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TeemuVanBasten

We only owed Farke a shot at this league...

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There seems to be a subsection of fans who believe that we owe Farke some sort of eternal debt of gratitude for winning promotion which should buy him an unlimited amount of time in the job, or essentially he should be allowed to relegate us, threaten the lowest ever points tally record, or lowest goals scored record, etc... 

.. but why? 

Promotions aren't all down to the manager, but the players too, and that's all they get isn't it? A shot at the Prem? In our first promotion season it didn't take long for Farke to decide that Moritz Leitner had his chance and simply wasn't good enough. Similar happened with Chris Martin under Paul Lambert, got a few games at the start of the season, was obviously well of the pace so sent packing.

Hugill didn't even get that. 

Is it any different to us sampling Farke in the Prem and deciding after a quarter of a season that he, just like Leitner, and Chris Martin before him simply isn't necessarily equipped for this level? 

 

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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Can’t see anything happening before Saturday, no matter how many different ways folk find to say that he isn’t up to it.

And then if we win…🤷‍♂️
 

Are we at the stage where beating Brentford could relegate us? 

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I agree with the OP. A whole host of clubs take a horses for courses approach nowadays - and we have the wrong horse for this course, to put it mildly.

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21 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

There seems to be a subsection of fans who believe that we owe Farke some sort of eternal debt of gratitude for winning promotion which should buy him an unlimited amount of time in the job, or essentially he should be allowed to relegate us, threaten the lowest ever points tally record, or lowest goals scored record, etc... 

.. but why? 

Promotions aren't all down to the manager, but the players too, and that's all they get isn't it? A shot at the Prem? In our first promotion season it didn't take long for Farke to decide that Moritz Leitner had his chance and simply wasn't good enough. Similar happened with Chris Martin under Paul Lambert, got a few games at the start of the season, was obviously well of the pace so sent packing.

Hugill didn't even get that. 

Is it any different to us sampling Farke in the Prem and deciding after a quarter of a season that he, just like Leitner, and Chris Martin before him simply isn't necessarily equipped for this level? 

 

 

It's not just about gratitude in my outlook. I have total confidence in his ability as a coach. In some ways I think it would be in his interests for his career to go as I've no doubt a Bundesliga 1 or possibly a mid-table Premier league club would be keen to have his services.

The phrase 'he's not premier league material' has been regularly banded about, but ultimately nobody can make that statement about any manager unless they've failed with an established Premier League club with proven Premier League players; in the absence of that then it's an empty and unsupportable assertion.

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28 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

There seems to be a subsection of fans who believe that we owe Farke some sort of eternal debt of gratitude for winning promotion which should buy him an unlimited amount of time in the job, or essentially he should be allowed to relegate us, threaten the lowest ever points tally record, or lowest goals scored record, etc... 

.. but why? 

Promotions aren't all down to the manager, but the players too, and that's all they get isn't it? A shot at the Prem? In our first promotion season it didn't take long for Farke to decide that Moritz Leitner had his chance and simply wasn't good enough. Similar happened with Chris Martin under Paul Lambert, got a few games at the start of the season, was obviously well of the pace so sent packing.

Hugill didn't even get that. 

Is it any different to us sampling Farke in the Prem and deciding after a quarter of a season that he, just like Leitner, and Chris Martin before him simply isn't necessarily equipped for this level? 

 

 

Something doesn't add up with this football club. Like Uncle Fred said, we are more the joke with every passing day 

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My next-door neighbours are a family of Arsenal fans. I get on well with them but it is clear that they have been avoiding me for the last few weeks through embarrassment at not knowing what to say to me.

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2 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

My next-door neighbours are a family of Arsenal fans. I get on well with them but it is clear that they have been avoiding me for the last few weeks through embarrassment at not knowing what to say to me.

Have you considered moving?

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3 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

My next-door neighbours are a family of Arsenal fans. I get on well with them but it is clear that they have been avoiding me for the last few weeks through embarrassment at not knowing what to say to me.

Their loss.

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One of the saddest things for me is that Farke would of lost significantly less fan support if he just had confidence in his own footballing principles rather that panicking after a horrendously difficult start. Remember losing regularly last time? Sure there where the ‘where’s the plan B’ accusations etc but we were regularly referred to as the best bottom team in the PL, playing good football, or Farkeball. A further year developing this to be more difficult to score against and everything dropped after 4 games which almost everyone thought we would lose anyway. Such a shame.

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41 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

 

 

Are we at the stage where beating Brentford could relegate us? 

Probably.  But so will losing against Brentford.  Or getting a draw.

Too little quality, too little fight and too far behind 

 

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16 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

My next-door neighbours are a family of Arsenal fans. I get on well with them but it is clear that they have been avoiding me for the last few weeks through embarrassment at not knowing what to say to me.

The view from their house is somewhat like this I expect:

have-a-word.jpg?w=640

Don't take it personal, we're all going through it.

Was speeding around the city centre Sunday night in a vein attempt to get points, copper saw the NCFC keyring and let me off on mitigating circumstances.

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29 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

My next-door neighbours are a family of Arsenal fans. I get on well with them but it is clear that they have been avoiding me for the last few weeks through embarrassment at not knowing what to say to me.

A lie is a lie.

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48 minutes ago, thebigfeller said:

I agree with the OP. A whole host of clubs take a horses for courses approach nowadays - and we have the wrong horse for this course, to put it mildly.

Nooo, you've got it wrong. Farke isn't a horse, he's ON a horse.

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37 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

My next-door neighbours are a family of Arsenal fans. I get on well with them but it is clear that they have been avoiding me for the last few weeks through embarrassment at not knowing what to say to me.

I know the feeling, some opposing fans are more embarrassed than we are now to talk about it. 

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1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

possibly a mid-table Premier league club would be keen to have his services.

Eh? In what world would this happen, given his PL record to date? Championship absolutely - not a cat in hell's chance he would get another job in the PL as a first team coach or manager.

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5 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Eh? In what world would this happen, given his PL record to date? Championship absolutely - not a cat in hell's chance he would get another job in the PL as a first team coach or manager.

......unless he turns this round. If he does that, the world would be his oyster.

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1 hour ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

One of the saddest things for me is that Farke would of lost significantly less fan support if he just had confidence in his own footballing principles rather that panicking after a horrendously difficult start. Remember losing regularly last time? Sure there where the ‘where’s the plan B’ accusations etc but we were regularly referred to as the best bottom team in the PL, playing good football, or Farkeball. A further year developing this to be more difficult to score against and everything dropped after 4 games which almost everyone thought we would lose anyway. Such a shame.

Quite correct, no performance this season has come anywhere close to the positive displays in 19/20. Norwich play with zero confidence now and look beat very early on in matches. 

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Just now, lake district canary said:

......unless he turns this round. If he does that, the world would be his oyster.

Mate, if he turns this around, everyone on here will have his babies! It would be the biggest miracle in the Premier League's history - including Leicester winning the title. 

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No, silly. The club doesn’t value individual players, so the same loyalty does not apply to them. Players, even so-called star players are just interchangeable cogs that Webber can easily  replace for pennies on a whim. 

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8 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Eh? In what world would this happen, given his PL record to date? Championship absolutely - not a cat in hell's chance he would get another job in the PL as a first team coach or manager.

What do you mean 'another' job in the Premier League? He has never got a job in the Premier League; he has been given a job in the Championship and got that Championship team promoted... twice... by an easy margin. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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9 hours ago, Barry Brockes said:

My next-door neighbours are a family of Arsenal fans. I get on well with them but it is clear that they have been avoiding me for the last few weeks through embarrassment at not knowing what to say to me.

I've had zero banter from work colleagues around the country. We've transcended gentle ribbing, gone beyond outright p*ss taking, we've achieved pity status. That's a new one for me. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

......unless he turns this round. If he does that, the world would be his oyster.

Think this is the issue LDC. I would wager the vast majority of supporters who think Farke should go would be fully behind him again if he showed he could turn this around.

If Brentford is a win and it kicks off a period of sustained good football and results that show he has what it takes at this level I think the majority would be right back behind him and happy for him to continue even if it ultimately results in another relegation, as seems now extremely likely.

The difference just is you are clinging on to the hope that will still happen (and it could still) where as a lot of us have just seen no evidence to suggest that it will and have lost that hope.

At some point hoping for something that never materialises necessitates a change, I’d hope we can agree on that. All that changes between supporters is where they draw that line.

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10 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's not just about gratitude in my outlook. I have total confidence in his ability as a coach. In some ways I think it would be in his interests for his career to go as I've no doubt a Bundesliga 1 or possibly a mid-table Premier league club would be keen to have his services.

The phrase 'he's not premier league material' has been regularly banded about, but ultimately nobody can make that statement about any manager unless they've failed with an established Premier League club with proven Premier League players; in the absence of that then it's an empty and unsupportable assertion.

Farke's record in the EPL is shocking. No sane person from an EPL club would employ him. He is totally lost and Norwich's perversity in blind faith shows the neither want or care about staying in the top tier. 

You judge in actions rather than words, and Norwich City Football Club simply are not serious about how football works in 2021. 

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Unless there is a change at the top I am quite happy to stick with the same package for next season and this includes Webber and most certainly Farke. Not over the moon, I hasten to add.

They have proven to be quite capable of re-grouping and making a tilt for the top in the past, and they can do so again, especially with the rest of this season to plan and prepare and with loads of PL dosh to use. We still benefit from promising youngsters brought up under DF's wing.

They might know sod all about Premier League survival, but they certainly know the Chumps.

Self-sufficiency and Premier League existence having proven to be a contradiction of terms, and with the current owners superglued to their padded seats in their mini-stand, the best we can hope for is to secure our yo-yo status.

 

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14 minutes ago, komakino said:

Farke's record in the EPL is shocking. No sane person from an EPL club would employ him. He is totally lost and Norwich's perversity in blind faith shows the neither want or care about staying in the top tier. 

You judge in actions rather than words, and Norwich City Football Club simply are not serious about how football works in 2021. 

You're not judging on actions; you're judging on numbers on a table regardless of other factors. 

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2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You're not judging on actions; you're judging on numbers on a table regardless of other factors. 

Football is a results business where nobody owes anyone anything. It is abundantly clear that while Webber's recruitment has been poor, Farke cannot get the best out of them. Combined with his previous record in the EPL, there is no logical reason why he should remain in situ.

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10 minutes ago, komakino said:

Football is a results business where nobody owes anyone anything. It is abundantly clear that while Webber's recruitment has been poor, Farke cannot get the best out of them. Combined with his previous record in the EPL, there is no logical reason why he should remain in situ.

I love that phrase 'football is a results business'. It's not a results business. It's a sport with high entertainment value, which is marketed commercially; The business element of football is usually completely ignored in the desperate pursuit of results with overspending and flailing strategies. Norwich City is actually remarkable in not doing the same. 

 

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4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I love that phrase 'football is a results business'. It's not a results business. It's a sport with high entertainment value, which is marketed commercially; The business element of football is usually completely ignored in the desperate pursuit of results with overspending and flailing strategies. Norwich City is actually remarkable in not doing the same. 

 

Entertainment has been in extremely short supply this season!

If you don't get results, you get relegated. And so forth. Of course it is a business, but there is nothing remarkable about Norwich City. Our business model is built on sand. It is unsustainable. It relies on parachute payments and player sales, but it is unrealistic for the club to keep bouncing back and keep selling high value players. 

Certain fans keep criticising other clubs, yet we haven't got our own house in order. The end game is upon us. 

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3 minutes ago, komakino said:

Entertainment has been in extremely short supply this season!

If you don't get results, you get relegated. And so forth. Of course it is a business, but there is nothing remarkable about Norwich City. Our business model is built on sand. It is unsustainable. It relies on parachute payments and player sales, but it is unrealistic for the club to keep bouncing back and keep selling high value players. 

Certain fans keep criticising other clubs, yet we haven't got our own house in order. The end game is upon us. 

I disagree. I've found a reasonable proportion of the games entertaining this season. Frustrating as well, granted. 

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1 minute ago, komakino said:

Entertainment has been in extremely short supply this season!

If you don't get results, you get relegated. And so forth. Of course it is a business, but there is nothing remarkable about Norwich City. Our business model is built on sand. It is unsustainable. It relies on parachute payments and player sales, but it is unrealistic for the club to keep bouncing back and keep selling high value players. 

Certain fans keep criticising other clubs, yet we haven't got our own house in order. The end game is upon us. 

The really depressing point is that I don't think it matters when we replace Farke, or who we replace him with, we're going to be hitting this same glass ceiling time and time again with the current model. It effectively requires Farke and Webber to continually perform miracles to even repeat our current level of success, and that's really not sustainable.

I see a lot of discussion around sacking Farke and getting a better coach in, but I don't think that guarantees any sort of improvement, and we can certainly get worse and struggle in the Championship next season.

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