Did Webber get lucky?

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Is Webber a genius hampered by his budget? Or did he just strike lucky in Pukki and Buendia?

I ask because it does currently seem as if we just wasted a massive amount of cash on players who have made us worse not better as a starting XI

[yellow_belly 226]

Yes. He is the Emperor’s New Clothes.

A very lucky boy rather than a footballing genius. His ego will move him on to pastures new / be his undoing.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The club has been very lucky in certain matters not just in recruitment. But I do think because of the amount of personnel he has recruited, he had to get some right. Apart from that, I doubt he is the special one.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

I dread to think how much he has shelled out on loan fees and wages for players who will be return to sender once we are relegated. Gilmour,Williams, Kabak and Normann will not have been cheap and will be gone in a flash at the end of the season.

Just remember what he said back in 2017 about us pi$$ing money up the wall.

[Petriix 2,834]

No. 

When you come in as an outsider you bring a fresh perspective. You can see what works and what doesn't and then take steps to change things. Webber set us moving in a new direction and deserves credit for his success.

However, once you're embedded in the paradigm you've created, it's very much more difficult to retain perspective. Fixing the things that aren't working becomes infinitely more difficult when they are your personal friends or the players and staff that you've personally signed.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, Petriix said:

No. 

When you come in as an outsider you bring a fresh perspective. You can see what works and what doesn't and then take steps to change things. Webber set us moving in a new direction and deserves credit for his success.

However, once you're embedded in the paradigm you've created, it's very much more difficult to retain perspective. Fixing the things that aren't working becomes infinitely more difficult when they are your personal friends or the players and staff that you've personally signed.

Well he is in the wrong job if he doesn't realise it is a cut throat business and decisions have to be made with the head not the heart.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Petriix said:

No. 

When you come in as an outsider you bring a fresh perspective. You can see what works and what doesn't and then take steps to change things. Webber set us moving in a new direction and deserves credit for his success.

However, once you're embedded in the paradigm you've created, it's very much more difficult to retain perspective. Fixing the things that aren't working becomes infinitely more difficult when they are your personal friends or the players and staff that you've personally signed.

Well put

[canarybubbles 1,915]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

The club has been very lucky in certain matters not just in recruitment. But I do think because of the amount of personnel he has recruited, he had to get some right. Apart from that, I doubt he is the special one.

Conversely, he had to get some wrong as well. I don't see how recruitment can ever become a science, no matter how much technology we devote to it because there's always the indefinable element of how the individuals recruited will gel as a group. And there's luck. Dumb luck.

[hogesar 9,658]

No

[Mellow Yellow 18]

7 hours ago, Petriix said:

No. 

When you come in as an outsider you bring a fresh perspective. You can see what works and what doesn't and then take steps to change things. Webber set us moving in a new direction and deserves credit for his success.

However, once you're embedded in the paradigm you've created, it's very much more difficult to retain perspective. Fixing the things that aren't working becomes infinitely more difficult when they are your personal friends or the players and staff that you've personally signed.

Good post mate

 

[Google Bot 3,275]

7 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I ask because it does currently seem as if we just wasted a massive amount of cash on players who have made us worse not better as a starting XI

2 league titles in 3 seasons can't be luck, it's a complete overhaul of players and management in that period. 

The only players pre-Webber that stand out are Howson and Maddison, for me.  It's been an improvement elsewhere.  This season he believed his own hype in uncovering diamonds, but took his eye off the short-term.   

I think his ability has been somewhat hampered with the desire to leave us with some long-lasting investments as he takes off at the end of the season.

[birchfest 397]

No. Nothing in football ever works 100%, that’s why we love it. Look at Man U and their signings, look at Ipswich buying up the league and flopping.

 

You sign 10 player, and if 2 are outstanding and 3 are good to average that’s a pretty high return.

[Uncle Fred 526]

He has certainly created the sins of the present which will take years to resolve 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, Uncle Fred said:

He has certainly created the sins of the present which will take years to resolve 

They look uncannily like the sins of the past.

 

[glory.win or die. 270]

Come back prudence.

[The Bunny 309]

I’ve been saying the same for a while. Webber had one amazing window and a few other good signings here and there, but his overall record, particularly in preparing the team for premier league seasons, has not been good. 

I think there was a complacency due to that first extremely successful transfer window. Webber assumed that he could repeat that success; he assumed (and said as much in interviews) that any of our star players were expendable and they could be easily be replaced with new stars.
 

Sometimes you just get lucky. It pays to realise that when it happens. I don’t think Webber did.

[king canary 7,604]

11 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

They look uncannily like the sins of the past.

 

How exactly? 

[Doomcaster 10]

Buendia = fantastic signing

Pukki = fantastic free

Krull  = fantastic free

Other than that is it average / poor signings

Webbers signings & loans this season are currently very very poor

Last time we got promoted - even Webber said his signings were poor - this season Webber has lost the plot

Way too many of Webbers signings, we have had to pay off their contracts as no club wants them

Webber - plus his hangers on, are well past their sell by date IMHO

OTBC

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Nah, Webber did quite well. A loud sub-section of fans suddenly thought he could walk on water and had unrealistic expectations of all transfers. Not to mention they only seem to focus on his work in the transfer market, when a Director of Football has far more on their plate than just that.

The radical improvement of Colney's facilities, likewise the improvement of a pathway for youth to thrive, are two fine examples of where Webber (and indeed Farke) have left a hopefully indelible mark for the better.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

i think he got a bit lucky and also made his own luck 

when he came in he had no money so it is a little easier in a way as only way is up and cutting costs is easier than spending massive money sometimes !! 

he did very well with cheaper signings 

Getting farke here was a master stroke 

 the fact we got up to the PL and did not spend any money 

that gave him a great start clearing debts and getting the club training sorted etc 

that put him in a Great Position 

[king canary 7,604]

59 minutes ago, Doomcaster said:

Buendia = fantastic signing

Pukki = fantastic free

Krull  = fantastic free

Other than that is it average / poor signings

What a load of ****.

Vrancic was an excellent signing in the Championship, Skipp was a game changer last season, Hanley and Gibson top level Championship defenders etc etc.

Yes the signings in the Premier League haven't been great (although how much of that lies with poor management isn't clear) but its sheer revisionist history to suggest those three are is his only signings better than average.

[hogesar 9,658]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

What a load of ****.

Vrancic was an excellent signing in the Championship, Skipp was a game changer last season, Hanley and Gibson top level Championship defenders etc etc.

Yes the signings in the Premier League haven't been great (although how much of that lies with poor management isn't clear) but its sheer revisionist history to suggest those three are is his only signings better than average.

This a million times over.

It's quite clear what's happening. When everything is going good on the pitch, then everything off the pitch must also be fantastic. If it's going wrong on the pitch, then every aspect of the club is terrible. I know that's what is likely happening with peoples mindsets because im guilty of it myself.

I'm not being funny, but for what we paid for them and what their job was, even the likes of Stiepermann, Leitner and Trybull were all very good signings. We still don't know about how good / bad the transfers this season really are so the only poor window we can really point to with definite fact is the first Premier League one, and as bad as it was at least Webber didn't cost us a fortune as he gambled on loan signings only.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

This a million times over.

It's quite clear what's happening. When everything is going good on the pitch, then everything off the pitch must also be fantastic. If it's going wrong on the pitch, then every aspect of the club is terrible. I know that's what is likely happening with peoples mindsets because im guilty of it myself.

I'm not being funny, but for what we paid for them and what their job was, even the likes of Stiepermann, Leitner and Trybull were all very good signings. We still don't know about how good / bad the transfers this season really are so the only poor window we can really point to with definite fact is the first Premier League one, and as bad as it was at least Webber didn't cost us a fortune as he gambled on loan signings only.

Can not really fault his championship signings at all 

i Think Hindsight is coming into it this season for me ( it is easy to say not do ) 

he tried to buy up and coming players to sell on for profit maybe not what the club needed this Season to help us stay up 

but it looks like a couple of seasoned PL Players with experience is what we needed (hindsight again )

instead of signing the two wingers and Sargent a DM and a more seasoned striker would have done 

i do not know the clubs plans or Webbers thinking 

it is a lot harder gambling with larger transfers 

if he signed a player for 300k or even 2 million some work so dont but when you splash 7,8,9,10 mil they have to work and with us they have to work now 

i honestly believe a different Head coach is needed to take a fresh look at these players find a system then all is not lost ,

At the moment they are not playing to their full Potential and looking like expensive players that we will not make money on 

 

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

For those people asking whether everything good that has happened under Webber was lucky, imagine how you'd react if someone posited that everything bad that has happened was entirely down to bad luck. How stupid a thing would that be to think?

[king canary 7,604]

9 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

he tried to buy up and coming players to sell on for profit maybe not what the club needed this Season to help us stay up 

but it looks like a couple of seasoned PL Players with experience is what we needed (hindsight again )

I think this is almost impossible on our budget though.

We clearly did try for Josh King but wages priced us out. 

The club has to focus on younger signings with resale value as signing established, expensive players is the kind of thing that got us into trouble under McNally- Jarvis and Naismith both reportedly earning top level wages while contributing absolutely nothing and proving impossible to shift due to those wages. 

Take Sissoko who went to Watford- he cost somewhere between £3-5m depending on where you look but is reportedly on wages of £80k p/w. Even just over a two year contract he's going to be earning £8m across his time at Watford and I doubt he's signed with a big relegation wage drop. 

[norfolkngood 1,086]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think this is almost impossible on our budget though.

We clearly did try for Josh King but wages priced us out. 

The club has to focus on younger signings with resale value as signing established, expensive players is the kind of thing that got us into trouble under McNally- Jarvis and Naismith both reportedly earning top level wages while contributing absolutely nothing and proving impossible to shift due to those wages. 

Take Sissoko who went to Watford- he cost somewhere between £3-5m depending on where you look but is reportedly on wages of £80k p/w. Even just over a two year contract he's going to be earning £8m across his time at Watford and I doubt he's signed with a big relegation wage drop. 

Good Point and Hindsight is wonderful 

the point i was trying to make the bigger the fee the bigger the gamble what fans expect from a 10 million player  goes through the roof 

when you are signing players at 1 million it is not like that everybody knows it is a gamble thats why he was a million

how much is Sargent worth now ? maybe 5 to 6 million ? if anyone would want him 

it is going to take some doing to get a profit from sargent  

[Google Bot 3,275]

17 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think this is almost impossible on our budget though

We set the budget, it's not provided to us. 

The option was always there to tailor the budget to invest in fewer players of quality, but he took the option to buy future investments with a secondary hope that they could deliver this season.  The pile of money is the same, regardless.

However, investments are more secure against lesser quantity of proven players.  Even though wage demands are greater, you're not stuck with them due to large devaluation like we could be with Sargent etc.

Bringing in quality also elevates the younger players.  We had a potential 30m Max Aarons last season, he's looking ~15m right now, if that.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Google Bot

[king canary 7,604]

2 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

However, investments are more secure against lesser quantity of proven players.  Even though wage demands are greater, you're not stuck with them due to large devaluation like we could be with Sargent etc.

This just isn't true in my view. When we bought in more expensive 'proven' players on higher wages under Neil they suffered huge devaluation. Age and potential for growth is the factor that drives value. Unless Sargent is a disaster in the Championship I don't think his value falls off a cliff. But with players like Naismith, Klose, Jarvis, all signed in their 'prime' years with proven records at the top flight, we basically couldn't give them away a couple of years later. 

[AJ 1,218]

The reality is it is a lot harder to build a successful Premier League squad than it is a Championship one. 

Farke and Webber aced the Championship TWICE, there is no coincidence in that, but so far the formula just isn't work for the PL. Buying cheap, young hungry players with a mix of journeymen experience players will only get you so far. We signed absolutely nobody with genuine PL experience, apart from two kids in Gilmore and Williams, and that lack of experience is one of the reasons we are struggling. Take Kabak at the weekend, you won't see many PL calibre CB's going walkies like that in dangerous positions.

[king canary 7,604]

Just now, AJ said:

The reality is it is a lot harder to build a successful Premier League squad than it is a Championship one. 

Farke and Webber aced the Championship TWICE, there is no coincidence in that, but so far the formula just isn't work for the PL. Buying cheap, young hungry players with a mix of journeymen experience players will only get you so far. We signed absolutely nobody with genuine PL experience, apart from two kids in Gilmore and Williams, and that lack of experience is one of the reasons we are struggling. Take Kabak at the weekend, you won't see many PL calibre CB's going walkies like that in dangerous positions.

Kabak has more Premier League experience than Gilmour...