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32 minutes ago, greendoor said:

They are not pundits, they are fans who make entertainment for Youtube. The aim ultimately is to get clicks and reactionary bold statements get clicks. 

I haven't seen enough of their content to comment on nuance or insight. 

A pundit is a person who offers to mass media opinion or commentary on a particular subject area

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7 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

It seems our owners live for turning fans against club legends. See Gunn, Worthington, Adams and Neil. Farke will be the next one added to that list and frankly he deserves better.

Are you actually calling Alex Neil a club legend? 

Scraping the barrel with Neil Adams really, who became popular with the fans due to the quality of his radio show long after playing really, rather than anything he did on the pitch, but Alex Neil takes the biscuit. 

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11 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

That's not what is being said. 

As I explained earlier in this thread, all but the most blinkered can see that the writing is on the wall. Farke has done tremendously well for the club, but he is completely out of his depth at Premier League level. John Gorman has a better win ratio than Farke and there are only about 10 managers with worse records than him.

The longer it takes the board to relieve him of his duties the more tarnished his legacy becomes. I for one do not want to see him hounded out of the club because the board allow a toxic atmosphere develop due to their inaction, with Farke being the sole recipient of the fan's ire. Unfortunately Smith and Jones are nothing if not predictable and will dither and procrastinate, until Farke's achievements are not what he is remembered for.

It seems our owners live for turning fans against club legends. See Gunn, Worthington, Adams and Neil. Farke will be the next one added to that list and frankly he deserves better.

 

 

I'm just going to say this.

If you choose to boo Daniel Farke, or sing for his sacking, that's on you. I won't be doing it. 

If you choose to do it, the board aren't making you do it. 

It all feels a little too similar to telling your kid 'don't make me hit you by misbehaving'. 

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1 minute ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I'm just going to say this.

If you choose to boo Daniel Farke, or sing for his sacking, that's on you. I won't be doing it. 

If you choose to do it, the board aren't making you do it. 

It all feels a little too similar to telling your kid 'don't make me hit you by misbehaving'. 

Again, not what is being said Beefy.

If anyone deserves the ire of the fans it's our owners for their complete lack of competence at top flight level. The one constant in every relegation from the top flight is that they dither as we go down with a whimper, when earlier action, while maybe not preventing relegation, may have at least given us a fighting chance of staying up.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

Again, not what is being said Beefy.

If anyone deserves the ire of the fans it's our owners for their complete lack of competence at top flight level. The one constant in every relegation from the top flight is that they dither as we go down with a whimper, when earlier action, while maybe not preventing relegation, may have at least given us a fighting chance of staying up.

 

 

To be fair, though, it's harder this time. There was never much love for Hughton because of his style of football. I think people liked Neil, but they hadn't built up the genuine affection many of them have for Farke. If it happens, this is going to hurt.

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12 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Are you actually calling Alex Neil a club legend? 

Scraping the barrel with Neil Adams really, who became popular with the fans due to the quality of his radio show long after playing really, rather than anything he did on the pitch, but Alex Neil takes the biscuit. 

As one of only 6 managers that have over seen promotion to the top flight, yes Neil deserves to be considered a club legend. The same can be said for Adams as he is a member of the NCFC Hall of Fame.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

As one of only 6 managers that have over seen promotion to the top flight, yes Neil deserves to be considered a club legend. The same can be said for Adams as he is a member of the NCFC Hall of Fame.

We need a new word for actual legends then, if the bar is now set that low.

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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59 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I usually applaud your positivity, LDC, but on this occasion, I think you're out with the faeries. Of course there is some kind of divide in the squad. Cantwell and Farke are giving different reasons for the player's absence: there is clearly a problem there. We play a CB at LB when we have two good LBs vieing for that position: it doesn't make sense. We give six starts to a new forward who seems unable to trap a ball, control a ball, pass a ball, or even put the ball into an empty net when the goalkeeper isn't there, and only one start to a much more highly talented recruit who misses a penalty he shouldn't have taken. On two different occasions we take off the same player at half time when he makes a bad mistake; another player who makes two equally bad mistakes is first on the team sheet every week. We have our only player whose preferred role is DM not even making the bench when we are desperate for a DM. We ignore a highly-rated young international who is keeping the guy who we play instead out of his international team. 

Something is badly wrong and everything points to splits in the camp. How can you argue it doesn't?

The Farke/Cantwell thing was something and nothing - a different nuance of the same situation. Farke says he is not ready - Cantwell says he is fit, which is fine, but is he match fit after all his absences - has he shown it in training.....manager's decision and if Todd doesn't like it, he has to prove he is fit and ready.

So we tried a different approach with left back on Sunday. A kind of 343 - with the emphasis on attack. Personally, I was pleased to see Omobamidele on the pitch as he is such a good young player. Did ok I thought too - a bit like playing Godfrey at full back like we did occasionally and Everton did with him too to start with  - good players can play anywhere.

Sargent I like too. Very raw though and one that should develop into a good player. Not ready? But then is Tzolis? Who knows - and do any of us know better than the manager? 

Other than that it is just who all of us might prefer to see - and do we know better than Farke about Sorensen? I'd like to see him play too, but we don't know the full story there either.

All of the angst is about us struggling to make headway, yet again Sunday was a close game decided virtually by one mistake by Kabak. Farke is still learning about him and I would hope he will be told not to do what he did any more.

Nothing would sort this situation out better than a win. Win - or even a good draw - on Saturday, would alleviate some of the pressure on DF.  I hope we get something for his sake as well as ours.

Edited by lake district canary

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51 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

No probs, everyone can have their opinion.

But if one isn't in possession of many key facts, such as the availability of alternative managers, it just means that the opinion isn't of much value. 

Most of our recent managers have been hired while working at another club, they weren't 'available' so to speak. We don't need to peruse the out of work list.

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42 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I hate this argument (see also “the manager is the only one who sees them in training” or “I think Farke knows more than the fans”).

You’re not seriously suggesting you know more than Farke are you, Jim? Things may not be going his way at the moment, as happens to pretty much every manager or coach during their career, but let’s not be ridiculously silly or arrogant - Farke does see them in training and you and I don’t. The likes of you and I do not *know more* than Farke, that’s just an absurd thing to say. But hopefully I just read your post wrong though.
 

 

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11 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

You’re not seriously suggesting you know more than Farke are you, Jim? Things may not be going his way at the moment, as happens to pretty much every manager or coach during their career, but let’s not be ridiculously silly or arrogant - Farke does see them in training and you and I don’t. The likes of you and I do not *know more* than Farke, that’s just an absurd thing to say. But hopefully I just read your post wrong though.
 

 

Without wanting to speak for Jim, I don't think that is what he's saying.

I also hate the 'Farke knows more about it than you' argument on here as it fundamentally serves solely to shut down debate and (when taken to its logical conclusion) entirely removes the point of a discussion forum about football. Obviously Farke knows more than us about football but on that basis we can't debate any decisions ever made by anyone at the football club.

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12 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

You’re not seriously suggesting you know more than Farke are you, Jim? Things may not be going his way at the moment, as happens to pretty much every manager or coach during their career, but let’s not be ridiculously silly or arrogant - Farke does see them in training and you and I don’t. The likes of you and I do not *know more* than Farke, that’s just an absurd thing to say. But hopefully I just read your post wrong though.
 

 

We're all managers, Alex.

I ran a Twitter poll and 46% of respondents would have started Sorensen against Leeds. He didn't even make the squad. And all of those people MUST have seen him in training because he hasn't been near the pitch since August. 😉

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5 hours ago, king canary said:

For me, better drilled defensive drilling and organisation a switch to actually looking to press opposition teams before the cross the halfway line, giving players like Cantwell a clean slate to come in from the cold are a few short term improvements we could see with a new manager. They won't be turning water into wine but I've seen plenty of managers come into clubs and get better results with the existing players.  

Agree 100 percent! Clean slate, give the players some decent drills. Shout at the players instead of standing on the side like a mong. Also a manager who knows how to make subs.

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2 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

We're all managers, Alex.

I ran a Twitter poll and 46% of respondents would have started Sorensen against Leeds. He didn't even make the squad. And all of those people MUST have seen him in training because he hasn't been near the pitch since August. 😉

Yes, the calling for Sorensen is partly the 'Becchio Effect'. But I think it also shows an awareness on the part of the fans that we need a DM and we didn't get one.

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Think most of the problems have to sit at Webber's door , if he is making all the transfer dealings and Farke is just coaching and preparing for matches. Then one has to ponder what relationship they have with regards transfers, was Farke happy?

Each transfer has merits and individually they appear good signings, but too many one's for the future and the team is missing key components and chemistry. When you add together expected goals for each player/position, the total seems to be lacking.  

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4 hours ago, Tumbleweed said:

Slightly off topic but Adrian Durham and Darren Gough were discussing the situation with Cantwell last night. As an aside, Durham mentioned that Grant Hanley had commented about the amount of time they spent in meeting rooms. It led me to wonder if part of the problem is too much rigid theory, and adherence to it, which is bamboozling the team and making what is intrinsically a simple game too complex. DF does appear to to be a stats fan, and it might help to explain what appears to be a lack of spontaneity at times.....

I'm late to this piece, but, I remember Clive Woodward before winning the world cup (2003)-im a rugby player....lol. 'heads up rugby' why rely so much on stats and where people should be, lift your head up and play where they aren't. Rugby (as football) isn't an inherently difficult game, why make it so? 

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Like many his age, he has only lived through a time when most seasons have had something to play for. A good ten season stretch of boring dross will bring him back to reality.

Like the 'wilderness years' in Div 2,pre-Ron Saunders,Ricardo ...........now those were the days when we were going nowhere and reaching the 4th round of the League or FA Cup seemed like winning the Lottery 😔.

Blimey,these young Johnny-Come-Latelys know nowt eh? 

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Without wanting to speak for Jim, I don't think that is what he's saying.

I also hate the 'Farke knows more about it than you' argument on here as it fundamentally serves solely to shut down debate and (when taken to its logical conclusion) entirely removes the point of a discussion forum about football. Obviously Farke knows more than us about football but on that basis we can't debate any decisions ever made by anyone at the football club.

I don’t think I said anything about it having to ultimately shut down debate, did I? It’s just a silly statement, simple as that. There are certain contexts where it’s a perfectly valid response even if someone gets p155ed because it’s the truth. If I raised a point, for arguments sake the Cantwell situation, and started talking all matter of fact about it, and then someone said to me ‘I’m pretty sure Farke knows more about the situation than you’ then I wouldn’t be annoyed by that because at the end of the day it’s a fact. It still won’t stop the debate though, so I don’t know why anyone would get annoyed by it unless they have delusions of grandeur regarding their knowledge of all things NCFC.

Edited by Alex Moss
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1 hour ago, Duncan Edwards said:

We're all managers, Alex.

I ran a Twitter poll and 46% of respondents would have started Sorensen against Leeds. He didn't even make the squad. And all of those people MUST have seen him in training because he hasn't been near the pitch since August. 😉

It is a mystery with Sorensen, Duncs - I’m personally not desperately calling for him to start for the very simple reason that if in training he’s consistently looking to be our very best CDM then I’m pretty sure Farke would relish starting him, as it’s in his very best interests to do so, but the fact he’s not suggests there’s clearly something else at play, most probably that he quite simply isn’t cutting the mustard, or is at least not performing as well as those ahead of him right now anyway. What I won’t buy though is why it *always* has to be Farke’s fault when a player is absent, that’s how it often appears to me anyway. Without knowing the full story I don’t really know how anyone of us can take sides based on nothing at all, it’s bizarre - all we can do is make guesswork at this point, and treat it as that - a pure guess. Personally I’m desperate to see Cantwell back in the side, he’s genuine Premier League quality, but I feel there’s very good reason why he’s not and accept that you can’t have a situation where players are more powerful than the manager, if indeed that *speculative guess* by myself is correct.

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3 hours ago, Ian said:

I don't disagree, but without the financial backing to realistically build and compete at this level I don't think it will make any difference at all over the longer term.

I mean I disagree personally, we don’t have enough money to establish ourselves or to comfortably compete at this level but I find the idea we can’t do better than Farkes PL record ridiculous. Especially as we have done much better, recently, so have other similar clubs.

We are financially disadvantaged, but that’s why it’s even more important that the head coach can make the best of his limited resources at this level, something Farke has failed to do over nearly 50 matches.

Leeds was winnable, so was Brighton and so was Watford. There is always the possibility to take points off even the best teams.

Our financial position means that staying up is much harder, it doesn’t make us completely uncompetitive at this level. That’s the nuance of where Farke has failed for me.

I find it unbelievable how many supporters have bought into the narrative that the finances mean the results, and more importantly the performances, we have seen in the PL in his tenure is it, no one could do any better.

If he can’t make the best of our limited resources at this level then of course a change can make a difference.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Without wanting to speak for Jim, I don't think that is what he's saying.

I also hate the 'Farke knows more about it than you' argument on here as it fundamentally serves solely to shut down debate and (when taken to its logical conclusion) entirely removes the point of a discussion forum about football. Obviously Farke knows more than us about football but on that basis we can't debate any decisions ever made by anyone at the football club.

I don't think that's true though.

But it does perhaps introduce a degree of humility into those who understand that fundamentally, the guy who is at Colney every day, who has the experience and coaching badges, might be better placed to make the key decisions than me, you, or anyone else on this forum.

The fact that some posters don't understand this explains the content of some of the posts in this forum. 

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7 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I mean I disagree personally, we don’t have enough money to establish ourselves or to comfortably compete at this level but I find the idea we can’t do better than Farkes PL record ridiculous. Especially as we have done much better, recently, so have other similar clubs.

We are financially disadvantaged, but that’s why it’s even more important that the head coach can make the best of his limited resources at this level, something Farke has failed to do over nearly 50 matches.

Leeds was winnable, so was Brighton and so was Watford. There is always the possibility to take points off even the best teams.

Our financial position means that staying up is much harder, it doesn’t make us completely uncompetitive at this level. That’s the nuance of where Farke has failed for me.

I find it unbelievable how many supporters have bought into the narrative that the finances mean the results, and more importantly the performances, we have seen in the PL in his tenure is it, no one could do any better.

If he can’t make the best of our limited resources at this level then of course a change can make a difference.

As I said, short term it would certainly be possible to do better, but I don't believe we could establish ourselves without serious investment.

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2 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I'm just going to say this.

If you choose to boo Daniel Farke, or sing for his sacking, that's on you. I won't be doing it. 

If you choose to do it, the board aren't making you do it. 

It all feels a little too similar to telling your kid 'don't make me hit you by misbehaving'. 

You would have said sacking Worthington was a massive mistake and fans who suggest it are wrong. You then said we should keep Alex Neil and fans are stupid for wanting him gone and we can’t do better etc..

All I know is that every time we get ourselves into this position there are lots of fans who are adamant changing the manager is wrong and everyone’s being reactionary, it will only get worse etc… Luckily the club doesn’t listen to you guys or we would have never got Farke in the 1st place.

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14 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I don't think that's true though.

But it does perhaps introduce a degree of humility into those who understand that fundamentally, the guy who is at Colney every day, who has the experience and coaching badges, might be better placed to make the key decisions than me, you, or anyone else on this forum.

The fact that some posters don't understand this explains the content of some of the posts in this forum. 

Everybody understands it. You keep trying to convince yourself your fellow fans don’t. I presume it’s to try and set yourself apart from the others for your own sense of superiority 

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2 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

You’re not seriously suggesting you know more than Farke are you, Jim? Things may not be going his way at the moment, as happens to pretty much every manager or coach during their career, but let’s not be ridiculously silly or arrogant - Farke does see them in training and you and I don’t. The likes of you and I do not *know more* than Farke, that’s just an absurd thing to say. But hopefully I just read your post wrong though.
 

 

No but it’s used to promote the idea that fans are not qualified to comment on what they are seeing on the pitch. That the coach/manager is always right and that we shouldn’t comment on anything as we are just plebs who know nothing about the game. I don’t accept that. Many of us on here have watched thousands of games, some have played to a decent level, many are very intelligent and capable of seeing when things are going wrong on a football pitch and also often why.

Its a lazy response in my view. 

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3 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

But that's not what I said Jim. I actually said everyone can have their opinion and express it how they like.

All I said is that some opinions have more weight than others. 

Your opinions right? Your opinions carry more weight yet other people’s don’t right?

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Just now, Jim Smith said:

No but it’s used to promote the idea that fans are not qualified to comment on what they are seeing on the pitch. That the coach/manager is always right and that we shouldn’t comment on anything as we are just plebs who know nothing about the game. I don’t accept that. Many of us on here have watched thousands of games, some have played to a decent level, many are very intelligent and capable of seeing when things are going wrong on a football pitch and also often why.

Its a lazy response in my view. 

It’s just their stock response when people don’t agree with them. See also ‘Webber is the only one who can make decisions, not anyone on here’ as if they think people on here believe they genuinely make decisions on behalf of the club. 
 

It’s a strange one though. They’ve signed up to a Norwich City discussion forum then claim all discussion is pointless because no one sees them in training. Begs the question as to why they’re on here.

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I think he hit the nail on the head with the comparison to Alex Neil where both seem to of thrown the baby out with the bath water after heavy defeats. We’ve never really been a team that has done anything when set up to defend. 

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27 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I don't think that's true though.

But it does perhaps introduce a degree of humility into those who understand that fundamentally, the guy who is at Colney every day, who has the experience and coaching badges, might be better placed to make the key decisions than me, you, or anyone else on this forum.

The fact that some posters don't understand this explains the content of some of the posts in this forum. 

People with coaching badges and experience still get things wrong. There are a lot of very poor football managers with coaching badges. 

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