It was the same with Neil.

[lake district canary 4,531]

9 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

48 Games, 5 wins - there's your time.  Or perhaps 5 in 60 is where you draw the line?

And there you go again, happily ignoring the championship season as if it was easy.

[thebigfeller 200]

4 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

And there you go again, happily ignoring the championship season as if it was easy.

And there you go again, treating success in the Championship as in any way relevant to life in the Premier League. It isn't.

Meanwhile, what was our record in the Championship whenever Buendia didn't play? So we could hardly win without him at that level - then we look absolutely hopeless without him at a much higher level? Not exactly a shock, is it?

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, thebigfeller said:

And there you go again, treating success in the Championship as in any way relevant to life in the Premier League. It isn't.

Meanwhile, what was our record in the Championship whenever Buendia didn't play? So we could hardly win without him at that level - then we look absolutely hopeless without him at a much higher level? Not exactly a shock, is it?

We were pretty hopeless with Buendia in the last PL season......

All these arguments about the last PL season are so unnecessary - it's just like trying to find extra sticks to beat the manager with and it dismisses last season as if it was a nothing achievement.   And it also ignores the circumstances of that last PL season too, which is another thing people choose to ignore as if it was nothing. Wrong perspective. Totally.  I expect that from the media, but I would expect that our fans could see a little bit more than keeping quoting stuff from the last PL season - where we struggled from a huge injury crisis into just starting to be competitive again when the lockdown struck - and thereafter all momentum was lost.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

34 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

We were pretty hopeless with Buendia in the last PL season......

All these arguments about the last PL season are so unnecessary - it's just like trying to find extra sticks to beat the manager with and it dismisses last season as if it was a nothing achievement.   And it also ignores the circumstances of that last PL season too, which is another thing people choose to ignore as if it was nothing. Wrong perspective. Totally.  I expect that from the media, but I would expect that our fans could see a little bit more than keeping quoting stuff from the last PL season - where we struggled from a huge injury crisis into just starting to be competitive again when the lockdown struck - and thereafter all momentum was lost.

So ignore the last PL outing but remember last season.

Very selective in the evidence to support your claim.

[lake district canary 4,531]

13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

So ignore the last PL outing but remember last season.

Very selective in the evidence to support your claim.

Chronological, not selective.

[kenfoggo 247]

Ignoring the last Premiership relegation of the last disastrous 10 games and looking ONLY at this season, 10 games and 2 points, 3 goals and 8 defeats. Those are facts, they are written in Premiership history and Farke is responsible , the facts cannot be dodged.

[anonamoose 4]

19 hours ago, thebigfeller said:

Every fired manager hits a point where it's over.

Worthington did in October 2005, when we lost three on the bounce to inept opposition. We set ourselves back at least 5 years and took ourselves towards administration by keeping him for another wasted year, culminating in open mutiny v Burnley.

Gunn did at Charlton. We kept him on regardless. 

Hughton did at Man City. We kept him on regardless, culminating in open mutiny v West Brom.

Neil did at Brighton. We kept him on regardless, blowing our parachute payments and imperilling our entire future.

Farke did at Chelsea. And if we don't sack him during the international break, we'll just be doing it yet again. Delaying the inevitable and poisoning the fanbase for no good reason and only bad ones.

This isn’t correct.
 

You can’t judge a manager on future performances he won’t get to participate in. In a parallel universe we could have sacked Farke and you would have said “For Farke it was over after 10 premier league losses in lockdown”. We kept him and he won the championship title.

I understand your point of “enough is enough” but no one really knows whether he can or will turn this round. Some people still think he can.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Chronological, not selective.

Illogical

[Monty13 2,229]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Chronological, not selective.

Why is chronological more important than the level of the games?

Most managers would have been sacked after that first PL season. Supporters stuck with him and he delivered at Championship level.

Now we are back in the PL and it’s like we never left based on performance and results at this level.

Also, chronological is being selective by definition.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Monty13

[Google Bot 3,256]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

And there you go again, happily ignoring the championship season as if it was easy.

It was easy.   

Well, other than 4 losses to Bournemouth and Watford, rather much like this season and 19/20.  He simply cannot deliver unless he has the better players, proven in fact. 

Here's another little hint:-

[lake district canary 4,531]

20 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

It was easy.  

Try telling that to the players.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Why is chronological more important than the level of the games?

Most managers would have been sacked after that first PL season. Supporters stuck with him and he delivered at Championship level.

A) because that is how life works.

B) So we were right to keep him on even though we were losing all those games.......

[Google Bot 3,256]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Try telling that to the players.

Farke (With Emi): 49% Win Rate

Farke (Without): 7% Win Rate

Farke (Now): 0% Win Rate

"Give him more time" 🤪

[lake district canary 4,531]

15 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Farke (With Emi): 49% Win Rate

Farke (Without): 7% Win Rate

Farke (Now): 0% Win Rate

"Give him more time" 🤪

What's that got to do with your assertion that it was easy, which is what I asked you? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

43 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Try telling that to the players.

No? just ask the opposition players.

[Google Bot 3,256]

7 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

What's that got to do with your assertion that it was easy, which is what I asked you? 

You never asked me anything, you told me to tell "It was easy" to the players.

If you construct a question I'll answer it, because there's a mile high stack of evidence as to how poor Farke is when he doesn't hold the best set of players in the league. 

And when you hold that hand, of course it's an easy job - we were favourites for promotion and to win the league, even players were joining in on the 'HMS' banter through the season via socials, and fans were saying it before a ball was kicked.

To support your assertion that this man needs "more time", and he's not just simply out of his depth, as a return question i'm asking for you to demonstrate Farke achieving anywhere near a similar level without Emi Buendia? 

[lake district canary 4,531]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

No? just ask the opposition players.

How close were some of those games, eh?  How many buy the odd goal? Quite a lot.

[thebigfeller 200]

13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

What's that got to do with your assertion that it was easy, which is what I asked you? 

It WAS easy.

1. We had the parachute money. Notice what's happening this season, with Bournemouth, Fulham and West Brom stretching away at the top. Funny, I wonder why that is?

2. We had a star player who took the **** out of the entire league every week.

We've lost that star player and are absolutely clueless without him - because the manager's never had the remotest clue what to do without him. Just like he didn't with Maddison in 2017/18, who kept us up all by himself.

But you see, I could take your protestations about 'perspective' and 'unrealistic expectations' a heck of a lot more seriously if you hadn't said, earlier in the thread, that you'd have backed the club if it had kept Bryan Gunn in charge.

That is to say: you'd have backed keeping in charge (sic) someone who, with one of the two best squads in the division, lost 7-1, at home, to Colchester United; who signed the worst goalkeeper (sic) in our history; who'd played a huge part in the catastrophic recruitment which had relegated us to the third tier for the first time in half a century; who couldn't motivate his way out of a paper bag; and who got the job because of a Facebook campaign by his daughter.

It's also to say you'd have backed something which would have literally taken the club into administration. Because we couldn't afford not to get immediate promotion. There is no 'perspective' in your comments at all. What there always - always, always, always - is:

Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles.

"All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds".

There's a reason why Voltaire's Candide is so famous. And there's a reason why Dr Pangloss was such an absolute laughing stock.

I'll leave it to you in your next response to remind us how fortunate we all are not to live in brutish eighteenth century France. 🙄🙄🙄

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

You never asked me anything, you told me to tell "It was easy" to the players.

If you construct a question I'll answer it, because there's a mile high stack of evidence as to how poor Farke is when he doesn't hold the best set of players in the league.

You just totally ignored my point about how easy you said it was and I said "ask the players" and you came back at me with a load of stats about Buendia.  If you don't want to have a proper dialogue, that's up to you. 

Oh and I'm well aware of how good Buendia was to us, but no one player wins promotion. What about the stats about Pukki? I bet they are very similar when he played and when he didn't play.

Also, people go on about how Buendia was so good and how we couldn't win without him - and then go on about we couldn't win last time in the PL.....but wasn't Buendia playing for us then??

[lake district canary 4,531]

9 minutes ago, thebigfeller said:

It WAS easy.

1. We had the parachute money. Notice what's happening this season, with Bournemouth, Fulham and West Brom stretching away at the top. Funny, I wonder why that is?

2. We had a star player who took the **** out of the entire league every week.

We've lost that star player and are absolutely clueless without him - because the manager's never had the remotest clue what to do without him. Just like he didn't with Maddison in 2017/18, who kept us up all by himself.

But you see, I could take your protestations about 'perspective' and 'unrealistic expectations' a heck of a lot more seriously if you hadn't said, earlier in the thread, that you'd have backed the club if it had kept Bryan Gunn in charge.

That is to say: you'd have backed keeping in charge (sic) someone who, with one of the two best squads in the division, lost 7-1, at home, to Colchester United; who signed the worst goalkeeper (sic) in our history; who'd played a huge part in the catastrophic recruitment which had relegated us to the third tier for the first time in half a century; who couldn't motivate his way out of a paper bag; and who got the job because of a Facebook campaign by his daughter.

It's also to say you'd have backed something which would have literally taken the club into administration. Because we couldn't afford not to get immediate promotion. There is no 'perspective' in your comments at all. What there always - always, always, always - is:

Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles.

"All is for the best in the best of all possible worlds".

There's a reason why Voltaire's Candide is so famous. And there's a reason why Dr Pangloss was such an absolute laughing stock.

I'll leave it to you in your next response to remind us how fortunate we all are not to live in brutish eighteenth century France. 🙄🙄🙄

What a load of rubbish.

[Google Bot 3,256]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

You just totally ignored my point about how easy you said it was and I said "ask the players" and you came back at me with a load of stats about Buendia.  If you don't want to have a proper dialogue, that's up to you. 

I've explained twice how easy it was, do you want it in bullet points?  Not sure how I can actually get you to absorb this any easier.

WE...HAD...A...BETTER...SQUAD...THAN...EVERYONE...ELSE....OTHER....THAN...THE...TWO...TEAMS...THAT...BEAT....US.

If I had the talent I would illustrate it in Mr Men book form for you if it made it any easy for you to digest?

4 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Oh and I'm well aware of how good Buendia was to us, but no one player wins promotion.

Fancy explaining how that doesn't demonstrate one man winning us promotion? 

7% win rate gets you where exactly?

Missed the part where Pukki needs service? 

Missed the bit where Farke can't provide him service without Emi?  I mean, there's 9 other outfield players that he's got, and still unable.

5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Also, people go on about how Buendia was so good and how we couldn't win without him - and then go on about we couldn't win last time in the PL.....but wasn't Buendia playing for us then??

Yes he was, and the like for like comparison with matchday 10 vs now, It is as so:-

So, to confirm, with Emi we had:

3.5x more points

3.6x more goals

Infinite more wins

And a small win vs Man City to put up on the wall.

 

Again, I'll ask of you to demonstrate Farke achieving anything near the same level without Emi Buendia?  (This is the bit you ignore).

[lake district canary 4,531]

Sorry, you're wasting your time. I don't enjoy one sided conversations.

[Google Bot 3,256]

22 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Sorry, you're wasting your time. I don't enjoy one sided conversations.

Please, I beg of you "GIVE ME MORE TIME!", we can make this work sweetheart! 🤣😆

💔

[lake district canary 4,531]

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

29 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Sorry, you're wasting your time. I don't enjoy being shown up in conversations.

Fixed for you 👍

[thebigfeller 200]

8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I thought Gunn had shot his bolt, but would have supported the club if they had chosen to keep him on - the idea had been good in making a dream team of manager/coaches

 

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

What a load of rubbish.

Quite. 

[thebigfeller 200]

I first became a Norwich fan during 1988/9, falling in love with that great side. The following managers in my City-watching life have noticeably outperformed the resources available to them:

- Dave Stringer, 1988/89

- Mike Walker, 1992-4

- Paul Lambert, 2010-12

- Chris Hughton, 2012-13 (but in bare results only, not in performances)

- Daniel Farke, 2018/19

Lambert and Alex Neil both inherited squads built for instant promotion. Anything more than that proved beyond AN, but not PL.

Nigel Worthington spent a considerable amount extremely well in Summer 2001, then brought in key loans and ultimately, Huckerby in 2003/4. That squad was designed to go up too - but he couldn't keep us at the higher level, despite having a huge chance to do so.

Farke succeeded beyond imagination in 2019, then failed badly in 2020...and then, because of parachute payments, keeping Buendia and loaning Skipp, did what was expected last season. Taking us back up. He's now performing well below the club and Stuart Webber's expectations; he's not giving us more than other PL managers would. He's likely giving us a bit less.

[lake district canary 4,531]

29 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

59 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Sorry, you're wasting your time. I don't enjoy being shown up in conversations.

Fixed for you

Not partcularly clever to alter someone else's post, but whatever turns you on. I don't feel "shown up" but hey, you think what you like. Personally, I think it is an insult to say last season was easy and belittles the achievment.

Edited November 3, 2021 by lake district canary

[City 101 83]

Let’s be honest every other club on the planet would have kicked his **** back to Germany by now , and people wonder why the nation is laughing at us . 

[Monty13 2,229]

5 hours ago, lake district canary said:

A) because that is how life works.

B) So we were right to keep him on even though we were losing all those games.......

Life doesn’t ignore things just because they come after, not sure on your point here.

Depends on the end goal, if the end goal was to become competitive in the PL the evidence would suggest not.