well that many of us hoped he could stay around a long time. Ultimately, he fell a little short of that.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Great Championship manager, out of his depth in the Premier League. I am not happy with the way the club handled his sacking, he deserved better than that but his record at Premier League level was awful.......

Edited November 9, 2021 by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB

[hogesar 9,618]

I'm not sure getting rid was the right answer either but equally he was never going to be here forever regardless.

I'm not sure why we should have got rid of Webber instead of Farke mind. Unless you're saying all his signings this season are poor, which they may be, but I'm not sure its fair to judge that one yet 

[ron obvious 1,499]

I'll be very surprised if the new manager has anywhere near as much long term success as Daniel & even more surprised if he will be held in as much esteem & with as much affection in, say, 5 years time.

Who knows? He might be even better in every way. But I think this is the most likely outcome.

[Hardhouse44 261]

I think you need grief counselling.

[Branston Pickle 3,634]

This post is just wrong, managers/coaches usually have a finite lifespan and Farke had reached the end of his.  Anyone witnessing the poor efforts at Man City and Chelsea, followed by the muddled effort against Leeds would come to the same conclusion. That’s not to say it isn’t sad and we shouldn’t thank him and wish him well - of course we should - but I he’s probably a lot less bothered about it than LDC!

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Branston Pickle

[The Real Buh 3,423]

The definition of til;dr, don’t worry so much my dude

[lake district canary 4,531]

10 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Great Championship manager, out of his depth in the Premier League. I am not happy with the way the club handled his sacking, he deserved better than that but his record at Premier League level was awful.......

Webber admitted it was his fault we failed the last PL season through not signing the right kind of players. So is the blame really Farke's for that PL season, on such little resources to work with, huge injury crisis and dealing with lockdown that all but destroyed any chance we had of regaining a bit of momentum? 

And no-one seems to give him credit this season for improving results. 5 points in 5 games. Quite an improvement on the first 6 games. And if you are improving there is a very good argument for keeping someone on.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

Lakey, explain how getting rid of Webber would affect our results for the rest of this season for me please? 🤔

It’s not a zero sum game, that we had to sack one of them to give ourselves a chance of staying up. Or do you believe that because you like Farke, Webber has to go?

[Mr Tea 105]

We have 27 ish games to go. Honestly could anyone really see it getting much better than it had for the first 10 ?

I love DF as much as most but there was no way it could carry on for all those games still to go. All the good feeling he has would have been eroded.

 

[thebigfeller 200]

Whatever the most conservative option is, LDC will always support it. Nothing unusual in that: there's conservatives, blind faith "I'm a better fan than you" types, oblivious types, attention seekers, serial moaners, doommongers and pathological boat-rockers in every fanbase. 

But the reality is we cannot afford to think conservative. Being ultra-conservative in how we behaved with Worthington, in particular, set us on a path towards administration. Being hard headed and by our standards, radical, pulled us back from the brink in the nick of time. As it did again, under the man Lakey would rather be replaced. Which is a complete and utter nonsense.

Under the very model which has taken us so far, the head coach can always be dispensed with. The general manager / sporting director is indispensable. It's a structure which most European clubs have used for decades: it's sustainable, it stops things going stale and it means no club stands or falls purely by who its head coach happens to be. With the financial stakes in the modern game being as terrifying as they are, that last point is absolutely imperative.

Lakey will keep making excuses for a record of 25 points in 49 PL games (half a point per game!) forever. Lakey will comically describe someone with such a record as having a 'winning mentality' (not in the top league, he didn't) and having 'turned things around' thanks to one scrambled against the run of play win against poor opponents who are very much relegation material themselves. Yet not a single PL club will be remotely interested in Daniel - and no other PL club would ever tolerate a record like that, regardless of injuries in the first PL season.

Injuries happen to almost all clubs; it's how a manager deals with that sort of adversity which shows what they're made of. As does how they utilise new signings (Farke didn't know how to) and get full value from the best talent (see Cantwell and Gilmour for more on that one).

I support Norwich City FC. I don't support Daniel Farke FC. Like I didn't support Paul Lambert FC or Mike Walker FC or Nigel Worthington FC. Life goes on; successful organisations move forwards and don't look back. And in the absence of what we really need - money, money and more money under new owners - the club has done exactly what it needed to do. It's been bold, brave, it's not dithered like it so often has in the past, and it deserves our full support.

Only a tiny handful of people inside the club know who we've approached. No-one else knows anything. Least of all 99% of the media and especially, the betting markets: for which, every next manager market is a gigantic scam to enrich betting companies and nobody else. Every name mentioned so far should be treated with a large pinch of salt; we won't know until we know. But I'm very confident Webber already knew who he wanted, and it should just be a case of trusting in and completing the process. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by thebigfeller

[Nuff Said 5,089]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Webber admitted it was his fault we failed the last PL season through not signing the right kind of players. So is the blame really Farke's for that PL season, on such little resources to work with, huge injury crisis and dealing with lockdown that all but destroyed any chance we had of regaining a bit of momentum? 

And no-one seems to give him credit this season for improving results. 5 points in 5 games. Quite an improvement on the first 6 games. And if you are improving there is a very good argument for keeping someone on.

Yes, there’s mitigation for our last PL season. But for the confused tactics, lack of spirit in our performances and the apparent refusal to play what are potentially some of our best players for this one? Not so much.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Just now, Nuff Said said:

Lakey, explain how getting rid of Webber would affect our results for the rest of this season for me please? 🤔

It’s not a zero sum game, that we had to sack one of them to give ourselves a chance of staying up. Or do you believe that because you like Farke, Webber has to go?

 I didn't really mean it like that. Just that if someone had to go, I would rather it had been Webber.  Farke, would imo have continued the improvement in results we have seen in the last five games. Our greatest ever season in the PL in 92/93 contained several thrashings interspersed with good results - and I think that as the team developed, that is what would have happened this season - improved results and a few harsh lessons - maybe stay up, maybe not, but improvement, anyway.

[thebigfeller 200]

10 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Because you like Farke, Webber has to go?

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

[Yobocop 1,095]

57 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

He'd done more than enough to be given more time.  I did think we had changed as a club to look at the big picture, but it seems we've jumped on the short term bandwagon with all the other prem teams now.

Man was with us 5 years 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Webber admitted it was his fault we failed the last PL season through not signing the right kind of players. So is the blame really Farke's for that PL season, on such little resources to work with, huge injury crisis and dealing with lockdown that all but destroyed any chance we had of regaining a bit of momentum? 

And no-one seems to give him credit this season for improving results. 5 points in 5 games. Quite an improvement on the first 6 games. And if you are improving there is a very good argument for keeping someone on.

Within that improvement was letting Brighton off the hook, they were there for the taking. Leeds were there for the taking as were Leicester, two more missed opportunities. It could be argued that a change of formation, enforced by injuries led to the win at Brentford, not sure the result would have been the same had we been set up the same as the previous games.........

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Daniel Farke was the heart and soul of the last four and a half years.  His success was phenomenal - a club with a whole new squad of nothing but freebies and cheapies, turned into championship winners. A style of football unrivalled by anything we have seen for years, if ever. The most scintillating of football imaginable at times, added to which - or part of which was the spirit he engendered at the club on and off the pitch. Fantastic performances and wins against top league teams - Man City in the PL and Tottenham in the cup stick in the mind particularly. Had the rottenest luck with injuries and covid which ruined any possibility of success last PL season - and then at the beginning of this, again with covid, then two main players coming in late,  so little time to build anything before the - again bad luck (or was it planned) of the most difficult fixtures to start the season.

But he came through it, got us picking up the odd points here and there and even a win to break the hoodoo of that stat which people delighted in bandying around about no wins in the PL since I don't know when, depsite a record breaking season that he had to rebuild spirit and turn a losing mentality to a winning one.

Now that last sentence is what gets me....he turned a losing mentality into a winning one..........doesn't that tell you something about the measure of the man?  That he proved he can overcome adversity and turn something round.  "But he can't do it in the PL" they cry - well did you actually follow the last time we were in it? Did you notice anything about the injuries, covid and the even more acute lack of resources than we have now?

He even rode the storm of the losing streak, starting picking up the odd point and then the win - an improvement - which is after all what we wanted to see - currently 13th in the form table.  So he fell out with one or two players - tough - they should toe the line and everybody knows where Farke stands on discipline and that the team group is what matters, not individuals. 

So he should have been supported by Webber, not thrown under the bus. Imo.  Webber should crawl to him and ask him back because it is very unlikely we will find someone else as good as he was at bringing players through to the first team. Witness the way he schooled Omobamidele - even on the pitch after matches.  A truly class act of a manager......and how much money has he brought in by his superb coaching of players and increasing their value? Well over £100 million. And we sacked him.

I know Webber was the one who got him here in the first place, but I would have preferred Webber to go than Farke. There, I said it and we have just sacked probably the best long term manager we were ever going to get - and his tenure should have been a lot longer, given the circumstances.  Webber has sold out in trying to gamble his way to success this season, when he should have recognised that 

I really hate it when people don’t get behind the team and continually moan. 
Pull yourself together . 

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I really hate it when people don’t get behind the team and continually moan. 
Pull yourself together . 

I'll do that when I'm ready to, probably for the next game 👍

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

5 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I really hate it when people don’t get behind the team and continually moan. 
Pull yourself together . 

Beat me to it!

[Mullet 293]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Daniel Farke was the heart and soul of the last four and a half years.  His success was phenomenal - a club with a whole new squad of nothing but freebies and cheapies, turned into championship winners. A style of football unrivalled by anything we have seen for years, if ever. The most scintillating of football imaginable at times, added to which - or part of which was the spirit he engendered at the club on and off the pitch. Fantastic performances and wins against top league teams - Man City in the PL and Tottenham in the cup stick in the mind particularly. Had the rottenest luck with injuries and covid which ruined any possibility of success last PL season - and then at the beginning of this, again with covid, then two main players coming in late,  so little time to build anything before the - again bad luck (or was it planned) of the most difficult fixtures to start the season.

But he came through it, got us picking up the odd points here and there and even a win to break the hoodoo of that stat which people delighted in bandying around about no wins in the PL since I don't know when, depsite a record breaking season that he had to rebuild spirit and turn a losing mentality to a winning one.

Now that last sentence is what gets me....he turned a losing mentality into a winning one..........doesn't that tell you something about the measure of the man?  That he proved he can overcome adversity and turn something round.  "But he can't do it in the PL" they cry - well did you actually follow the last time we were in it? Did you notice anything about the injuries, covid and the even more acute lack of resources than we have now?

He even rode the storm of the losing streak, starting picking up the odd point and then the win - an improvement - which is after all what we wanted to see - currently 13th in the form table.  So he fell out with one or two players - tough - they should toe the line and everybody knows where Farke stands on discipline and that the team group is what matters, not individuals. 

So he should have been supported by Webber, not thrown under the bus. Imo.  Webber should crawl to him and ask him back because it is very unlikely we will find someone else as good as he was at bringing players through to the first team. Witness the way he schooled Omobamidele - even on the pitch after matches.  A truly class act of a manager......and how much money has he brought in by his superb coaching of players and increasing their value? Well over £100 million. And we sacked him.

I know Webber was the one who got him here in the first place, but I would have preferred Webber to go than Farke. There, I said it and we have just sacked probably the best long term manager we were ever going to get - and his tenure should have been a lot longer, given the circumstances.  Webber has sold out in trying to gamble his way to success this season, when he should have recognised that if we aren't good enough this season under Farke, so be it - and if one or two players were unhappy because they weren't being picked....stuff them, because their job is to fight their way to the team, not undermine the manager.

As you can tell, I'm still annoyed by what has transpired and the new manager better be a class act too, or we have thrown away the baby with the bath water.  The king has gone, long live the king, or whatever the saying is......but he had better be good!!

Come on Lakey you keep going over the same topic in different ways hoping to get a different answer. NCFC want to be in the Premier league us fans want to be in the premier league, in 48 games DF proved he was not capable of keeping NCFC in the premier league. You can look for excuses but his record is worse than any other manager during that time. We may not get another manager as humble as DF but we have to try something different. If the Premier league was about having the nicest manager we would be top but having a nice man in charge means nothing. It's a results business you are taking it too personally.

[Canaries north 151]

I appreciate your loyalty lakey but let's be honest, we have looked awful this season. Burnley we parked the bus, Brighton had chances and the chances we had were from terrible errors by them and Brentford who are ravaged by injuries and have lost the last 3 were all over us in the second half. We have a win, not a convincing win and against a team who lets be honest, at the start of the season we would have thought should be a certain win only for it to be a backs against the walls and hold on to the lead. The football has not been good enough and still wasn't on Saturday.

I'm still not sure who is to blame, Farke for not getting enough out of the squad or Webber for the recruitment that looks poor at the moment. Sack Webber and the recruitment would change but the only person who could go and affect the team was Farke. We might get worse and we might get better but keeping on doing the same could never be an option in my mind if we really wanted to stay up.

The thing that really surprised me was that we didn't have a new manager in the door on Monday. They must have decided at least a week ago and maybe even two that it was time for a change. If they didn't have the new manager sorted then why sack Farke. Have we fired a manager without knowing who the replacement would be? That would be reckless to me. 

[Crafty Canary 495]

The fact is is that DF was not performing at PL level and the club has made the right decision. We can only hope they make another correct decidion in whom yhey appoint as his successor.

[Mullet 293]

This will cheer you up Lakey, I used to listen to this when my girlfriend broke up with me. It didn't take too long before I realised she was a fat ugly b1tch anyway

Edited November 10, 2021 by Mullet

[priceyrice 123]

Lakey has gone from having blind optimism to being a clear troll, albeit a positive one. No idea why you all give him so much time of day!