Remember What Webber Said When He Walked In The Door.

[TIL 1010 4,737]

He very vociferously castigated the McNally regime accusing them of ' Pi$$ing up the wall ' £100 million of Premier League money . Yes he was right and like McNally was a breath of fresh air when he arrived however we all know that the last year of so of McNally was a disaster. The club needed McNally back in 2009and likewise we needed Webber in 2017 but in my book we are now at a stage where history is repeating itself.

The blunt assessment made by Webber could well be biting him on the ar$e.

Remember many fans could see no wrong in McNally until he had gone. His signings have been underwhelming this summer and at great expense by our standards and by blaming fans to a certain degree which now seems to be his latest approach to our shortcomings unfortunately it is all heading in the wrong direction.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

Remember when he scoffed at the idea of signing relegated Premier League players in the 2019 summer?

Well, apparently relegated Bundesliga players is a completely different kettle of fish.

I don't think he's got the tools to establish a team in the Premier League. For me, more blame for this season's farce rests with him than Herr Farke. He's started to believe his own hype.

[RobertRosariosBeefTomatoes 31]

Norwich Fans - We don't spend any money

Also Norwich Fans - We spend too much money

We can't buy established premier league players so the club have to take risks. 

[essex canary 495]

5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

He very vociferously castigated the McNally regime accusing them of ' Pi$$ing up the wall ' £100 million of Premier League money . Yes he was right and like McNally was a breath of fresh air when he arrived however we all know that the last year of so of McNally was a disaster. The club needed McNally back in 2009and likewise we needed Webber in 2017 but in my book we are now at a stage where history is repeating itself.

The blunt assessment made by Webber could well be biting him on the ar$e.

Remember many fans could see no wrong in McNally until he had gone. His signings have been underwhelming this summer and at great expense by our standards and by blaming fans to a certain degree which now seems to be his latest approach to our shortcomings unfortunately it is all heading in the wrong direction.

 

Bang on Tilley.

I guess Lakey was posting 6 years ago about McNally's shortcomings?

[Worthy Nigelton 1,043]

Agree with all of this. He's a fraud. Farke has made him look good at a certain level but is unable to do it at the top table. Time to go Stuart.

[TIL 1010 4,737]

3 hours ago, essex canary said:

 

I guess Lakey was posting 6 years ago about McNally's shortcomings?

Nobody was in fairness to him. McNally had blinded a lot of people rather like Webber.

[Indy 3,297]

Funny enough I’ve just posted this on a different thread, but more relative on this one Til. Tend to agree with you.

 

The reality is we all knew Cantwell, Aarons & Buendia were in the shop window, the club made a point of telling us pretty much so, so no surprise to sell at least one of them, especially with Covid shortfall, I’m sure if Cantwell had an offer on the table he’d have gone too.

Thats our lot as a club and we did buy some decent prospects who unfortunately haven’t made a very big step up to the premiership level. Not to write them off yet. Without Buendia money there would be no Tzolis, Rashica or Sargent. I’m happy with that, it’s what Webber had to do. Webber as chief decided that Ajer wasn’t worth the additional money Celtic wanted and Kings wages at £45k was outside what we wanted to pay for him. That’s his decision, he chose to buy future stars with potential to sell at a profit, the gamble.

I for one can’t grumble, he’s been very good, some hits some misses as any director of football would have, but we have moved on in the 5 years he’s been here and Farke has been amazing too.

The rest of the squad is made up of nearly premiership players, the likes of Hanley, Gibson, Byram, nowhere near premiership players, the likes of Lees-Melou, Maclean, Rupp, Dowell, Hernandez, Placheta, the youngsters who could well be in future, Aarons, Omobamdele, Idah, Cantwell and then the new guys to the table who all are still to be fully assessed.

So Farke really has a limited player pool, he’s tried to make us more solid by changing it up, but it’s just made us more disjointed all over the park, the fact Cantwell for whatever reason isn’t playing certainly doesn’t help, he was outstanding for us pre Covid shut down in the premiership, could certainly have been this season too.

So back to the topic, why now is the question, why would Webber need to try and blame Buendia for this ten game disaster? Given the time, budget and support why are we so bloody ****? For me it has to be at Webbers door, he’s pulling all the strings, he’s the one spent the budget, he’s given Farke the extension on his contract and possibly the wrong tools for the premiership this time round. For me Webber has a massive negative against him, criticism of the club by all media has not gone down well and as he’s leaving in the summer it puts a question mark over him for future employment at a higher level than Norwich. I don’t think there’s a club in the top flight who would want him at the moment. His treatment of loan players, his lack of leadership, his indecision on sacking Farke and last his negative comments towards the paying fans.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,135]

He also criticized the idea of managers bringing their mates in to work around them when he's done exactly the same thing in technical roles, it's all people he's worked with before. He critisized them for only having one LB, something we had to put up with for much of last season, he criticized them for overstocking one position and neglecting other important positions and he's filled the team with attacking players and not signed a DM, he said coaches need to be easily replaceable should the need arise but he has made Farke and his team indispensable without major upheaval etc

 

I think it's down to him being in too much of a bubble and the ethos of the club being too insular to the point he's lost sight of some of the core principals he once believed in. 

[yellowrider120 761]

3 hours ago, RobertRosariosBeefTomatoes said:

Norwich Fans - We don't spend any money

Also Norwich Fans - We spend too much money

We can't buy established premier league players so the club have to take risks. 

but Everton praid just £1.5M in transfer fees on Grey and Townsend who have scored seven goals already between them. How much have our entire team scored? Yes they would have shelled out probably hefty signing on fees and are paying higher wages but we have committed contractually it seems to something like £18M for two players who play in the same position! If you do even approx. maths, the Everton outlay is likely to be lower than ours for about three years. 

[The Bristol Nest 513]

Don't be surprised if Webber signs a contract extension in the next few weeks.

I would not be disappointed. He has transformed us into a modern club with update to date training facilities etc. 

Going straight back up after relegation just highlights the gulf between the leagues. Look at the top of the championship currently.

To compete we could look at Brentford who are also using our approach of not bankrupting their club. That may well be down to their footballing philosophy being more effective at this level so far.

The alternative to a sustainable business model is an unsustainable one.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

3 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

He very vociferously castigated the McNally regime accusing them of ' Pi$$ing up the wall ' £100 million of Premier League money . Yes he was right and like McNally was a breath of fresh air when he arrived however we all know that the last year of so of McNally was a disaster. The club needed McNally back in 2009and likewise we needed Webber in 2017 but in my book we are now at a stage where history is repeating itself.

The blunt assessment made by Webber could well be biting him on the ar$e.

Remember many fans could see no wrong in McNally until he had gone. His signings have been underwhelming this summer and at great expense by our standards and by blaming fans to a certain degree which now seems to be his latest approach to our shortcomings unfortunately it is all heading in the wrong direction.

 

 

 it looks like when a club is on its knees he is the right man 

he has done a fantastic job up until he had money to really spend thats where it has all gone wrong 

the signings look very Expensive for what they are and i can see No profit from any of them ,

 

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

This from Webber in the athletic, would still be happy to stay him say to be honest, despite this window seemingly a disaster: 

Then there was the subject of retaining people — perhaps most notably Webber himself, as he was once again asked about his situation, with his current contract expiring next June. This time, his answer was different.

“No (update) but I think it will be sorted very soon. Within the next month. We’ve got an international break in November and all I’ll say to people at the minute is, internally, it’s not an issue. If it is externally, I can’t control that.”

[lake district canary 4,531]

8 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

but Everton praid just £1.5M in transfer fees on Grey and Townsend who have scored seven goals already between them. How much have our entire team scored? Yes they would have shelled out probably hefty signing on fees and are paying higher wages but we have committed contractually it seems to something like £18M for two players who play in the same position! If you do even approx. maths, the Everton outlay is likely to be lower than ours for about three years. 

One word. Wages. We can't compete with Everton for wages.

[king canary 7,599]

2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

This from Webber in the athletic, would still be happy to stay him say to be honest, despite this window seemingly a disaster: 

Then there was the subject of retaining people — perhaps most notably Webber himself, as he was once again asked about his situation, with his current contract expiring next June. This time, his answer was different.

“No (update) but I think it will be sorted very soon. Within the next month. We’ve got an international break in November and all I’ll say to people at the minute is, internally, it’s not an issue. If it is externally, I can’t control that.”

Short term the window doesn't look great. But whether its a disaster likely won't be clear for a couple of years. If Tzolis, for example, thrives in the Championship he could become another £30m+ player, same with Rashica even.

[A Load of Squit 5,160]

And when we did try and compete with the likes of Everton for wages we ended up Pi$$ing up the wall ' £100 million of Premier League money.

[hogesar 9,657]

I think the big differences between McNally and Webber are going to be:

- Webber's leaving behind a legacy which has seen significant infrastructure improvements. Colney is unrecognisable from when McNally was here.

- Kind of linked, but the influx of young players into our academy with the structure and facilities to enable them to thrive puts us in a good position for years beyond Webbers time here.

- Webber has generally signed young players who may well have high re-sale potential in the future. He's not spent it all on the likes of Klose or Naismith in the latter parts of their career who were unlikely to ever increase in value. We don't yet know how financially this window will effect us either positively or negatively.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

One word. Wages. We can't compete with Everton for wages.

Yes we can we chose not to.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Yes we can we chose not to.

No we don't have that kind of money - you pay one player massive amounts you have to pay more of them massive amounts too.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

Short term the window doesn't look great. But whether its a disaster likely won't be clear for a couple of years. If Tzolis, for example, thrives in the Championship he could become another £30m+ player, same with Rashica even.

i think the club would earn more if we had signed players that would be ready for this season in the PL 

Another year of sky money would have been better than 20mil profit on one 

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

If you look at Webbers signings in the last two windows only Normann, who won't be with us next season looks a premiership player.

They have been awful. I hop[e we look to replace him at the end of the season. Time is up, go elsewhere & insult their fans.

[king canary 7,599]

5 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i think the club would earn more if we had signed players that would be ready for this season in the PL 

Another year of sky money would have been better than 20mil profit on one 

 

What we don't know though, is are these players better than we've seen due to poor management.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

7 minutes ago, king canary said:

Short term the window doesn't look great. But whether its a disaster likely won't be clear for a couple of years. If Tzolis, for example, thrives in the Championship he could become another £30m+ player, same with Rashica even.

Yep I'd go with that - certainly what is looking like a disaster for this season but could easily change next year. 

However, what I'm really fearing at the minute is a max exodus of players not wanting to stay to fight for us in the champs. The mood is simply so low right now, we surely can't negotiate 28 more games this out of favour, can we? But if we do, then who would really want to stay and fight for us after that? What would they be building towards? And similarly who with premier league aspirations is going to want to come to a club which has just been a total laughing stock? 

That said, I'm sure the agent speak with players behind the scenes is much more amicable than the hysteria we see in the national media - but even so its really hard to see us as an attractive proposition. We are carrying some deep mental scars (almost England-esque) which may continue to haunt us for the foreseeable future. It could take years to set free of it.

[hogesar 9,657]

10 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i think the club would earn more if we had signed players that would be ready for this season in the PL 

Another year of sky money would have been better than 20mil profit on one 

 

It comes down to risk though, doesn't it? We could have over-spent on signing some genuine Premier League players and the wages that go with them, but the reality is we still would have been one of the favourites for relegation and have to surpass expectations. 

I guess what I'm saying is Webber probably feels he's played it a little safer by purchasing highly sought young players who wouldn't have signed for us in the Championship nor would we have had the money to do so, but who could genuinely increase in value and not be a burden on us in terms of their contract for the foreseeable, should we get relegated.

There's a fair argument that was the wrong decision to make on a footballing level considering our measly 2 points so far. We don't know if we'd still have underperformed with Prem players because no-one can say for sure if it's our players or the coach who's at fault. Had it been Farke and we still got relegated, even if it was with 30 odd points, we could have tied ourselves financially with those Premier League contracts.

It's the real difference rich owners make - covering those risks or making those risks less...risky.

[Ian 1,129]

3 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

He very vociferously castigated the McNally regime accusing them of ' Pi$$ing up the wall ' £100 million of Premier League money . Yes he was right and like McNally was a breath of fresh air when he arrived however we all know that the last year of so of McNally was a disaster. The club needed McNally back in 2009and likewise we needed Webber in 2017 but in my book we are now at a stage where history is repeating itself.

The blunt assessment made by Webber could well be biting him on the ar$e.

Remember many fans could see no wrong in McNally until he had gone. His signings have been underwhelming this summer and at great expense by our standards and by blaming fans to a certain degree which now seems to be his latest approach to our shortcomings unfortunately it is all heading in the wrong direction.

 

No doubt the jury is more than out with regards to recruitment for the Premiership, but my question to you Tilly would be what more do you think Webber could have achieved in his relatively short time here?

This is a stupidly tough division, and we are miles behind everyone else financially, so in some ways Webber is without question a victim of his own success.

[A Load of Squit 5,160]

I can't see anyone at the club who would make the same choice as we did in Jan 2016, saying we should gamble by spending on the prospect of staying in the league and recovering by having another year of Premier money isn't in their thoughts.

 

[ged in the onion bag 855]

35 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

Don't be surprised if Webber signs a contract extension in the next few weeks.

I would not be disappointed. He has transformed us into a modern club with update to date training facilities etc. 

Going straight back up after relegation just highlights the gulf between the leagues. Look at the top of the championship currently.

To compete we could look at Brentford who are also using our approach of not bankrupting their club. That may well be down to their footballing philosophy being more effective at this level so far.

The alternative to a sustainable business model is an unsustainable one.

Agree with this and Brentford we’re fortunate to keep their team together, introduce some good additions keep there style of play.    They also had a less affected pre-season and easier start.   We lost Buendia and Skipp, our best two players, the replacements aren’t ready, certainly not as effective.      
 

Significant differences!

[TheGunnShow 5,937]

30 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think the big differences between McNally and Webber are going to be:

- Webber's leaving behind a legacy which has seen significant infrastructure improvements. Colney is unrecognisable from when McNally was here.

- Kind of linked, but the influx of young players into our academy with the structure and facilities to enable them to thrive puts us in a good position for years beyond Webbers time here.

- Webber has generally signed young players who may well have high re-sale potential in the future. He's not spent it all on the likes of Klose or Naismith in the latter parts of their career who were unlikely to ever increase in value. We don't yet know how financially this window will effect us either positively or negatively.

This. Webber's transfer record for the top flight is certainly looking pretty patchy, but off the pitch it's a huge difference compared to four years ago.

[king canary 7,599]

4 minutes ago, Ian said:

No doubt the jury is more than out with regards to recruitment for the Premiership, but my question to you Tilly would be what more do you think Webber could have achieved in his relatively short time here?

This is a stupidly tough division, and we are miles behind everyone else financially, so in some ways Webber is without question a victim of his own success.

I think 'a victim of his own success' is a very fair summary.

The transfers in his first two seasons were insane- Vrancic, Trybull, Stipermann, Zimmerman, Buendia, Pukki, Krul, Mclean, Leitner, Hanley, all key players in a promotion tilt, some in two promotion tilts. Even last summer- Gibson, Giannoulis, Skipp, Dowell all played a huge role in our promotion. 

Two years ago he went down the wrong route in my opinion- a focus on loans with zero chance of going up in value unless we stayed up. This season Tzolis, Rashica, Sargent, Giannoulis all likely have resale value over a longer term and could be sold for more than we paid for. 

[Davidlingfield 63]

The problem is not necessarily Webber himself but the structure at the Club.

There is no CEO or Chairperson to challenge any of his decisions, most importantly signings made after a promotion.

Without this challenge, he has free reign to back his judgement which is at best questionable at Premier League level, he is completely left to his own devices.

Organisations both inside and outside of football generally have a CEO AND Chairperson for a reason - to ensure a level of control and challenge so that “loose cannons” don’t go off and do their own thing.

Until the structural issues are addressed, whether it is Webber or someone else, the problems will remain and probably worsen.

[king canary 7,599]

32 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think the big differences between McNally and Webber are going to be:

- Webber's leaving behind a legacy which has seen significant infrastructure improvements. Colney is unrecognisable from when McNally was here.

- Kind of linked, but the influx of young players into our academy with the structure and facilities to enable them to thrive puts us in a good position for years beyond Webbers time here.

- Webber has generally signed young players who may well have high re-sale potential in the future. He's not spent it all on the likes of Klose or Naismith in the latter parts of their career who were unlikely to ever increase in value. We don't yet know how financially this window will effect us either positively or negatively.

This. I think people get tunnel vision and think Webbers job is just transfers, when it is so much more than that.

For me, the make or break is what happens with Farke and any potential replacements. As far as I know the only managerial change he's been involved in was Powell being sacked and replaced with Wagner at Huddersfield. So the ability to appoint a manager who doesn't come straight from Dortmund's reserves might be an interesting test.