We only owed Farke a shot at this league...

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think there were plenty of threads wanting Farke out to be fair to TvB, although he did go slightly early on this one!

This was 3 days before he was actually sacked, or 3 days before our Brentford victory to put it another way.

There was a poll which Nutty Nigel bumped from around this time where about 80% of the people on this forum called for Farke to be sacked.

The thing is, I've never denied calling for Farke to be sacked, so I'm not really sure what point LYB is trying to make. Does he even know?

 

Edited January 21, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[hogesar 9,618]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

This was 3 days before he was actually sacked, or 3 days before our Brentford victory to put it another way.

There was a poll which Nutty Nigel bumped from around this time where about 80% of the people on this forum called for Farke to be sacked.

The thing is, I've never denied calling for Farke to be sacked, so I'm not really sure what point LYB is trying to make. Does he even know?

 

Oh wow, was it really only 3 days? Apologies I misread something and thought you'd posted this 4 games into the season!

I dont know what his point is right now, I dont really get it. I defended Smith against a lot of the stuff on here but I was quite clearly wrong when you look at the transformation in performances in such a short time from Wagner. There's things I think didn't help Smith that were a little out of his control but that's not the overall point. LYB probably needs to accept that Smith was, ultimately, a dreadful appointment. Even if the logic behind the appointment in the first place wasn't wrong (in my opinion).

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

32 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Oh wow, was it really only 3 days? Apologies I misread something and thought you'd posted this 4 games into the season!

I dont know what his point is right now, I dont really get it. I defended Smith against a lot of the stuff on here but I was quite clearly wrong when you look at the transformation in performances in such a short time from Wagner. There's things I think didn't help Smith that were a little out of his control but that's not the overall point. LYB probably needs to accept that Smith was, ultimately, a dreadful appointment. Even if the logic behind the appointment in the first place wasn't wrong (in my opinion).

Jesus H Christ, I'm genuinely amazed that someone as obviously smart as yourself still hasn't got that my general point is not specifically in defense of Smith, but the ridiculously OTT and abusive attitude to all of them when the chips are down. Farke was useless in the eyes of many weeks before he actually went, but you'll note my comments up there defending him.

But I moved on and I backed Smith until the club made a decision knowing what other options we had. And now I've moved on to support Wagner, who was my first choice of the names mentioned.

What I'm trying to say is, if people go to games and consider themselves supporters, they should support the club in a game until the final whistle whoever's in charge. If they don't like the manager, picket Carrow Road on non-game days, but on a game day, support the damned players and don't try to 'win' sack the manager arguments to make yourself feel important.

A lot of the people patting themselves on the back because Wagner's a success are mostly the same people looking for someone else to blame after Farke was sacked without the result everyone hoped for.

Edited January 21, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[hogesar 9,618]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Jesus H Christ, I'm genuinely amazed that someone as obviously smart as yourself still hasn't got that my general point is not specifically in defense of Smith, but the ridiculously OTT and abusive attitude to all of them when the chips are down. Farke was useless in the eyes of many weeks before he actually went, but you'll note my comments up there defending him.

But I moved on and I backed Smith until the club made a decision knowing what other options we had. And now I've moved on to support Wagner, who was my first choice of the names mentioned.

What I'm trying to say is, if people go to games and consider themselves supporters, they should support the club in a game until the final whistle whoever's in charge. If they don't like the manager, picket Carrow Road on non-game days, but on a game day, support the damned players and don't try to 'win' sack the manager arguments to make yourself feel important.

I dont disagree mate, I was quite keen to stress on here during Smiths tenure that the atmosphere didn't help matters. But it's not exclusive to this club and I don't think it's anything you can do anything about. Nathan Jones at Southampton got abuse from their fans 2 games into his new tenure, for example. Smith didn't get that for the entire Prem season, for comparison. At Southampton with similar performance the fans would have on evidence turned by March that Prem season at best.

So whilst I agree with your general point. I just don't think it's realistic and once a fan base becomes "disillusioned" - whatever the rationale - its really hard to turn. It can be done, but it's rare. Unfortunately what happened was a dreadful run of form rather than a fan-improving set of performances and results.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

Just now, hogesar said:

I dont disagree mate, I was quite keen to stress on here during Smiths tenure that the atmosphere didn't help matters. But it's not exclusive to this club and I don't think it's anything you can do anything about. Nathan Jones at Southampton got abuse from their fans 2 games into his new tenure, for example. Smith didn't get that for the entire Prem season, for comparison. At Southampton with similar performance the fans would have on evidence turned by March that Prem season at best.

So whilst I agree with your general point. I just don't think it's realistic and once a fan base becomes "disillusioned" - whatever the rationale - its really hard to turn. It can be done, but it's rare. Unfortunately what happened was a dreadful run of form rather than a fan-improving set of performances and results.

You're right, it's not exclusive, but for a distant supporter like myself online is pretty much the only interaction and insight you get from people who are actually at games, and it is so f**king boring to come here looking for thoughts about the games just to be confronted by piles and piles of drivel about the manager's waistline, his cup of tea, or what he said wrong in the presser.

[canarydan23 4,060]

18 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Farke was useless in the eyes of many weeks before he actually went, but you'll note my comments up there defending him.

And yet now you say he was useless in the Prem, could never keep a team in the Prem and sacking him for Smith was right.

How odd.

[Petriix 2,834]

I can't be the only one who wanted to keep Farke indefinitely because I appreciated that he brought something unique and positive to the club that I'd never experienced before. I didn't care about getting relegated if it meant beating Man City or Pukki's nipple being offside against Spurs.

I could accept the short term failure for the overall excitement. Getting 97 points in the Championship is far better than being a lower mid-table Premier League team. 

I could accept that there wasn't a manager in the world who could have kept that squad up without Skipp and Buendia. My support of the club goes deeper than thinking we should be better than we are.

And I can't be the only one who knows that such connections are few and far between. Watching the end of the Lambert era and seeing what an odious pr!ck he was then experiencing the sheer class of Farke in comparison - that wink... 

Farke was given a 4 year contract just weeks before his dismissal. I was under the impression that we were committed for the long term. I can't be the only one who didn't lose the belief in just 10 games.

And I can't be the only one who was dismayed by Smith's management in comparison. Not simply because he wasn't Farke, but because he didn't get the club, didn't build on the groundwork, didn't make us better in any way.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

And yet now you say he was useless in the Prem, could never keep a team in the Prem and sacking him for Smith was right.

How odd.

Actually no. What I did was respect that those who actually make the decisions understand a lot more than I do and have all of the data at their fingertips, including viable replacements.

The decision to sack Farke was a clear indication that the club's board clearly wasn't satisfied to keep yoyoing and wanted to try and survive which is fair enough. Even though I was in Farke's corner, I respected that and could see the merits of Smith for a club like us, clearly believing he was a good backstop for the championship if he didn't pull off a miracle and keep us up.

One full season in the Premier League and a quarter of a season really should conclusively prove that Farke was not up to the job. Smith's history getting a club promoted and then keeping them up is enough to demonstrate he might keep us up and might be able to get us back up again. He failed to pull off the miracle of keeping us up, but for the bulk of the first half of this season he had us well in the chase for promotion. But during all that time you still had idiots on here more interested in Smith's waistline and determined to pick holes instead of look for positives while the results were good.

When results turned bad for long enough, the club acted with a good alternative on the cards, and that's fair enough, but a lot of those criticising Smith had no idea what the alternatives would be and started long before results turned bad.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

4 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I can't be the only one who wanted to keep Farke indefinitely because I appreciated that he brought something unique and positive to the club that I'd never experienced before. I didn't care about getting relegated if it meant beating Man City or Pukki's nipple being offside against Spurs.

I could accept the short term failure for the overall excitement. Getting 97 points in the Championship is far better than being a lower mid-table Premier League team. 

I could accept that there wasn't a manager in the world who could have kept that squad up without Skipp and Buendia. My support of the club goes deeper than thinking we should be better than we are.

And I can't be the only one who knows that such connections are few and far between. Watching the end of the Lambert era and seeing what an odious pr!ck he was then experiencing the sheer class of Farke in comparison - that wink... 

Farke was given a 4 year contract just weeks before his dismissal. I was under the impression that we were committed for the long term. I can't be the only one who didn't lose the belief in just 10 games.

And I can't be the only one who was dismayed by Smith's management in comparison. Not simply because he wasn't Farke, but because he didn't get the club, didn't build on the groundwork, didn't make us better in any way.

I was in exactly the same boat as you, but it should be possible to respect the fact that the club actually does have ambition to move up then that should be respected.

Wagner is clearly better for us than Smith. He's also clearly bloody perfect for us. But he's not Farke either. With any luck, he's better and will do the job neither Farke nor Smith could.

Edited January 21, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[ricardo 7,348]

3 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I can't be the only one who wanted to keep Farke indefinitely because I appreciated that he brought something unique and positive to the club that I'd never experienced before. I didn't care about getting relegated if it meant beating Man City or Pukki's nipple being offside against Spurs.

I could accept the short term failure for the overall excitement. Getting 97 points in the Championship is far better than being a lower mid-table Premier League team. 

I could accept that there wasn't a manager in the world who could have kept that squad up without Skipp and Buendia. My support of the club goes deeper than thinking we should be better than we are.

And I can't be the only one who knows that such connections are few and far between. Watching the end of the Lambert era and seeing what an odious pr!ck he was then experiencing the sheer class of Farke in comparison - that wink... 

Farke was given a 4 year contract just weeks before his dismissal. I was under the impression that we were committed for the long term. I can't be the only one who didn't lose the belief in just 10 games.

And I can't be the only one who was dismayed by Smith's management in comparison. Not simply because he wasn't Farke, but because he didn't get the club, didn't build on the groundwork, didn't make us better in any way.

Spot on in every respect.

You are not the only one by a very long chalk.

A big mistake was made by a lot of people who should have known better.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Spot on in every respect.

You are not the only one by a very long chalk.

A big mistake was made by a lot of people who should have known better.

Really? You'd rather have Farke back than see if anyone else might be able to do better? Even the guy we now have who is clearly at least as good?

If Farke had seen the season out, then what? Another rinse and repeat of a fantastic Championship season. Would fans have been any more enthused by that prospect with Farke than with Smith. I don't believe it, and I don't believe Farke would have got us a second promotion either if there had been dejected fans in the stadium at the start of the season instead of at home watching on TV while Covid did its thing. And good ole TvB would be here drip dripping his sack Delia/the board/the tea lady thing all the while for not sacking Farke when he was calling for it...

Edited January 21, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

One full season in the Premier League and a quarter of a season really should conclusively prove that Farke was not up to the job.

It was conclusive to you though, clearly.

I find it hilarious that you've necromanced this thread as a gotcha to TvB, when it's actually a pretty mega self-own.

You dismissed Farke's EPL campaigns as not memorable in a thread this week, yet thanks to you we know you actually "found a reasonable proportion of the games entertaining". He was a "dead end" and "a failure" according to you this week, yet you were defending him against all-comers in the days leading up to his sacking.

It's hilarious that you've bought up a thread where you were making points about the mitigating factors of Farke's EPL campaigns remarkably similar to the ones I've been having to throw at you this week in response to you rubbishing Farke. And to think you bought the thread up to show the contrarian nature of another poster?!

Absolutely brilliant.

 

[Petriix 2,834]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Really? You'd rather have Farke back

No one is asking for Farke back over Wagner. We're all genuinely excited and hope that he can do better. We (I, and I assume others like me) just don't accept the assertion that Farke's race was run and that his sacking was a good choice, even in hindsight. 

[ricardo 7,348]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Really? You'd rather have Farke back than see if anyone else might be able to do better? Even the guy we now have who is clearly at least as good?

If Farke had seen the season out, then what? Another rinse and repeat of a fantastic Championship season. Would fans have been any more enthused by that prospect with Farke than with Smith. I don't believe it, and I don't believe Farke would have got us a second promotion either if there had been dejected fans in the stadium at the start of the season instead of at home watching on TV while Covid did its thing. And good ole TvB would be here drip dripping his sack Delia/the board/the tea lady thing all the while for not sacking Farke when he was calling for it...

The club professed to have a unique identity both on and off the pitch. Some of us were happy to embrace it whatever the outcome but when those in charge faltered at the first sign of difficulties they needlessly threw that all away. 

I guess some people are scared of being different and are more comfortable just being like everyone else.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It was conclusive to you though, clearly.

I find it hilarious that you've necromanced this thread as a gotcha to TvB, when it's actually a pretty mega self-own.

You dismissed Farke's EPL campaigns as not memorable in a thread this week, yet thanks to you we know you actually "found a reasonable proportion of the games entertaining". He was a "dead end" and "a failure" according to you this week, yet you were defending him against all-comers in the days leading up to his sacking.

It's hilarious that you've bought up a thread where you were making points about the mitigating factors of Farke's EPL campaigns remarkably similar to the ones I've been having to throw at you this week in response to you rubbishing Farke. And to think you bought the thread up to show the contrarian nature of another poster?!

Absolutely brilliant.

Python 

He argues for the sake of it.  Bonkers.  Like a Monty Python character. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It was conclusive to you though, clearly.

I find it hilarious that you've necromanced this thread as a gotcha to TvB, when it's actually a pretty mega self-own.

You dismissed Farke's EPL campaigns as not memorable in a thread this week, yet thanks to you we know you actually "found a reasonable proportion of the games entertaining". He was a "dead end" and "a failure" according to you this week, yet you were defending him against all-comers in the days leading up to his sacking.

It's hilarious that you've bought up a thread where you were making points about the mitigating factors of Farke's EPL campaigns remarkably similar to the ones I've been having to throw at you this week in response to you rubbishing Farke. And to think you bought the thread up to show the contrarian nature of another poster?!

Absolutely brilliant.

 

My words this week were parodying a lot of the criticisms of Farke at the time of his dismissal rather than really meaning it. This is the style of all of the overly simplistic arguments fans seem to use to get managers sacked when they're in a strop. I have lots of respect for him, but it's been funny to see how those comments have upset some of the same people who were making those same comments at the time of his dismissal.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

My words this week were parodying a lot of the criticisms of Farke at the time of his dismissal rather than really meaning it. This is the style of all of the overly simplistic arguments fans seem to use to get managers sacked when they're in a strop. I have lots of respect for him, but it's been funny to see how those comments have upset some of the same people who were making those same comments at the time of his dismissal.

See!

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You're right, it's not exclusive, but for a distant supporter like myself online is pretty much the only interaction and insight you get from people who are actually at games, and it is so f**king boring to come here looking for thoughts about the games just to be confronted by piles and piles of drivel about the manager's waistline, his cup of tea, or what he said wrong in the presser.

The fans who do go to games saw thousands of empty seats and thousands more early leavers. Then they had to come on here to read your sanctimonious drivel.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

4 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The club professed to have a unique identity both on and off the pitch. Some of us were happy to embrace it whatever the outcome but when those in charge faltered at the first sign of difficulties they needlessly threw that all away. 

I guess some people are scared of being different and are more comfortable just being like everyone else.

It's easy to say that, but some people will refuse to accept that. You think TvB would accept that? No way. For him, that's an argument to sack the whole board.

The club does have a unique identity but satisfying a group who want entertaining football and a group who want to be a permanent fixture in the Premier League on a shoestring is not realistic.

13 minutes ago, Petriix said:

No one is asking for Farke back over Wagner. We're all genuinely excited and hope that he can do better. We (I, and I assume others like me) just don't accept the assertion that Farke's race was run and that his sacking was a good choice, even in hindsight. 

I honestly didn't think you did. I like the stuff you post and I''m sorry that I've got your back up (same to Ricardo).

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

The fans who do go to games saw thousands of empty seats and thousands more early leavers. Then they had to come on here to read your sanctimonious drivel.

Oh do f**k off Mr sack the board.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

He argues for the sake of it.  Bonkers.  Like a Monty Python character. 

Need to take a look in the mirror.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Oh do f**k off Mr sack the board.

You've bumped a thread from me arguing that we should sack Farke, then suggested yourself that Farke was a proven failure in the top tier. I'm just incredibly confused. I don't understand why you have bumped the thread, or what point you are trying to make.

What I do know though is that you don't seem very happy at the moment and that is odd for a purported supporter of a team that has won 4-2 away today. 

All I can really deduce is that you have some sort of chip on your shoulder, or an axe to grind. Well wipe it off, or consider the axe ground and move on, you are coming across as bitter and twisted (or just mentally ill, in which case you have my sympathies).

I feel sorry for you that you couldn't just allow yourself to enjoy our win.

Edited January 21, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,181]

23 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

He argues for the sake of it.  Bonkers.  Like a Monty Python character. 

No he doesn't......

😉

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Oh do f**k off Mr sack the board.

Bump my thread then tell me to f*ck off, please see a doctor.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

You've bumped a thread from me arguing that we should sack Farke, then suggested yourself that Farke was a proven failure in the top tier. I'm just incredibly confused. I don't understand why you have bumped the thread, or what point you are trying to make.

What I do know though is that you don't seem very happy at the moment and that is odd for a purported supporter of a team that has won 4-2 away today. 

All I can really deduce is that you have some sort of chip on your shoulder, or an axe to grind. Well wipe it off, or consider the axe ground and move on, you are coming across as bitter and twisted (or just mentally ill).

I know you don't understand. It's just because you're very stupid, as illustrated by your support for Liz Truss as Conservative leader and PM. Don't worry about it.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

I know you don't understand. It's just because you're very stupid, as illustrated by your support for Liz Truss as Conservative leader and PM. Don't worry about it.

I don't know where this all came from mate, it's very random, completely out of nowhere, please seek help.

Edited January 21, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I know you don't understand. It's just because you're very stupid, as illustrated by your support for Liz Truss as Conservative leader and PM. Don't worry about it.

I won't worry about it, couldn't give a sh*t.

I'll just remain confused about how a 4-2 victory has led you to find and bump half a dozen threads about Daniel Farke.

You seem to be taking our recent good performances very badly. Is this a reaction to the penny dropping RE: Dean Smith doing a terrible job with a very talented group?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

14 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Oh do f**k off Mr sack the board.

 

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Bump my thread then tell me to f*ck off, please see a doctor.

Aha! Gotcha! You've accepted you're Mr Sack the Board.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Aha! Gotcha! You've accepted you're Mr Sack the Board.

I still have literally no idea what is going on or why you've decided to bump my thread.

This whole exchange has been bizarre.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

I won't worry about it, couldn't give a sh*t.

I'll just remain confused about how a 4-2 victory has led you to find and bump half a dozen threads about Daniel Farke.

You seem to be taking our recent good performances very badly. Is this a reaction to the penny dropping RE: Dean Smith doing a terrible job with a very talented group?

I've loved the performances; I've found the determination of others to bring comments about Dean Smith into it that are basically unfair rather annoying so I've had a bit of fun pointing out some examples of sack the manager missions that didn't work out so well as this one.

Anyway, we've got a great manager and a great Sporting Director; we have both agreed on that fact, which is reason to rejoice.