The Board Must Be Held Accountable

[Samwam27 519]

If the decision was made after Chelsea, the announcement should also have followed

What followed was two more games, sandwiched between a media interview with Webber saying we dont make knee jeek decisions etc

If the decision was made after Chelsea why aagin not announce after Leeds loss.

The boards reaction throughout todays game suggests the decision had been made, but to wait until after the win, after Farkes media interview disrespects Farke. You cant now suggest they didnt announce before the game to avoid disruption for the team, cuz we'd lost 8 out of ten. Webber covering his **** but again not in glory

[City 2nd 191]

It’s very easy to criticise the timing of this sacking, but you have to look at the bigger picture. NCFC spent one of their highest ever amounts of £ on new players to assist with staying in the prem. Unfortunately, many of those cannot even get into the squad now, and are frozen out by a manager who had a reputation of doing so with other players. I can well remember many supporters applauding the likes of Leitner, Trybull, Drmic and others being in our squad, what happened? They were frozen out by our manager we all know thst. We have Placheta, Tzolis, Sorensen, Cantwell and others who it appears to be happening too again. Webber clearly states he spoke with the clubs senior players prior to making a sacking decision. What does one think they said? Should they be relegated again, their salaries are affected.  Several of these players cost sizable transfer fees, to be frozen out and not playing and with results going terribly wrong, it was apparent the two do not mix, and something had to give, and it was Farke. I for one am not surprised.

[Robert N. LiM 4,248]

5 minutes ago, Ian said:

I'm happy for you or Purple to rebut my post. The fact you're both embarrassingly trying to play the man rather than the ball makes me think it's not as easy as you both like to make out.

I'm all ears Robert. Please enlighten me?

Maybe tomorrow when everyone's calmed down a bit. Emotions are understandably running high tonight.

I wasn't trying to 'play the man'. Purple's post just made me laugh. But it was a bit insensitive of me and I apologise for that. All the best.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

14 minutes ago, ricardo said:

We have just gone back to doing what everyone elsr does as soon as they hit a bad patch. I thought wr had moved beyond this pointless knee jerk reaction. I was wrong.

I don't think it's knee jerk as, sadly, it's not 'a bad patch' is it?

Today is the first time we have beaten Premier League opponents in the last 18 months and we've had 22 goes at it, losing 19 of those games. Farke's record against top flight sides in not great, in fact of managers who have been in charge of more than 20 games since the top flight became the Premier League only 3 have a worse record.

I am grateful to Farke as he has achieved amazing things for the club, but if we are serious about establishing ourselves in the top flight we need  a manager that can win more than 4 games a season.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Iwans Big Toe

[Ian 1,129]

1 minute ago, City 2nd said:

It’s very easy to criticise the timing of this sacking, but you have to look at the bigger picture. NCFC spent one of their highest ever amounts of £ on new players to assist with staying in the prem. Unfortunately, many of those cannot even get into the squad now, and are frozen out by a manager who had a reputation of doing so with other players. I can well remember many supporters applauding the likes of Leitner, Trybull, Drmic and others being in our squad, what happened? They were frozen out by our manager we all know thst. We have Placheta, Tzolis, Sorensen, Cantwell and others who it appears to be happening too again. Webber clearly states he spoke with the clubs senior players prior to making a sacking decision. What does one think they said? Should they be relegated again, their salaries are affected.  Several of these players cost sizable transfer fees, to be frozen out and not playing and with results going terribly wrong, it was apparent the two do not mix, and something had to give, and it was Farke. I for one am not surprised.

Again, you're missing the point. 95% of what you state is pretty obvious, and I agree with. However, please do show where players Farke has "frozen out" have gone on to greater things and his judgement has been proven to be detrimental to the club

The timing is unjustifiable, the way it was handled is utterly disrespectful and massively undermines any confidence in "the model" that anybody has left. It is also at odds with D+M's apparent justification of "football for the fans", "doing the right thing", and any other vacuous crap they spout to make themselves look good.

[PurpleCanary 5,555]

17 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Indeed. As to the rest, posters cannot have it both ways. They wanted Farke gone, and he has been sacked, and at an obviously sensible time, just before an international break. Posters also complain that Smith and Jones are not ruthless enough, and now they object to them being ruthless.

To add, the only really significant question is whether they have a replacement head coach lined up, and if they do who it is.

[Ian 1,129]

5 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Maybe tomorrow when everyone's calmed down a bit. Emotions are understandably running high tonight.

I wasn't trying to 'play the man'. Purple's post just made me laugh. But it was a bit insensitive of me and I apologise for that. All the best.

You don't need to apologise. I'm not even slightly bothered - I don't post on here expecting people to agree with me and have no issue if people can prove me wrong. I might even change my view.

Emotions are running high because of the way this has been handled, not the decision that has been made. To be perfectly frank, to  constantly crow about how "the model" and continuity makes us a bit special and a bit different, but then to get rid of DF in exactly the sort of way you would expect Watford to makes us look like a bunch of disingenuous amateurs.

I hope I'm wrong, but I rather suspect DF is going to go onto greater things in his career than we are under the current stewardship.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Ian

[Indy 3,286]

It’s such a shame we can’t change our owners who are questionable at this level, if the manager gets sacked for not keeping us up with a championship side surely the owners should’ve replaced with ones who can invest? 😉

[Commonsense 619]

8 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

It’s very easy to criticise the timing of this sacking, but you have to look at the bigger picture. NCFC spent one of their highest ever amounts of £ on new players to assist with staying in the prem. Unfortunately, many of those cannot even get into the squad now, and are frozen out by a manager who had a reputation of doing so with other players. I can well remember many supporters applauding the likes of Leitner, Trybull, Drmic and others being in our squad, what happened? They were frozen out by our manager we all know thst. We have Placheta, Tzolis, Sorensen, Cantwell and others who it appears to be happening too again. Webber clearly states he spoke with the clubs senior players prior to making a sacking decision. What does one think they said? Should they be relegated again, their salaries are affected.  Several of these players cost sizable transfer fees, to be frozen out and not playing and with results going terribly wrong, it was apparent the two do not mix, and something had to give, and it was Farke. I for one am not surprised.

Could I ask where he clearly states this? What is your source?

[repman 634]

Considering his whole coaching staff have left too, it would have been madness to have sacked him before this game. Who would have taken training in the run up? Even if Webber decided Farke wasn't the man to go forward, he was still the best man available to us for this game today. The break now means we can bring a new coach in while the players won't be training,

[essex canary 492]

33 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Indeed. As to the rest, posters cannot have it both ways. They wanted Farke gone, and he has been sacked, and at an obviously sensible time, just before an international break. Posters also complain that Smith and Jones are not ruthless enough, and now they object to them being ruthless.

Robustness is good, ruthlessness is bad.

[Ian 1,129]

6 minutes ago, repman said:

Considering his whole coaching staff have left too, it would have been madness to have sacked him before this game. Who would have taken training in the run up?

Are you seriously trying to tell me it would be better to leave someone in place whose coaching methods you have decided are not a positive for the club, ahead of an absolutely critical away game against a relegation rival, because you don't have anybody else qualified and able to train a team for a few sessions? 

You don't think any other coaching staff at the club would be able to step up? Incidentally, how do any other clubs cope when they sack their managers outside of the international breaks?

IMO Webber et al. backed Farke publically during the week whilst conspiring to replace him, hoping we would get smashed today, and that it would be enough to shift the spotlight away from themselves. Crass, and amateur. No wonder they all looked like somebody had died when Pukki stuck that penalty away today.

[repman 634]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

Are you seriously trying to tell me it would be better to leave someone in place whose coaching methods you have decided are not a positive for the club, ahead of an absolutely critical away game against a relegation rival, because you don't have anybody else qualified and able to train a team for a few sessions? 

You don't think any other coaching staff at the club would be able to step up? Incidentally, how do any other clubs cope when they sack their managers outside of the international breaks?

IMO Webber et al. backed Farke publically during the week whilst conspiring to replace him, hoping we would get smashed today, and that it would be enough to shift the spotlight away from themselves. Crass, and amateur. No wonder they all looked like somebody had died when Pukki stuck that penalty away today.

It's not that they don't think his methods are a positive for the club, it's that they believe there is someone out there who would be a much greater positive. And no, I don't think anyone outside of the current first team coaching staff (all of whom have left) would have been capable of stepping up. Finally, the fact the decision was made before the games clearly indicates they had no care for what the result today, in fact all the win means is it makes it an ever so slightly easier job for whoever comes in.

[Mello Yello 2,282]

Or maybe the bigger picture is that the board of Directionless thought 'good timing' as it'll allow a couple o' weeks for the heat to die down.....as well as enabling us to install a replacement coach and co - and therefore give him the time to get used to the club, its staff.....and our top class training facilities....

Oops...and not forgetting the playing squad.....

Yeah I know it's the wicked workings of Pro football and that it's a demanding and cut-throat business (more importantly it's a results business), but I feel like on previous occasions and concerning previous managers slow to act and they've strung Daniel along for far too long when that axe should have been swung a whole lot sooner.....In my opinion the executioners and axe man could've also possibly been a bit more tactful and diplomatic.....which is what at the very least Daniel and the successes he brought is what the man deserved.....and rather than giving him a false stay of execution.....Thank you Daniel and your Staff, and good luck to you all for the future....

[Ian 1,129]

4 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Or maybe the bigger picture is that the board of Directionless thought 'good timing' as it'll allow a couple o' weeks for the heat to die down.....as well as enabling us to install a replacement coach and co - and therefore give him the time to get used to the club, its staff.....and our top class training facilities....

Oops...and not forgetting the playing squad.....

Yeah I know it's the wicked workings of Pro football and that it's a demanding and cut-throat business (more importantly it's a results business), but I feel like on previous occasions and concerning previous managers slow to act and they've strung Daniel along for far too long when that axe should have been swung a whole lot sooner.....In my opinion the executioners and axe man could've also possibly been a bit more tactful and diplomatic.....which is what at the very least Daniel and the successes he brought is what the man deserved.....and rather than giving him a false stay of execution.....Thank you Daniel and your Staff, and good luck to you all for the future....

I know you have a unique style Mello, but I also think you are quite perceptive in your opinions. Cynicism clearly at play tonight, and I am absolutely amazed at how many people will try and justify it because of where their support lies.

[Ian 1,129]

11 minutes ago, repman said:

It's not that they don't think his methods are a positive for the club, it's that they believe there is someone out there who would be a much greater positive. And no, I don't think anyone outside of the current first team coaching staff (all of whom have left) would have been capable of stepping up. Finally, the fact the decision was made before the games clearly indicates they had no care for what the result today, in fact all the win means is it makes it an ever so slightly easier job for whoever comes in.

So they think Daniel is great, but they think someone else is better? Bit like a married person having an affair really I guess - when you put it like that it makes perfect sense.

I absolutely agree that the fact the decision was made before the game today implies the owners thought we'd lose, or they didn't care about the result today. Following that logic, you could also suggest that the board don't really care about staying in the Premier League if they're so willing to write off one of the only fixtures you would have expected us to win this season, and instead care more about looking good in the eyes of our support. Doesn't that worry you?

[Duncan Edwards 2,224]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

So they think Daniel is great, but they think someone else is better? Bit like a married person having an affair really I guess - when you put it like that it makes perfect sense.

I absolutely agree that the fact the decision was made before the game today implies the owners thought we'd lose, or they didn't care about the result today. Following that logic, you could also suggest that the board don't really care about staying in the Premier League if they're so willing to write off one of the only fixtures you would have expected us to win this season, and instead care more about looking good in the eyes of our support. Doesn't that worry you?

They weren’t writing the fixture off, they wanted to win, of course they did.

They also want to stay up. They’ve made a decision that the most likely way they can achieve that is by changing the guy in charge.

Having Daniel in charge today still offered a better chance of getting the win than having nobody in charge. He did get the win. But that win didn’t and doesn’t alter the fact that they still think the best chance they have of staying up is by replacing him.

I understand that this might seem cold but it seems reasonable to think they treated today’s game and the remaining 27 games as separate thought processes. 

[Ian 1,129]

54 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I guess we just see it differently.

As I said, and admittedly this is very much "after the event" thinking. I think it is likely that the discussion was had post-Leeds, and that the decision was made that they'd look to make the change. Recruiting when there's a break in fixtures makes sense, there are no games to worry about and the focus can be 100% on what is a huge task. Make no mistake, firing Farke was the easy bit, finding a superior replacement is NOT going to be as simple as some appear to consider. It really isn't a case of "...couldn't do any worse". So, to that end, I guess the decision came down to whether they thought that we had a better chance of winning today with or without Farke? 

Perhaps. Maybe you're less cynical than me, but I think almost certainly it came down to how they could spin it in a more positive light.

If their decision to leave Farke in charge just for this game was vindicated, why did everybody in the executive seats look like Stuart had chronic flatulence when we went 2-0 up? Perhaps they realised they had dropped a massive **** by signing up the next coaching team whilst DF + co were still in place?

Let's be clear. I'm not upset at the decision, I'm upset at how it was handled, and more importantly, think it could be detrimental to our chances of survival this season.

[Duncan Edwards 2,224]

Just now, Ian said:

Perhaps. Maybe you're less cynical than me, but I think almost certainly it came down to how they could spin it in a more positive light.

If their decision to leave Farke in charge just for this game was vindicated, why did everybody in the executive seats look like Stuart had chronic flatulence when we went 2-0 up? Perhaps they realised they had dropped a massive **** by signing up the next coaching team whilst DF + co were still in place?

Let's be clear. I'm not upset at the decision, I'm upset at how it was handled, and more importantly, think it could be detrimental to our chances of survival this season.

I imagine they were pleased that we were winning while also not exactly being ****-a-hoop about having to tell a man that they’ve worked out extremely closely with for years that he was getting his cards!  

[PurpleCanary 5,555]

6 minutes ago, Ian said:

So they think Daniel is great, but they think someone else is better? Bit like a married person having an affair really I guess - when you put it like that it makes perfect sense.

I absolutely agree that the fact the decision was made before the game today implies the owners thought we'd lose, or they didn't care about the result today. Following that logic, you could also suggest that the board don't really care about staying in the Premier League if they're so willing to write off one of the only fixtures you would have expected us to win this season, and instead care more about looking good in the eyes of our support. Doesn't that worry you?

I am happy to reply at greater length if you want when I have time, but there is no logic at all to that supposed suggested logic. There is a much simpler and logical explanation, which others have put forward, backed factually by the sacking not just of Farke but of his backroom staff.

Which is that Webber/the directors have someone in mind as a replacement who would of course demand to being in their own staff, and that only now, or recently, have they agreed a basic deal with that someone. And the international break is the best time to make the switch. Which it is.

[king canary 7,580]

It definitely feels a touch cold and ruthless which isn't what we always associate with Norwich but as others say thats often been used against the owners so not fair to complain about the opposite too. 

My gut instict is it might have been kinder to either let him go last week and put a caretaker in or to at least wait until Monday. However in the grand scheme of things does an extra 36 hours really make that much difference? 

Overall, if Webber and co hire someone who keeps us up, the timing of this decision will largely be a forgotten footnote. Get it wrong though and it could end up with people seeing Webber as floundering and sacking Farke to save his own skin. 

As Parma mentioned on a previous thread, history will be written by the winners. 

[Capt. Pants 4,203]

Had we lost then the season would have been over and wouldn't had mattered who we had in charge.

I think it's clear we cannot afford to be relegated now, too much invested, a chance of staying up we must at least try.

Hopefully this means Webber will leave should we fail as he is much to blame as Farke.

[Ian 1,129]

Just now, PurpleCanary said:

I am happy to reply at greater length if you want when I have time, but there is no logic at all to that supposed suggested logic. There is a much simpler and logical explanation, which others have put forward, backed factually by the sacking not just of Farke but of his backroom staff.

Which is that Webber/the directors have someone in mind as a replacement who would of course demand to being in their own staff, and that only now, or recently, have they agreed a basic deal with that someone. And the international break is the best time to make the switch. Which it is.

Other than you seem think to think strategically they made the right decision from a sporting level to leave DF and team in place, I don't feel this contradicts any of my post? In fact, I think what you've surmised is extremely likely and would be surprised if we don't see an appointment very early next week. Indeed, I suggested myself that the actions imply the new man is in place.

Equally, that doesn't mean the cynical way this was handled was acceptable does it? Particularly by a board who frequently claim that the self-funding model is good for football, foreign investment is particularly bad, and that the most important thing is operating in "the right way". My point is simply that I think this was timed to try and draw any ire away from the board, and has backfired spectacularly.

Taking any emotion out of it, had they let DF go after the Chelsea or Leeds games I don't suspect many people (either fans or media) would consider it anything other than justifiable. By leaving him in charge for another fortnight they have somehow managed to not only miss an open goal in a fashion that even Josh Sargeant would be proud of, but also put far greater scrutiny on the appointment they are likely to make in the near future.

I think Webber and Smith are more than clever enough to realise this, which probably accounts for the stony faces in the executive seats when their beloved Norwich City went 2-0 up today.

[PurpleCanary 5,555]

2 minutes ago, Ian said:

Other than you seem think to think strategically they made the right decision from a sporting level to leave DF and team in place, I don't feel this contradicts any of my post? In fact, I think what you've surmised is extremely likely and would be surprised if we don't see an appointment very early next week. Indeed, I suggested myself that the actions imply the new man is in place.

Equally, that doesn't mean the cynical way this was handled was acceptable does it? Particularly by a board who frequently claim that the self-funding model is good for football, foreign investment is particularly bad, and that the most important thing is operating in "the right way". My point is simply that I think this was timed to try and draw any ire away from the board, and has backfired spectacularly.

Taking any emotion out of it, had they let DF go after the Chelsea or Leeds games I don't suspect many people (either fans or media) would consider it anything other than justifiable. By leaving him in charge for another fortnight they have somehow managed to not only miss an open goal in a fashion that even Josh Sargeant would be proud of, but also put far greater scrutiny on the appointment they are likely to make in the near future.

I think Webber and Smith are more than clever enough to realise this, which probably accounts for the stony faces in the executive seats when their beloved Norwich City went 2-0 up today.

You are investing it with a cynicism I simply don't see backed up by any facts.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Ian said:

 yet when the chips were down, they sought to leave Farke in charge, hoping a loss today would turns the fans and justify their decision.

Have to say, I'd not considered this angle at all.

It is definitely possible.

But could it also be possible that Farke had already been told that he was losing his job before the Brentford game? 

[Ian 1,129]

Just now, PurpleCanary said:

You are investing it with a cynicism I simply don't see backed up by any facts.

So you think the board acted in an entirely selfless fashion this week/today?

[Ian 1,129]

7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Have to say, I'd not considered this angle at all.

It is definitely possible.

But could it also be possible that Farke had already been told that he was losing his job before the Brentford game? 

I believe the Athletic reported he had no idea until he had completed his post-match interviews. I haven't verified this, but it would make a great deal of sense if you look at how the Pinkun reported it post match.

Clearly the board had written off today's game. I am surprised to see so many people I thought rational and logical posters actually becoming board sycophants by trying to justify this sorry debacle about waiting for the best moment, ensuring continuity, and giving us the best chance of results.

If Farke and team are no longer the people for the job, why leave them in place for 2 vital games against relegation rivals (almost 6% of the season)?! If he's no longer the appropriate figure head of Norwich City, it makes no sense whatsoever to leave him in the top job where he can talk about our future plans to the media and coach the players without restriction.

A club that has succession plans in place would almost certainly have contingency in place with regards from U23 or other coaching staff IMO, so I can only think that the club were keeping DF hanging on whilst hoping for a loss today to help ease their decision.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Ian

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

12 minutes ago, Ian said:

I believe the Athletic reported he had no idea until he had completed his post-match interviews. I haven't verified this, but it would make a great deal of sense if you look at how the Pinkun reported it post match.

Clearly the board had written off today's game. I am surprised to see so many people I thought rational and logical posters actually becoming board sycophants by trying to justify this sorry debacle about waiting for the best moment, ensuring continuity, and giving us the best chance of results.

If Farke and team are no longer the people for the job, why leave them in place for 2 vital games against relegation rivals (almost 6% of the season)?! If he's no longer the appropriate figure head of Norwich City, it makes no sense whatsoever to leave him in the top job where he can talk about our future plans to the media and coach the players without restriction.

A club that has succession plans in place would almost certainly have contingency in place with regards from U23 or other coaching staff IMO, so I can only think that the club were keeping DF hanging on whilst hoping for a loss today to help ease their decision.

Agreed, should have been Stuart Weaver as caretaker (youth development chap who has Pro license)

[PurpleCanary 5,555]

34 minutes ago, Ian said:

So you think the board acted in an entirely selfless fashion this week/today?

You keep posting false alternatives. As it happens I think the likeliest explanation for how this played out has been provided by the local journalist Chris West.

That the directors made the decision earlier this week but held off from announcing it so as not to disrupt Farke's preparations for the Brentford game. Which explains why,  if it is the case, that  the directors looked glum as the match progressed today.

it wasn't that a win upset their plans. it was they had a very human feeling that they were going to have to break bad news to a very nice man.

Edited November 6, 2021 by PurpleCanary

[Ian 1,129]

10 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

You keep posting false alternatives. As it happens I think the likeliest explanation for how this played out has been provided by the local journalist Chris West.

That the directors made the decision earlier this week but held off from announcing it so as not to disrupt Farke's preparations for the Brentford game. Which explains why,  if it is the case, that  the directors looked glum as the match progressed today.

it wasn't that a win upset their plans. it was they had a very human feeling that they were going to have to break bad news to a very nice man.

Wow, and I've been accused of being naive tonight. I would be very surprised had a competent Premiership club not briefed certain local journalists with favourable stories. Do you know Delia personally at all?

Let's say I accept your justification for keeping him in post, and that the club genuinely felt him preparing the team was vital for a Brentford win. Doesn't really explain why they would need him to do his post-match interviews though would it? MOTD:

"There's a lot of fight at the club, don't write us off."