Where’s Cantwell ?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

15 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Yes indeed they have fallen out, not injured or anything else as I’ve said in previous posts. If I could name my source I would but I would be getting somebody into trouble if I did

Just listening to what Farke is saying, it sounds like he wants 2 weeks solid training with the right application rather than it being an injury issue right now, hence why he might play for the U23’s later tonight.

[C.I.D 302]

Head Coach v Player ? Hmmm ........can't begin to imagine who's going to win on that one then 😔

[kenfoggo 247]

To have a player of Cantwell’s talent consigned to “Siberia” / “Naughty Step” and not be considered for first team selection makes me want to query the Head Coach’s man-management skills. 
Something is not right at Carrow Road in the team spirit department.

[curious yellow 184]

It wouldn't look good to get rid of a club legend like Holt for telling the truth, whilst keeping Farke who is continually lying to us. 

They did get rid of Huckerby and kept the bloke who joined Ipswich. 

Farke should put the best interests of the club before his personal feuds. 

[Google Bot 3,275]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

At least he can try out his wrestling moves, do a big slam dunk.

I that similar to this?

[Jim Smith 2,317]

21 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Just listening to what Farke is saying, it sounds like he wants 2 weeks solid training with the right application rather than it being an injury issue right now, hence why he might play for the U23’s later tonight.

This is just poor management impacting detrimentally on the squad/club. Whatever the issue was/is Webber and Farkes job is to resolve it without us losing an important player for 2 months whilst he is fit. Not to make it worse by creating some sort of stand off. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

10 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

It wouldn't look good to get rid of a club legend like Holt for telling the truth, whilst keeping Farke who is continually lying to us. 

They did get rid of Huckerby and kept the bloke who joined Ipswich. 

Farke should put the best interests of the club before his personal feuds. 

As much as I want to see Cantwell back, I doubt it’s because of ‘personal feuds’, some coaches are just very strict when it comes to discipline just as is quite normal in many other working environments. Its nothing new. It’s pretty clear he’s not the kind of guy to let someone get ahead of themselves, and rightly so in my opinion. Have always been a defender of Todd but I’m starting to have my doubts about his attitude behind the scenes. 

Take a look at Oliviera. Had about 47 clubs before he joined us and had a bit of a reputation. As did Leitner - he too had history of being high maintenance but we took a gamble and luckily got some fine moments out of him. Drmic didn’t cover himself in glory with some of his comments either. There is a common denominator there - bad attitude. Only one man in the right there💡 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

8 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

This is just poor management impacting detrimentally on the squad/club. Whatever the issue was/is Webber and Farkes job is to resolve it without us losing an important player for 2 months whilst he is fit. Not to make it worse by creating some sort of stand off. 

Unfortunately, and whereas I don’t disagree that it’s the bosses job to resolve it (I’m in full agreement), I just think without knowing the full details, taking the stance that he just walks back into the team after a quick chat with Farke or whatever, it’s clearly not as simple as that - without knowing the score I’m not sure how you can label it poor management just on a hunch though. Farke’s laid it out plain and clear - complete 2 weeks of committed training (without missing turning up to sessions). Nearly all of us want to see Todd back, make no mistake, I think we’re missing him massively personally, but at the same time, it would be ridiculous to think Farke’s going to start bowing down to the players. The day that happens is the day we’d be really f***ed. There has to be structure, and a players footballing ability should not have a bearing on whether that applies to them or not.

[curious yellow 184]

8 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

As much as I want to see Cantwell back, I doubt it’s because of ‘personal feuds’, some coaches are just very strict when it comes to discipline just as is quite normal in many other working environments. Its nothing new. It’s pretty clear he’s not the kind of guy to let someone get ahead of themselves, and rightly so in my opinion. Have always been a defender of Todd but I’m starting to have my doubts about his attitude behind the scenes. 

Take a look at Oliviera. Had about 47 clubs before he joined us and had a bit of a reputation. As did Leitner - he too had history of being high maintenance but we took a gamble and luckily got some fine moments out of him. Drmic didn’t cover himself in glory with some of his comments either. There is a common denominator there - bad attitude. Only one man in the right there💡 

Too many have been in this situation and the club suffers. Bad behaviour and attitude is implied but we should be able to get around it. At worst his attitude is as bad as Buendia's but I don't think Emi would have taken kindly to turning up for the U23s

Putting a £40M price tag on him-more than Buendia - wasn't fair. Webber said it was because he was such an important player for us. I can understand Todd being frustrated He's a popular member of the squad so it could be having an effect on the likes of Teemu and Max. 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

36 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

As much as I want to see Cantwell back, I doubt it’s because of ‘personal feuds’, some coaches are just very strict when it comes to discipline just as is quite normal in many other working environments. Its nothing new. It’s pretty clear he’s not the kind of guy to let someone get ahead of themselves, and rightly so in my opinion. Have always been a defender of Todd but I’m starting to have my doubts about his attitude behind the scenes. 

Take a look at Oliviera. Had about 47 clubs before he joined us and had a bit of a reputation. As did Leitner - he too had history of being high maintenance but we took a gamble and luckily got some fine moments out of him. Drmic didn’t cover himself in glory with some of his comments either. There is a common denominator there - bad attitude. Only one man in the right there💡 

I'm moving in the opposite direction to you. I have had a serious downer on Cantwell about this, but I'm starting to wonder if Farke isn't at least 50% of the problem. For me the team selection last weekend - with both our LBs left out in favour of a teenage CB for no discernible reason - really made me wonder if Farke has taken umbrage with half a dozen of the squad who are willing to speak out and question his decisions. He has form - as you say, Leitner, who proved to be as stubborn as Farke, but I still think we wasted him totally in our last PL campaign. Farke also has favourites - McLean being one of them: unlike most others, straight back into the team when he recovers from injury even though he could hardly be called essential to what we do in the way that Pukki is.

It's very likely there will be no Cantwell this weekend, no Tzolis until at least the 70th minute, probably no Gilmour and no Gia, but McLean will be there, as will Sargent, whatever formation we eventually play.

Edited November 5, 2021 by canarybubbles

[Alex Moss 2,165]

5 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

Too many have been in this situation and the club suffers. Bad behaviour and attitude is implied but we should be able to get around it. At worst his attitude is as bad as Buendia's but I don't think Emi would have taken kindly to turning up for the U23s

Putting a £40M price tag on him-more than Buendia - wasn't fair. Webber said it was because he was such an important player for us. I can understand Todd being frustrated He's a popular member of the squad so it could be having an effect on the likes of Teemu and Max. 

Some fair comments, but ‘bad attitude’ was in the public domain for all to see regarding both Oliviera and Leitner before we signed them. I guess with Leitner we felt we could knock this out of him but the truth is that it’s hard to change a leopards spots. Think the only reason Teemu is suffering is more likely to do with the style of play we’ve deployed in some games, but have not got any question marks over Max.

Regarding the Under 23’s, if Todd is too big to use a couple of U23’s games to regain some fitness and a chance to shine, then I don’t know what to say. All I know is I hope to see him back following the international break.

[Duncan Edwards 2,231]

8 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I'm moving in the opposite direction to you. I have had a serious downer on Cantwell about this, but I'm starting to wonder if Farke isn't at least 50% of the problem. For me the team selection last weekend - with both our LBs left out in favour of a teenage CB for no discernible reason - really made me wonder if Farke has taken umbrage with half a dozen of the squad who are willing to speak out and question his decisions. He has form - as you say, Leitner, who proved to be as stubborn as Farke, but I still think we wasted him totally in our last PL campaign. Farke also has favourites - McLean being one of them: unlike most others, straight back into the team when he recovers from injury even though he could hardly be called essential to what we do in the way that Pukki is.

It's very likely there will be no Cantwell this weekend, no Tzolis until at least the 70th minute, probably no Gilmour and no Gia, but McLean will be there, as will Sargent, whatever formation we eventually play.

I questioned the selection of Omabamidele too, but once the game was underway I understood it more. It was quickly apparent that Leeds were going to send as much through Raphinha as they could. While DG and BW offer us more as an attacking threat, I think AO is clearly the superior defender and given how much time the player in that position was going to spend one-on-one defending, I can see why he chose him.

I actually think that he did pretty well for the most part, ok, he got sat down for the opening goal but he made some good interceptions and challenges and got away with a fairly obvious block when he (Raphinha) would have been away. 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

15 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I questioned the selection of Omabamidele too, but once the game was underway I understood it more. It was quickly apparent that Leeds were going to send as much through Raphinha as they could. While DG and BW offer us more as an attacking threat, I think AO is clearly the superior defender and given how much time the player in that position was going to spend one-on-one defending, I can see why he chose him.

I actually think that he did pretty well for the most part, ok, he got sat down for the opening goal but he made some good interceptions and challenges and got away with a fairly obvious block when he (Raphinha) would have been away. 

I agree that Omobamidele did well - I am not attacking his performance at all. It just seemed a strange decision that could have gone very badly wrong, hitting Omo's confidence, so if you are correct about Farke's reasoning (and you may well be), it was a big risk. Add to that all the other questionable stuff - McLean being undroppable, Sargent getting so much opportunity compared to Tzolis despite his obvious shortcomings, the disappearance of Gilmour, the dramarama of Cantwell - and I begin to wonder about other possible reasons for the selection.

EDIT: I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because a divided squad is poison.

Edited November 5, 2021 by canarybubbles

[canarycat 27]

Is it not obvious what is happening here. Isn't getting the new deal he wants so he and club are playing hardball with each other. if no deal is agreed we need to sell in January so are probably protecting there investment.

[Duncan Edwards 2,231]

2 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I agree that Omobamidele did well - I am not attacking his performance at all. It just seemed a strange decision that could have gone very badly wrong, hitting Omo's confidence, so if you are correct about Farke's reasoning (and you may well be), it was a big risk. Add to that all the other questionable stuff - McLean being undroppable, Sargent getting so much opportunity compared to Tzolis despite his obvious shortcomings, the disappearance of Gilmour, the dramarama of Cantwell - and I begin to wonder about other possible reasons for the selection.

EDIT: I sincerely hope I'm wrong, because a divided squad is poison.

I mean, it could have gone wrong but it isn't the first time Farke has made seemingly big, brave calls with a youngster. He chucked Aarons in at the deep end in an away derby after all. With McLean and Sargent, I don't know, my hunch is it's about the amount of ground they cover and the amount of workload they take off others. I can understand why there's a train of thought that perhaps technically superior players might mean less work to do but I can also see the point that while we might enjoy 60%+ possession regularly in the Championship, it's obvious we'll spend far less time in possession against better opposition and that's why we need those "legs". As with so many things, I guess it's about balance and with 2 points and 3 goals it's clear we haven't found it yet. 

As for Tzolis, we were warned not to expect too much, too soon and I expect he'll feature more as the season (and he) develops. Gilmour is a victim of the formation, it's hard to see where he fits unless we change system because he doesn't have the energy or physicality for what we have been doing. He's clearly talented though, but we need to find a way of getting him on the ball in areas he can impact the game with his passing ability.

Cantwell? I don't know. Something's up, clearly. Until whatever it is is resolved... Let's hope whatever it is DOES get sorted because we can barely afford to have a player of his talent anywhere but the matchday squad.

I'm just guessing with all that, but, with enforced changes again, the selection tomorrow will be interesting. Rupp, anyone?😐

 

[Pugin 601]

26 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

 

I actually think that he did pretty well for the most part, ok, he got sat down for the opening goal but he made some good interceptions and challenges and got away with a fairly obvious block when he (Raphinha) would have been away. 

The decision not to penalise Andrew for that block was extraordinary :). I was in the S Stand and it was blatant.

To me, Leeds' plan was to isolate Raphinha on Onabamidele. AO was excellent, and his performance will have alerted the football world to his excellence.

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

2 minutes ago, canarycat said:

Is it not obvious what is happening here. Isn't getting the new deal he wants so he and club are playing hardball with each other. if no deal is agreed we need to sell in January so are probably protecting there investment.

I thought it was obvious that he didn't want a new and it was obvious that he wanted a move to another club. Or is it obvious that he's had some injury problems and hasn't consistently trained or played. Then again it's probably obvious that he has fallen out with the club. Obviously there may be another explanation, may be something that no one else has thought.

Whatever it is it will be obvious once the truth come out and both sides get to tell their side of the story.

 

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, curious yellow said:

It wouldn't look good to get rid of a club legend like Holt for telling the truth, whilst keeping Farke who is continually lying to us. 

They did get rid of Huckerby and kept the bloke who joined Ipswich. 

Farke should put the best interests of the club before his personal feuds. 

As much as I agree that it would be a disgrace if they got rid of Holt (similar to that time Roeder had Neil Adams sacked)..

... and I think Chris Reeve should be put in the stocks and pelted with tomatoes for being a snitch if that happens.

Lets be real RE Huckerby, he's never struck me as the most professional of people, his banter on twitter is often quite close to the line, if not slightly over it (particularly the gender stereotypes / jokes about his missus and kitchens etc), and when he was coaching at Norwich he'd be having 'banter' with his players on twitter as well. 

He was let go as there were concerns about a lack of discipline in the U18s, and as likeable as Hucks would have been to his players etc, that could hardly have been a huge surprise. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

5 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

So it could be DF who has fallen out with Todd. We don't know. If Todd has said he doesn't want to play for us anymore then yes stick him in the U23s. But if he is miffed at his position in the team, the tactics or team mates, isn't he allowed to voice his opinion?

No. Todd is subordinate to the manager. His job is to do what the manager asks of him. If he objects to what the manager asks of him then it's Todd's problem. 

But, as others have stated, we have no idea of the reasons behind Todd's exclusion so this is all hypothetical.

Edited November 5, 2021 by littleyellowbirdie

[TheBaldOne66 682]

30 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I mean, it could have gone wrong but it isn't the first time Farke has made seemingly big, brave calls with a youngster. He chucked Aarons in at the deep end in an away derby after all. With McLean and Sargent, I don't know, my hunch is it's about the amount of ground they cover and the amount of workload they take off others. I can understand why there's a train of thought that perhaps technically superior players might mean less work to do but I can also see the point that while we might enjoy 60%+ possession regularly in the Championship, it's obvious we'll spend far less time in possession against better opposition and that's why we need those "legs". As with so many things, I guess it's about balance and with 2 points and 3 goals it's clear we haven't found it yet. 

As for Tzolis, we were warned not to expect too much, too soon and I expect he'll feature more as the season (and he) develops. Gilmour is a victim of the formation, it's hard to see where he fits unless we change system because he doesn't have the energy or physicality for what we have been doing. He's clearly talented though, but we need to find a way of getting him on the ball in areas he can impact the game with his passing ability.

Cantwell? I don't know. Something's up, clearly. Until whatever it is is resolved... Let's hope whatever it is DOES get sorted because we can barely afford to have a player of his talent anywhere but the matchday squad.

I'm just guessing with all that, but, with enforced changes again, the selection tomorrow will be interesting. Rupp, anyone?😐

 

How the hell is Tzolis going to develop when he gets splinters in his backside every week? He cannot develop without playing games!!!

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

4 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

How the hell is Tzolis going to develop when he gets splinters in his backside every week? He cannot develop without playing games!!!

Isn't it obvious?

 

[Duncan Edwards 2,231]

Just now, TheBaldOne66 said:

How the hell is Tzolis going to develop when he gets splinters in his backside every week? He cannot develop without playing games!!!

Players do not only develop through playing games. If they did then I hate to think of the amount of money we're wasting on coaches at all levels, statistical analysts, dieticians etc etc. It was explained that he was raw when we signed him and that they believed he had the potential to be (I think they used this term) world class. As I said, I think as the season goes on, we'll see him integrate more and get more minutes. 

They will be working on fine tuning all aspects of his game and once they're happy that he has developed to a level in which he can start; be that mentally, physically, in terms of discipline to fulfil the designated role or whatever, I'm sure he'll get his chance. As I've already mentioned, Farke isn't scared to chuck a player in if he thinks they're ready; see Omabamidele and Aarons. To that end, if he isn't starting, then it is surely reasonable to trust Farke's judgment? 

Maybe he'll play tomorrow?

[Robert Barnes 19]

2 hours ago, kenfoggo said:

To have a player of Cantwell’s talent consigned to “Siberia” / “Naughty Step” and not be considered for first team selection makes me want to query the Head Coach’s man-management skills. 
Something is not right at Carrow Road in the team spirit department.

So what you are saying,is let him play even if he shows up late or not show for training just because he’s  cantwell
You are telling me if you owned a company and had an employee that was always late or not showing up for work or had attitude problems you would keep him. Don’t think so

[kenfoggo 247]

Robert, would you sack a valued employee or would you try to get him to do the job by training him, or would you suspend him until his attitude improves thus robbing your endeavours of a talent? There has to be some kind of man management skill set employed to get what you want out of your team.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 hour ago, canarycat said:

Is it not obvious what is happening here. Isn't getting the new deal he wants so he and club are playing hardball with each other. if no deal is agreed we need to sell in January so are probably protecting there investment.

Get a Lot more for Cantwell if he was Performing in the PL

 

[Robert Barnes 19]

52 minutes ago, kenfoggo said:

Robert, would you sack a valued employee or would you try to get him to do the job by training him, or would you suspend him until his attitude improves thus robbing your endeavours of a talent? There has to be some kind of man management skill set employed to get what you want out of your team.

Yes seems like this has been going on for a while with no resolve what you said sounds like farke has made his mind up just not to play him, Don’t you think they have sat down and discussed this. I personally think Cantwell is just not doing what Farke is asking of him 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Robert Barnes
Addition

[curious yellow 184]

1 hour ago, Alex Moss said:

Some fair comments, but ‘bad attitude’ was in the public domain for all to see regarding both Oliviera and Leitner before we signed them. I guess with Leitner we felt we could knock this out of him but the truth is that it’s hard to change a leopards spots. Think the only reason Teemu is suffering is more likely to do with the style of play we’ve deployed in some games, but have not got any question marks over Max.

Regarding the Under 23’s, if Todd is too big to use a couple of U23’s games to regain some fitness and a chance to shine, then I don’t know what to say. All I know is I hope to see him back following the international break.

Let's hope so, if not we need to know the truth. What I mean is that by turning up for the U23s his attitude can't be that bad. I don't remember any problem with Leitner, I know Oliveira didn’t turn up for training because of the snow but all the Germans were there on time. I do remember Leitner coming on for the second half against Liverpool and completely changing things. Sad to think that was one of his last games and his exclusion coincided with the start of the decline that season. Farke gave the reason as not showing enough in training. It is the manager's job to get the best out of the players he has available. 

 

 

[mannings bandy legs 387]

Playing for the U23's 2nite.

[TheBaldOne66 682]

4 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I questioned the selection of Omabamidele too, but once the game was underway I understood it more. It was quickly apparent that Leeds were going to send as much through Raphinha as they could. While DG and BW offer us more as an attacking threat, I think AO is clearly the superior defender and given how much time the player in that position was going to spend one-on-one defending, I can see why he chose him.

I actually think that he did pretty well for the most part, ok, he got sat down for the opening goal but he made some good interceptions and challenges and got away with a fairly obvious block when he (Raphinha) would have been away. 

In the position we are in, we can’t afford to see if he develops, we need players that can perform week in week out at this level. And, if he doesn’t develop then that’s 10 million spunked away yet again! Even though we were told that wouldn’t happen under Webber. 

[TheBaldOne66 682]

I quoted the wrong post there Duncan, my mistake. 
 

We can’t afford to wait to see if Tzolis, Sargent etc develop we need players who can do the business at this level, not players who may develop, and if that’s the case how long do we wait for said development? 
 

Webber criticised his predecessor on wasting money and at 10 million if these players don’t develop then he’s wasted more than they did