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Jack Reeve - Talk Norwich City

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Just now, Ian said:

So basically we would change the manager every few months (a la Watford?) to try and keep that momentum and motivation up? I understand the thought, but I think that's just sticking a plaster on a 15 inch wound.

No. But there’s always a time where it’s necessary, I’d argue with the Sporting Director model even intended to happen.

We’ve seen that moment arrive before with each Manager and we will see it again. I think we’ve reached it with Farke personally given he’s had 48 games to show what he can do at this level and I think we’ve got the answer.

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Most people can see that, and it is actually because I think many still admire his Champs level achievements that they want him to go with dignity and not after a terminal and increasingly vitriolic decline. It would be a parting borne out of tough love not derision or scorn. Well at least at the moment it would be......

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2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Who says Cantwell has fallen out with Farke?  For all we know the issues around Cantwell may be totally explainable and the way he is being managed correct. Likewise, who says there is a problem with Gilmour?  He is a squad member like all the others. So he's done well for scotland - so have Adam Idah and Omobamidele for Ireland and they are not picked much either. I don't suppose Cantwell or Gilmour are happy not being included, but we do have good players apart from them. Divisiveness is not helpful.

I get a bit fed up with people trying to see divides when there may not be there and when what we need is togetherness.  It's just part of people trying to get what they want - all part of the "waah, we don't like it" mentality.  Every Norwich fan is concerned and hurting to see the club struggle but people like Jack Reeve who have a public profile ought to be a bit more careful about casting aspersions where there may not be any.

Get behind the manager. Be helpful to what he needs to do for the next match, not unhelpful. It is a Norwich match, we want them to win....we should want Daniel to win too. And if he wins on Saturday, then that is the start of a resurgence and improvement for this season. Stop the rumour mongering and trying to find division where there might not be - and if there are any conflicts - just remember Oliveira, the way Emi responded to being left out by buckling down and doing well, all down to Farke's firm handling of the situation. Farke is an excellent manager, we will only do worse if he goes.

I don't post alot on here, just like to read opinions and the more I read of your comments the more I'm convinced you're on a wind up. 

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15 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

No. But there’s always a time where it’s necessary, I’d argue with the Sporting Director model even intended to happen.

We’ve seen that moment arrive before with each Manager and we will see it again. I think we’ve reached it with Farke personally given he’s had 48 games to show what he can do at this level and I think we’ve got the answer.

I don't disagree, but without the financial backing to realistically build and compete at this level I don't think it will make any difference at all over the longer term.

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9 minutes ago, Move Klose said:

I don't post alot on here, just like to read opinions and the more I read of your comments the more I'm convinced you're on a wind up. 

You're not alone, but I generally support people I believe in, if that doesn't float your boat, that's your prerogative, but leave out the wind up stuff, eh. 

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2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Who says Cantwell has fallen out with Farke?  For all we know the issues around Cantwell may be totally explainable and the way he is being managed correct. Likewise, who says there is a problem with Gilmour?  He is a squad member like all the others. So he's done well for scotland - so have Adam Idah and Omobamidele for Ireland and they are not picked much either. I don't suppose Cantwell or Gilmour are happy not being included, but we do have good players apart from them. Divisiveness is not helpful.

I get a bit fed up with people trying to see divides when there may not be there and when what we need is togetherness.  It's just part of people trying to get what they want - all part of the "waah, we don't like it" mentality.  Every Norwich fan is concerned and hurting to see the club struggle but people like Jack Reeve who have a public profile ought to be a bit more careful about casting aspersions where there may not be any.

Get behind the manager. Be helpful to what he needs to do for the next match, not unhelpful. It is a Norwich match, we want them to win....we should want Daniel to win too. And if he wins on Saturday, then that is the start of a resurgence and improvement for this season. Stop the rumour mongering and trying to find division where there might not be - and if there are any conflicts - just remember Oliveira, the way Emi responded to being left out by buckling down and doing well, all down to Farke's firm handling of the situation. Farke is an excellent manager, we will only do worse if he goes.

Agree with every single word.

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I hate this 'who is out there, who can do a better job' argument. I hadn't heard of Alex Neil, Daniel Farke, I knew nothing of Lambert's coaching career. It's not my job to know the extensive web of European coaches, it's Webber's and I'm sure he has quite a few names ready. Who can do a better job? This could be the worst ever Prem team ever, I don't mean that as a sulky fan comment, I mean literally points, goal difference etc worse than Derby.

'Who would want to come here?' is another argument. The facilities are now top class, it will interest a lot more Managers than it did 4 years a go thats for sure. 

I'm not sure anyone could do worse, it's been an absolute disaster.

Edited by hertfordyellow
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Just to try to bring this thread back around to TNC, I'll have my say.

Firstly I don't think that there is any doubt that they are both good guys, talented in their media work, engaging and passionate about NCFC. Their channel has some of the more polished fan produced content that you will see in the country.

I thought the livestream work that they did was great during lockdowns and they've done good charitable work. Some of their best work has been their interviews with players and staff, demonstrating the ability to connect closely with the club. 

It is, however, notable at least to me that their interactions with the club itself have tailed off notably in the last 18 months. I suspect the pandemic to have had a significant influence on that, but we are still not seeing those player interviews etc that were a staple of the past. Who knows if there are reasons beyond the pandemic for that. But I do think it has diminished the channel somewhat because I don't know how much mileage there is in hearing the same people express similar opinions week after week.

I'm not particularly impressed with Jack's content over the recent several weeks. They've swung incredibly quickly from the reflected glory of the club's success with their HMS pi55 the league caps and celebratory streams to demanding the sacking of the manager. I've seen nothing in Jack's content in terms of what that sacking will actually achieve in the mid to longer term or how the abandonment of our hard-built model and principles will benefit the club going forward. I find his recent content knee-jerk and short-sighted.

But I think that's a mistake being made by many right now. This isn't a Webber or Farke issue, they are both talented, skilled and hard working people. We will be very hard pressed to get better. Much more likely is we will get worse. But our position isn't about that. It's a consequence of not having the finance to compete at this level. You can appoint whoever you like to the manager's chair but that fundamental fact will remain. And that is scary for all of us. Because it goes way beyond booting out a manager and expecting things to suddenly change. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

I hate this 'who is out there, who can do a better job' argument. I hadn't heard of Alex Neil, Daniel Farke, I knew nothing of Lambert's coaching career. It's not my job to know the extensive web of European coaches, it's Webber's and I'm sure he has quite a few names ready. Who can do a better job? This could be the worst ever Prem team ever, I don't mean that as a sulky fan comment, I mean literally points, goal difference etc worse than Derby.

'Who would want to come here?' is another argument. The facilities are now top class, it will interest a lot more Managers than it did 4 years a go thats for sure. 

I'm not sure anyone could do worse, it's been an absolute disaster.

That's all fine and well. But if it's Webber's job to decide whether or not someone better is out there, why don't we just leave it to him to make the decisions rather than demanding sackings? He may have concluded that DF is the best option, all things considered and with the longer term in mind.

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Cannot believe that Jack and Chris from TNC are not related!

Who’d have thought that two guys with exactly the same surname would end up on social media and forums spouting absolute ballsocks!

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I've found the little content I've seen of theirs to be incredibly reactionary, shallow and lacking in any meaningful nuance or insight - which isn't what I look for in punditry, professional or self-appointed..

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10 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

That's all fine and well. But if it's Webber's job to decide whether or not someone better is out there, why don't we just leave it to him to make the decisions rather than demanding sackings? He may have concluded that DF is the best option, all things considered and with the longer term in mind.

It's an opinion Beefy, I'm not outside Webber's house with a banner. If he has concluded that DF is the best option then good for him but it's a difficult one to argue with every performance that passes

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Who says Cantwell has fallen out with Farke?  For all we know the issues around Cantwell may be totally explainable and the way he is being managed correct. Likewise, who says there is a problem with Gilmour?  He is a squad member like all the others. So he's done well for scotland - so have Adam Idah and Omobamidele for Ireland and they are not picked much either. I don't suppose Cantwell or Gilmour are happy not being included, but we do have good players apart from them. Divisiveness is not helpful.

I get a bit fed up with people trying to see divides when there may not be there and when what we need is togetherness.  It's just part of people trying to get what they want - all part of the "waah, we don't like it" mentality.  Every Norwich fan is concerned and hurting to see the club struggle but people like Jack Reeve who have a public profile ought to be a bit more careful about casting aspersions where there may not be any.

Get behind the manager. Be helpful to what he needs to do for the next match, not unhelpful. It is a Norwich match, we want them to win....we should want Daniel to win too. And if he wins on Saturday, then that is the start of a resurgence and improvement for this season. Stop the rumour mongering and trying to find division where there might not be - and if there are any conflicts - just remember Oliveira, the way Emi responded to being left out by buckling down and doing well, all down to Farke's firm handling of the situation. Farke is an excellent manager, we will only do worse if he goes.

I usually applaud your positivity, LDC, but on this occasion, I think you're out with the faeries. Of course there is some kind of divide in the squad. Cantwell and Farke are giving different reasons for the player's absence: there is clearly a problem there. We play a CB at LB when we have two good LBs vieing for that position: it doesn't make sense. We give six starts to a new forward who seems unable to trap a ball, control a ball, pass a ball, or even put the ball into an empty net when the goalkeeper isn't there, and only one start to a much more highly talented recruit who misses a penalty he shouldn't have taken. On two different occasions we take off the same player at half time when he makes a bad mistake; another player who makes two equally bad mistakes is first on the team sheet every week. We have our only player whose preferred role is DM not even making the bench when we are desperate for a DM. We ignore a highly-rated young international who is keeping the guy who we play instead out of his international team. 

Something is badly wrong and everything points to splits in the camp. How can you argue it doesn't?

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1 minute ago, kirku said:

I've found the little content I've seen of theirs to be incredibly reactionary, shallow and lacking in any meaningful nuance or insight - which isn't what I look for in punditry, professional or self-appointed..

They are not pundits, they are fans who make entertainment for Youtube. The aim ultimately is to get clicks and reactionary bold statements get clicks. 

I haven't seen enough of their content to comment on nuance or insight. 

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4 hours ago, Petriix said:

That's fair. But do you think that would be enough for survival?

If not, do you not think that Farke would be the most likely to be able to repeat his success at Championship level?

I genuinely don’t think Farke would be most likely to repeat his success at championship level. His win rate there without Buendia over the last two promotion campaigns is about the same as his appalling win rate in the premier.

We won’t have Emi and we will most likely be coming in off the back of an appalling season. Lots of players will want out. How to play against us (and his tactics as well) has also been a bit exposed and the carrot of promotion possibly less attractive to all concerned. We ought to be competitive in that league but it will be very difficult. 

 

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6 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

It's an opinion Beefy, I'm not outside Webber's house with a banner. If he has concluded that DF is the best option then good for him but it's a difficult one to argue with every performance that passes

No probs, everyone can have their opinion.

But if one isn't in possession of many key facts, such as the availability of alternative managers, it just means that the opinion isn't of much value. 

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1 hour ago, Tumbleweed said:

Most people can see that, and it is actually because I think many still admire his Champs level achievements that they want him to go with dignity and not after a terminal and increasingly vitriolic decline. It would be a parting borne out of tough love not derision or scorn. Well at least at the moment it would be......

This

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1 minute ago, Beefy is a legend said:

No probs, everyone can have their opinion.

But if one isn't in possession of many key facts, such as the availability of alternative managers, it just means that the opinion isn't of much value. 

I hate this argument (see also “the manager is the only one who sees them in training” or “I think Farke knows more than the fans”).

we are (just about) a top flight football club who are known to be good to work for. It’s a premier league job. At worst next season it’s an upper end championship job. There will be loads of managers interested.

And the notion that fans seeing their team lose and get humiliated every week should just be quiet and now to the great god Webber who frankly is hugely culpable for that situation is also unrealistic. If anything, our fans should have been more vocal at the weekend in demanding change because the powers that be  at the club always take indifference and continued full attendance as an endorsement of what they are doing and only ever act when forced to having pushed the (very patient) fans over the edge.

just for once it would be nice if they were proactive snd took action before it’s too late and before it gets unpleasant.

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1 minute ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I'm not sure that 'we better sack him now cos in a few weeks the fans might boo' is any way to make sound business decisions.

If the club’s aim is to survive in the EPL, keeping Farke isn’t sound either. If your washing machine is making a funny noise, not getting the clothes clean and leaking water over the floor you don’t stick with it because it might suddenly come good, even if it worked fine in the past. You get shot of it and get another one because you need your laundry to be done!

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1 minute ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

If the club’s aim is to survive in the EPL, keeping Farke isn’t sound either. If your washing machine is making a funny noise, not getting the clothes clean and leaking water over the floor you don’t stick with it because it might suddenly come good, even if it worked fine in the past. You get shot of it and get another one because you need your laundry to be done!

After a 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in Farke's second season, you could have said something similar.

 

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Just now, Beefy is a legend said:

After a 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in Farke's second season, you could have said something similar.

 

That was a low point, sure. But he was still learning and we were at least playing decent football in the games leading up to it.

In the EPL we’ve got 48 games as evidence to show he simply isn’t up to it in this league. He has the worst stats of any top flight manager. Ever. He’s not just bad at this level, he’s the literal worst-performing manager the EPL has ever seen.

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4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I hate this argument (see also “the manager is the only one who sees them in training” or “I think Farke knows more than the fans”).

we are (just about) a top flight football club who are known to be good to work for. It’s a premier league job. At worst next season it’s an upper end championship job. There will be loads of managers interested.

And the notion that fans seeing their team lose and get humiliated every week should just be quiet and now to the great god Webber who frankly is hugely culpable for that situation is also unrealistic. If anything, our fans should have been more vocal at the weekend in demanding change because the powers that be  at the club always take indifference and continued full attendance as an endorsement of what they are doing and only ever act when forced to having pushed the (very patient) fans over the edge.

just for once it would be nice if they were proactive snd took action before it’s too late and before it gets unpleasant.

But that's not what I said Jim. I actually said everyone can have their opinion and express it how they like.

All I said is that some opinions have more weight than others. 

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2 hours ago, Yellow Green Army said:

Can’t stand listening to the guy and the tripe he spouts. His YouTube channel is ‘oh look at me’, look at how intelligent and intellectual I am. He’s about 12 years old and talks as if he’s watched Norwich for the last 30 years. Can’t take the guy seriously I’m afraid.

Like many his age, he has only lived through a time when most seasons have had something to play for. A good ten season stretch of boring dross will bring him back to reality.

Edited by ricardo
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1 minute ago, Beefy is a legend said:

After a 3-0 home defeat to Leeds in Farke's second season, you could have said something similar.

 

At that stage we didn’t have only 2 points from a possible 30 and a -22 goal difference.  

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Just now, Beefy is a legend said:

But that's not what I said Jim. I actually said everyone can have their opinion and express it how they like.

All I said is that some opinions have more weight than others. 

Your suggestion though is that fans should just leave it to Webber to make the decision and not voice their opinions though?

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4 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

If your washing machine is making a funny noise, not getting the clothes clean and leaking water over the floor you don’t stick with it because it might suddenly come good, even if it worked fine in the past.

What if that description is someone’s Mrs ? Asking for a friend obviously 😉

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4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Your suggestion though is that fans should just leave it to Webber to make the decision and not voice their opinions though?

Voice your opinion by all means. No problem.

But like it or not, Webber will make the decisions, and is better informed to make those decisions than anyone on this forum. 

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5 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I'm not sure that 'we better sack him now cos in a few weeks the fans might boo' is any way to make sound business decisions.

That's not what is being said. 

As I explained earlier in this thread, all but the most blinkered can see that the writing is on the wall. Farke has done tremendously well for the club, but he is completely out of his depth at Premier League level. John Gorman has a better win ratio than Farke and there are only about 10 managers with worse records than him.

The longer it takes the board to relieve him of his duties the more tarnished his legacy becomes. I for one do not want to see him hounded out of the club because the board allow a toxic atmosphere develop due to their inaction, with Farke being the sole recipient of the fan's ire. Unfortunately Smith and Jones are nothing if not predictable and will dither and procrastinate, until Farke's achievements are not what he is remembered for.

It seems our owners live for turning fans against club legends. See Gunn, Worthington, Adams and Neil. Farke will be the next one added to that list and frankly he deserves better.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

in terms of what that sacking will actually achieve in the mid to longer term or how the abandonment of our hard-built model and principles will benefit the club going forward. I find his recent content knee-jerk and short-sighted.

But I think that's a mistake being made by many right now. This isn't a Webber or Farke issue, they are both talented, skilled and hard working people. We will be very hard pressed to get better. Much more likely is we will get worse. But our position isn't about that. It's a consequence of not having the finance to compete at this level. You can appoint whoever you like to the manager's chair but that fundamental fact will remain. And that is scary for all of us. Because it goes way beyond booting out a manager and expecting things to suddenly change. 

I don't think many are calling for a full abandonment of the model or the project.

Or even deluded enough to believe that a new manager could keep us up.

We're just hoping that a fresh face will wipe the slate clean for a few players, a new manager might bring some fresh tactical ideas, and that a manager with the ability to man manage and motivate might put a bit of pride and passion into our performances, and ultimately help us avoid the completely f*cking disaster which we are sleepwalking towards.... which is beating various undesirable Premier League records. 

For me Farke can be rather quite flippant and reactionary when it comes to his own players, unbelievable that he's got two quality left backs and couldn't find space for either of them against Leeds. The way he ditched Gilmour after playing him out of position is ludicrious, he treatment of Giannoulis after the Man City game was ludicrious, and frankly at the moment it feels like somebody giving Cantwell a clean slate is the best chance we've got of scoring a few goals at the minute before Pukki loses all his confidence again like he did in the second half of our last Prem season.

Having Farke as our manager is a not a requisite to the continuation of the model, if it were then that would be a highly flawed model wouldn't it, any manager who has a record of showing willing to promote youth and successfully transition U23 players into first team players is suitable for our model, surely, and there might be one or two prospects who would benefit from a clean slate too.... Josh Martin, for me, looks more capable of conjuring up an assist than Placheta.

 

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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