Jimbo1 16 Posted October 29, 2021 Is it the pre-season worldies? Is it the double-barrelled surname? Or is he just the pick of a bad bunch? Everywhere I look he seems to be at the heart of every fans “preferred midfield” and I’m struggling to understand the Lees-Melou love-in. IMO he’s weak in the challenge, poor positionally, looks uncomfortable picking up the ball in tight spaces, and rarely looks to drive forward with the ball. Jack of all trades, master of none comes to mind. What are Tettey and Mario up to these days? Both were far superior players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coneys Knee 932 Posted October 29, 2021 I agree. Makes me pine for Vrancic who we gave away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Petriix 2,821 Posted October 29, 2021 I think you're doing a disservice to his tackling. But his positioning has been awful at times. I'm unclear, however, whether this is more a symptom of the system than the player. It's basically impossible to do the attacking job he's trying to do in the absence of any attacking midfielders in front of him while also maintaining the positional discipline required. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,655 Posted October 29, 2021 I thought he looked good vs Brighton? ...there are however other midfielders who proved they werent good enough for this league 2 seasons ago and again this who the manager persists with playing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Branston Pickle 3,598 Posted October 29, 2021 15 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said: I agree. Makes me pine for Vrancic who we gave away. No chance - PLM may not be PL but Mario definitely wasn’t. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo1 16 Posted October 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, Petriix said: I think you're doing a disservice to his tackling. But his positioning has been awful at times. I'm unclear, however, whether this is more a symptom of the system than the player. It's basically impossible to do the attacking job he's trying to do in the absence of any attacking midfielders in front of him while also maintaining the positional discipline required. Personally I struggle to see what system would suit him? As the attacking midfielder in a 4-2-3-1? Not for me. He’s like a poor mans Leroy Fer. Good physical attributes but in reality just average (at best) at everything, strolling through games offering very little 99% of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo1 16 Posted October 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said: No chance - PLM may not be PL but Mario definitely wasn’t. Mario still would’ve offered more than PLM. At least Mario was comfortable in possession when teams came and pressed us high. PLM looks like he would rather not have the ball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon Bennett 768 Posted October 29, 2021 Impossible to say after eight games. Like all of our new players though until we start winning some football matches none of them will be deemed good enough. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coneys Knee 932 Posted October 29, 2021 22 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said: No chance - PLM may not be PL but Mario definitely wasn’t. I’m not saying he was but I’d still rather have him than PLM based on what I’ve seen so far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,338 Posted October 29, 2021 Start with 4-2-3-1 and he wouldn't IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,497 Posted October 29, 2021 Hes been our best midfielder statistically, who's actually played more than a couple of games. I may be getting this wrong but he generally looks good to me for 60 minutes then seems to tire and that's where he's caught out of possession. In terms of a midfielder that presses and wins the ball he is probably the best we have. I'm not sure he would suit sitting alongside Normann in a 2 though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry53 197 Posted October 29, 2021 Maybe Sorensen would be just as good....or better? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobJames 824 Posted October 29, 2021 10 minutes ago, Harry53 said: Maybe Sorensen would be just as good....or better? Whats happened to Sorensen ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Commonsense 597 Posted October 29, 2021 54 minutes ago, RobJames said: Whats happened to Sorensen ? Perhaps we need (another) thread on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,232 Posted October 30, 2021 Lees Melou isn’t alone, McClean isn’t anywhere near good enough, but they’re the preferred players so Farke will fall on his choices this weekend! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,327 Posted October 30, 2021 Which of our players are premier league standard? The tactics have been so bad that I think singling out individual members of the playing staff is futile. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,232 Posted October 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said: Which of our players are premier league standard? The tactics have been so bad that I think singling out individual members of the playing staff is futile. Not really TVB, we have seen enough of them to form an opinion and I agree both LM & McClean aren’t performing anywhere near to premiership level, Normann just about, but it’s a squad game and if players don’t perform then others need to be given a chance. So back to a 4-2-3-1 with Normann & Sorensen for me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow and Green 334 Posted October 30, 2021 7 hours ago, Petriix said: I think you're doing a disservice to his tackling. But his positioning has been awful at times. I'm unclear, however, whether this is more a symptom of the system than the player. It's basically impossible to do the attacking job he's trying to do in the absence of any attacking midfielders in front of him while also maintaining the positional discipline required. I think it's the system. Our midfield are playing as a triangle, with Normann (previously Gilmour) laying deep. The problem with this is they're all too far apart from each other and it creates space. We would be more effective playing as a flat three, as we would be more compact, they wouod be able to press as a pack and they would be able to cover the flanks more easily. Attacking wise - most starkly vs Chelsea - there is too much space between the midfield and the attack. The length of the passes made it easy for the opposition's defenders to read/intercept the ball. Even if Sargent/Pukki do manage to hold it up, they're often too isolated to do anything with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) None of our Summer signings strike me as quite up to the standards required to be a consistent Premier League performer. Perhaps that is unfair on Kabak who has some decent history of involvement with Liverpool and Norman who doesn't seem far adrift at times. We have to allow for the "settling in" period, particularly with one so young as Tzolis, who is abroad for the first time. Sargent, Rachida and Lees-Melou have shown enough to make up a more than decent Championship side, but in reality little more. Perhaps they need more games. Perhaps the Chelsea drubbing will prove to be a turning point. It would be slightly premature to suggest that our two young loanees have yet arrived at the consistent level required, although they are clearly destined to achieve this one day. Sadly it seems more obvious than for our boys. We need a prolific goal-getter in January and have to hope that Farke manages to solve the defensive midfield conundrum asap. On the subject of Premier League standard players we need also look at some of our old boys. Of course I like Kenny McLean, who doesn't? However, his involvement has become monotonous and predictable to the extent that I feel he epitomises our yo-yo status. Same old, same old and something to do with glass ceilings. We were led to expect more this season. Is it too late already? Selling him (and Rupp too?) to an ambitious Championship side with decent money while their stocks are high could help fund one new pair of much-needed fresh legs in those vital midfield areas, but imagination is running overtime here. Edited October 30, 2021 by BroadstairsR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yellow_belly 226 Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) Poor old PLM is a bog standard lower championship player. Invisible most of the time. No better than Tom Trybull. Weak in the tackle, slow of feet / mind and no flair on the ball. I think his unremarkable career in France is a true reflection of his ability. Could be solid / honest for us in the championship… similar to Rupp. Nothing spectacular. Report Grade C- Edited October 30, 2021 by yellow_belly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
non-scoring strikers 111 Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said: On the subject of Premier League standard players we need also look at some of our old boys. Of course I like Kenny McClean, who doesn't? However, his involvement has become monotonous and predictable to the extent that I feel he epitomises our yo-yo status. Same old, same old. We were led to expect more this season. Is it too late already? Selling him (and Rupp too?) to an ambitious Championship side with decent money while their stocks are high could help fund one new pair of much-needed fresh legs in those vital midfield areas, but imagination is running overtime here. I don't. He's dreadful. He epitomises the lack of ambition or even broader football knowledge of our support. Much like those who still think Bradley Johnson was our best player for four years. This opens up a wider criticism of our support... A large percentage of us are so used to playing lower level football that we've come to accept ourselves as a little club who should be thankful that we have lower league cloggers like McLean. This is something I don't accept and never will. Were better than this and need to start showing it through all levels of the club. Edited October 30, 2021 by non-scoring strikers 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Greenthumb 742 Posted October 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, yellow_belly said: Poor old PLM is a bog standard lower championship player. Invisible most of the time. No better than Tom Trybull. Weak in the tackle, slow of feet / mind and no flair on the ball. I think his unremarkable career in France is a true reflection of his ability. Could be solid / honest for us in the championship… similar to Rupp. Nothing spectacular. Report Grade C- You’ve just described Kenny Mclean 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted October 30, 2021 (edited) I would never say that Kenny McLean has been a bad signing for our club. He has managed to have some excellent moments in the yellow, even at PL level (Man. City game last season?) and has been instrumental in our famed Championship campaigns. No point in going OTT about a player who would be welcomed at most Championship clubs, imo. We are not Man. City either. Like I said though, "glass ceiling" and all that. Edited October 30, 2021 by BroadstairsR 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Greenthumb 742 Posted October 30, 2021 18 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said: I would never say that Kenny McLean has been a bad signing for our club. He has managed to have some excellent moments in the yellow, even at PL level (Man. City game last season?) and has been instrumental in our famed Championship campaigns. No point in going OTT about a player who would be welcomed at most Championship clubs, imo. We are not Man. City either. Like I said though, "glass ceiling" and all that. He’s a good championship player, yes. I can think of one of other good game he had in the prem (Everton Away). Name me another. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,655 Posted October 30, 2021 5 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: Which of our players are premier league standard? The tactics have been so bad that I think singling out individual members of the playing staff is futile. Gilmour is The fact that we apparantly cant find a place for him in THIS team is a failing by our coaches Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,497 Posted October 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said: He’s a good championship player, yes. I can think of one of other good game he had in the prem (Everton Away). Name me another. Excellent Man City at home too, including a goal. He was our 5th statistically best player in our prem season, highest out of all our central midfielders that season. Of course, doesn't automatically make him prem standard but he was the closest we had last time in this league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Greenthumb 742 Posted October 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, hogesar said: Excellent Man City at home too, including a goal. He was our 5th statistically best player in our prem season, highest out of all our central midfielders that season. Of course, doesn't automatically make him prem standard but he was the closest we had last time in this league. The previous poster had already said Man City. He’s a good champs player, but that’s all. Lees Melou and Kenny shouldn’t be in the same midfield, but we do need one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Petriix 2,821 Posted October 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Yellow and Green said: I think it's the system. Our midfield are playing as a triangle, with Normann (previously Gilmour) laying deep. The problem with this is they're all too far apart from each other and it creates space. We would be more effective playing as a flat three, as we would be more compact, they wouod be able to press as a pack and they would be able to cover the flanks more easily. Attacking wise - most starkly vs Chelsea - there is too much space between the midfield and the attack. The length of the passes made it easy for the opposition's defenders to read/intercept the ball. Even if Sargent/Pukki do manage to hold it up, they're often too isolated to do anything with it. While it's true that any three points not perfectly aligned will form a triangle, I'd say that would be a generous description of our midfield three. 'Triangle' implies that there's some kind of structure and system to their movement. Maybe 'rabble' is too harsh? A flat midfield three pressing as a pack certainly wouldn't solve the problem that keeps leading to the concession of goals. What we're lacking is the positional discipline to prevent opposition overloads in the dangerous area in front of the defence. It's my firm belief that the midfield system is fundamentally broken because it requires too diverse a range of responsibilities from the players in those roles. They are somehow expected to get forward to support the front 2, support the wingbacks in both attack and defence and screen the back 3. That is an impossible combination and consistently leads to being caught out of position. The solution is to simply separate out the roles: two holding central midfielders who don't vacate that area, two wide attacking midfielders who diligently track back on the wings, and one central attacking midfielder who drops back centrally when we lose the ball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,089 Posted October 30, 2021 2 hours ago, yellow_belly said: Poor old PLM is a bog standard lower championship player. Invisible most of the time. No better than Tom Trybull. Weak in the tackle, slow of feet / mind and no flair on the ball. I think his unremarkable career in France is a true reflection of his ability. Could be solid / honest for us in the championship… similar to Rupp. Nothing spectacular. Report Grade C- Fair assessment tbh. Did well to win the penalty against Leicester, reasonable against Brighton but that's about it. He's had a bit of gametime as well so that's no excuse. Unfortunately that midfield trio of Normann, McLean and PLM is the worst we've seen for some time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,290 Posted October 30, 2021 For me he’s an ok squad player at this level. Capable of filling in in a number of midfield roles but shouldn’t be regularly starting. The same applies to Rupp and you could argue the same with Kenny although I think in the right midfield he could step up. We really need to get Gilmour back in the team. Him with Normann has some class about it although the absence of a genuine defensive midfielder is still a concern. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites