No need for a holding midfielder is there Dan & Stu

[Jim Smith 2,317]

 

This was Chelsea’s 4th goal. Not really a counter attack as I recall. We are playing 5 at the back snd 3 in midfield (supposedly).

Chilwell at the top ends up scoring without any sort of challenge being made by anyone. It’s just shambolic.

[Petriix 2,835]

It perfectly demonstrates my issue with the 3 man midfield. No positional discipline.

The other thing to note is that Chelsea have committed 7 players forwards. They can do this because we're so unthreatening with just 2 attacking players on the pitch.

[Google Bot 3,275]

Just now, Petriix said:

The other thing to note is that Chelsea have committed 7 players forwards. They can do this because we're so unthreatening with just 2 attacking players on the pitch.

Yup, that's the problem all season - we don't make other teams consider what we can do to them if they commit.

There's a reason Brentford had a stronger Chelsea on the ropes whereas we sat back and watched them play.  Totally pathetic when you consider that our strongest (most hopeful?) assets are in the creative/forward roles.

[Indy 3,298]

Just highlights how poor both McClean & Lees-Melou were. Both very poor and really the question still open if they are  good enough at this level.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

The space the player by the ref has (who u think ends up playing in Chilwell) is staggering. A midfielder sitting in that space and Kabak marking the correct man and we stop that goal. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

Just highlights how poor both McClean & Lees-Melou were. Both very poor and really the question still open if they are  good enough at this level.

Why is there a question mark over McClean? We learnt last time that he is far too lightweight for this division and can’t cut it. No surprise for me there 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

This is not the sort of stuff that needs money either. 

[Grumpy 122]

Its surely not the system,its the players.From that image there are two central players marking one forward.One of those should take the outside player giving Aarons the chance to mark Chigwell and one of the forward players should be tracking back to take the guy near the referee.Marking should be a bit tighter and they should be sprinting like their life depended on it.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Just now, Grumpy said:

Its surely not the system,its the players.From that image there are two central players marking one forward.One of those should take the outside player giving Aarons the chance to mark Chigwell and one of the forward players should be tracking back to take the guy near the referee.Marking should be a bit tighter and they should be sprinting like their life depended on it.

It’s both isn’t it. I agree the marking is wrong and that’s schoolboy stuff. But also one of Kenny and PLM needs to be deeper, in that space where the Chelsea player and the ref are.

Fundamentally though, this is why I don’t think Farke can be absolved of blame for this season. Maybe the players are just not doing what they are told but you don’t need £50m value players to mark properly or maintain positional discipline. 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,135]

That right there us why we're so diabolically bad. Not money or the quality of our players or bad luck, that, a shockingly poor structure and mentality when we don't have the ball. It's either a coaching issue and Farke doesn't understand how you have to behave off the ball in this league, the players are not fit enough to play at this level or they have stopped playing for the manager. Either one of those options means that a change is urgently required.

 

In the Championship teams had to worry about Pukki, Cantwell and Buendia so much that we never got pressed all over the park and teams never threw men forward like that against us so this aspect of Farkeball was never exposed, it was 2 seasons ago and it's happening again, if Farke could or wanted to coach us to play better without the ball he would have done it by now, it's not going to miraculously suddenly start happening v Leeds on Sunday

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

At one point towards the end of the game - Aarons was playing up front next to Pukki on the left side of him. When we lost the ball he jogged back to right back. 

Max seemed to be getting instruction from the technical zone rather than just taking it upon himself . It was absolutely absurd . 

 

[Grumpy 122]

In that system with the players that we have two of the midfielders should be sat in front of the three CBs who should be wider apart allowing the wingbacks to hug the line and look after any winger/overlapping full backs.

[lake district canary 4,531]

The 4th goal was an awful one to look at. at least two players were totally switched off.  Probably punch drunk by then. Rashica and Sargent were nowhere,

40 minutes ago, Indy said:

Just highlights how poor both McClean & Lees-Melou were. Both very poor and really the question still open if they are  good enough at this level.

Lees Melou wasn't on the pitch at this point.  Maclean was actually doing a job for the team, covering Williams who had gone forwards. We were over committed going fowards and the shame of it was that Rashica and Sargent made no effort to get back. The instant Williams lost the ball they should have both been busting a gut to get back to help.

Also, part of the cause of the 4th goal was that we had gone virtually 343 to try and get us more effective in attack. A gamble, at 3-0 down and maybe DF should have just kept it tight and defensive to try and keep the score down - but he didn't and some would say he was brave to go attacking. It didn't work - but at least he tried. 

[Indy 3,298]

Lakey this wasn’t an isolated incident and my point is valid, it’s 4-0 at this point, it was happening all game, McClean was utterly lost along with Lees. Rashica came on true but the system didn’t change.

The photo highlights the big mess as Normann pulled to challenge the ball and massive hole left there, where Normann is challenging is where McClean should have been!

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Yes sorry you are right that PLM had gone off Lakey but as Ian says the point is there is a huge gap in front of the defence with a completely unmarked Chelsea player and this happens all the time because we don’t have a midfielder who sits there. Kabak and Hanley are also both marking the same player. 

[Monty13 2,232]

Christ that picture is damning. Utter shambles.

Watching it back is even worse. Rashica in particular looks like he couldn’t care less which is unacceptable considering he’d just come on.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Monty13

[Uncle Fred 526]

The recruitment was a shambles, the pre season prep was a shambles, the tactics have been a shambles, the behind the scenes admin has been a shambles

yet our fans seem to be fine and dandy with the situation, how bad does it need to get before St. Andrews hall is booked 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

[hepphep 175]

I blame the ref, he didn't mark his man properly!

[duke63 542]

Arrons at times was playing alongside Pukki. I have no idea why DF chose to play two wing backs so high up the pitch against a team of Chelsea's quality away from home. Suicidal.

Edited October 25, 2021 by duke63
spelling

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

I said this about that goal in my post on the Chelsea goals that noone read! ☹️ 

 

Williams does seem to be fouled and is taken out of the game. Could argue harsh he didnt get the foul here. With Williams out of the game the team shape means James meets 3 banks of central players, none of whom are in his way and make no attempt to close him down, Kenny McLean doing little to dampen James' day. Shape means Gibson gets sucked out to Mount, but isnt tight enough to him to stop his pass. Normann has allowed Jorginho to get goal side of him and hasnt tracked his run. Kovacic is in ACRES of space again completely unmarked. At the time of Jorginho's pass to Kovacic, Hanley is ball-watching, not influencng the play. Kabak is marking the wrong forward and should have passed him on to Hanley so he can mark the other forward. Big criticism of Hanley and Kabak there for me in terms of organisation and communication - not for the first time from Kabak. Hanley is marking the space, Kabak is marking the player Hanley should be marking, which means Aarons, 3m behind the play is forced to leave Chilwell and get goalside of the forward Kabak should be picking up. So guess who scores? The final completely unmarked Chelsea player in this sequence Chilwell. All these players are poorly marked due to poor positioning/organisation by the team. Looks good to the Chelsea and neutral but from a yellow perspective it is absolutely terrible defending. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Interestingly, that still looks like it shows Hanley instructing Kabak to pick up who I assume is Havertz (most forward Chelsea player).

Personally I think if Hanley marks that player and takes him from Kabak, then Kabak picks up who I think is Hudson-Odoi (the player Max leaves Chilwell to pick up) allowing Max to stay with Chilwell. May still be a goal but Chilwell wouldnt be free to pick his spot.

In a different game Kabak was again picking up the wrong player and found his run checked by Hanley as he tried to stay with that player, who then losing his marker scores.

Defensively the organisation is terrible. The 3 at the back and the 3 in midfield needs to go. Causing more problems than it is solving. Worked as a short term measure to stop the rot but it isnt the answer. Sargent and Pukki doesnt work either. In fact none of it works

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

 

This was Chelsea’s 4th goal. Not really a counter attack as I recall. We are playing 5 at the back snd 3 in midfield (supposedly).

Chilwell at the top ends up scoring without any sort of challenge being made by anyone. It’s just shambolic.

So here's what I see wrong with this picture.

Williams is about 35 yards too far forwards complaining about getting a kick to the foot, meaning Mclean, who should be closing down Jorginho rather than Normann, has to cover. Normann should be in the middle of the pitch picking up Kovacic by the ref. Kabak should be covering Hudson-Odoi unmarked on the edge of the box, with Hanley tighter to the man (Havertz) both he and Kabak are marking. Gibson is in a horrendous position just asking Mount, receiving the ball, to cut inside rather than showing him down the line, who then plays a simple 1-2 with Jorginho taking him out of the game. Aarons then doesn't track the run of Chilwell, who he has a 6-7 yard head start on, giving him a free shot  from 14 yards.

Other than that, it was great defending.

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

The biggest problem, as it do often is, is that space in front of the back three. The Chelsea player is able to receive the ball unmarked, pick his pass and play it with zero pressure or challenge. We have to find a midfield combo and formation that means that space is not vacated and we will be so much harder to play through. That and sort the marking, I’ve often wondered if Hanley is loud enough. There seems to be a lack of communication, 

[shefcanary 2,403]

Why the **** did we have 3 CB's in the first place?  Chelsea started without  a recognised attacker, 4-2-3-1 was more appropriate, then the 2 holding midfielders would have been clear of ther role.  It really isn't rocket science!  

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

15 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

The space the player by the ref has (who u think ends up playing in Chilwell) is staggering. A midfielder sitting in that space and Kabak marking the correct man and we stop that goal. 

Its absolutely criminal how much space he has, wouldn't be getting away with that at the level I played at, let alone the Premier league. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

So is it the players not understanding the system / not buying into it or is it they just can not do what they are being asked to do?

Aarons attitude has always been spot on so him not busting a gut to get back is worrying.

Looking at that in more detail, time unfortunately seems to be running out for Farke... 😢

[Google Bot 3,275]

31 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So is it the players not understanding the system / not buying into it or is it they just can not do what they are being asked to do?

I believe it's because Farke and his team have sought to create a calmness and eliminate any panic in order to create a controlled passing team who don't lose their heads.  This is why in the championship season we were nicking wins through tiring the opposition out whereas we had plenty in reserve.

It's a complete change of mentality, we need to be displaying raw desire on that field, but Farke himself is unable to drop his calm persona to rally the troops and perhaps 'drop' to that style of play.   

Truth is, he's playing a system that he has very little passion for, but it's presented through necessity.  We're a ballerina trying to work as a mechanic.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Google Bot

[king canary 7,605]

10 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So is it the players not understanding the system / not buying into it or is it they just can not do what they are being asked to do?

Aarons attitude has always been spot on so him not busting a gut to get back is worrying.

Looking at that in more detail, time unfortunately seems to be running out for Farke... 😢

This is my question.

There seems to be no organisation or drilling on the defensive basics and players look like they don't know their roles.

@Iwans Big Toe 's analysis is spot on but the wider question is how does one person being out of position cause the whole system to fall apart. Nobody seems to understand who's job it is to cover each other, nobody seems to communicate at all. In that picture is Hanley telling Kabak he's got his man so go wider? Is Kabak aware where Aarons is? And how does nobody fill in the giant gap in the middle of the park. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I accept that they only show us a snapshot of what they do in training in those weekly videos but its interesting that every drill they ever show them doing involves technical control/skills and having possession of the ball. They never show they working on defending or what you do when you don;t have the ball. Perhaps thats because it would be less interesting to watch, I don;t know, but I have my suspicions that they don;t do enough of it because "Farkeball" as we once knew it was very much about dominating possession and winning games due to our greater technical ability. 

[Google Bot 3,275]

27 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

They never show they working on defending or what you do when you don;t have the ball

We don't have anyone capable of teaching them.  Hanley is more experienced than all our defence minded coaches combined.    It's like having GCSE teachers tutoring at Uni level, no wonder we fail so heavily.   Everything probably looks great "in theory" on the training field, hence why they look so confused when we're 5 down on matchday.

If you're going to be self efficient then you make sure that the people growing these players have a wealth of knowledge and the best that you could possibly bring in, in fact, you heavily invest in those areas as it affects everyone.

If we were in the market to bring someone in, I sincerely hope we'd be looking beyond "sixth tier" Riemer.   He's a friend of Farke's who played CB, it's akin to the board bringing in Neil Adams cause he's a 'friend' that has managed before.  They're so out of their depth it's not even funny, you only have to watch us play to see it.

Outside of changing the manager, someone coming in with experience who's not afraid of breaking some eggs would be a positive step. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Google Bot