Jump to content
lake district canary

Opening a can of worms

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

That is what happens when you start analysing the situation with our club. You start with saying the manager has to go, but why is he in difficulties..........because Webber didn't get good enough players.......why couldn't Webber get good enough players....because there isn't the money in the club.......why isn't there enough money....because we don't have super rich owners. 

Ok, everyone knows that, but what is the solution?  Some of you would say sack the manager anyway.  But is that te best thing? Really? Could anyone do any better with what we have? Really? 

Then people would say, sack Webber and others go further in saying change the owners.........so it's a can of worms. Sack Farke and you might as well sack Webber too.  Sack Farke and Webber and you might as well sack the owners. In other words change the whole club, get some money in and start all over again.

But here's the thing. In one sense the club is incredibly healthy in the way it is being run, we are way richer than we were four years ago - staggeringly better off actually, with some excellent young talent which is being nurtured by a manager who has top pedigree in bringing youngsters through. We show consistently we can get promoted.  In another sense the difficulties on the pitch remain because we are still miles off the pace in being able to get good enough players to compete at the highest level. 

So do you open the can of worms, or do you stick with what you know will keep the club strong? 

But that takes us back to the manager, the point at which people first look to see change.  Is there any point in changing someone who as proved he can build teams in the most difficult of situations (more tham once)  unless you change the rest of the club?   It's pointless changing one person for another, a person who is loved by many fans, if the situation behind the scenes is the same. But then you are back to the same conundrum. 

The answer?  Stay true to your beliefs and policies and work through them - the alternative is to change the club from top to bottom.....and is it that broken that it needs changing? Some would say yes. I would say no, as many others would too. The scale of the achievement to even get promoted is incredible given the vast resources that even clubs in the championship have compared to us and we have doen it twice - and imo could do it again.  

Not nice at the moment? Of course it isn't, but is the answer change?  Not imo, DF is integral to our success - and the fulcrum of any success we are likely to get (which is why he was given a four year contract) and getting rid could be the start of opening that can of worms......and a downward path. Is that really what we want?

I agree 100%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Coneys Knee said:

I don’t disagree with most of that if I’m honest. I can accept we’re poor, I can even accept we are favourites for relegation but what I struggle to accept is how we manage to humiliate and embarrass ourselves in the process.
 

There’s a way to get beaten, and a way to get relegated. With fight, pride and effort regardless. But we just whimper and have assembled a squad that appears to be mentally fragile. 
 

I don’t know what the solution is, but I do know that rolling up our sleeves and battling hard would help the situation to some degree but we don’t even really show signs of doing that and that is an embarrassment.

Your last paragraph, lakey, is where I fear we’re at. Soon all we’ll have to show for our acceptance of the yoyo is Neil Adams as sporting director and a kenny jacket as head coach. That’s why this club should be fighting harder against relegation. Re-promotion is not a guarantee.

Does that mean you agree then if you don’t disagree? 😂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Too many simple assumptions here.

Farke is definitely a good player coach. Question is is he a good team manager? Tactics and setup?

Our players are actually good - but do they play together as a team to their strengths (or weaknesses).

If you play Pukki he needs ball to feet off the shoulder of the last defender not fast winger crosses.

I could go on......

It just seems we haver no joined up thinking as to what is needed or how to play.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really very simple. The team looks disorganised, disinterested, oddly selected, tacticly inept, not defending, not attacking, and not getting any points when that is rather the point of playing. Who is responsible? The manager.

 

When things aren't going well you don't always need to over analyse everything and get bogged down in all the strategic stuff. Thats just an excuse to do nothing.

 

Doing nothing is not an option here.

 

No can of worms here, just one staff member out of his depth.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tumbleweed said:

No can of worms here, just one staff member out of his depth

Is that the poor fella  cooking Scampi at 19 to the dozen , trying to keep up with Waveneys  stomach demands..... most would be out if their  depth. 👍😇😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Coneys Knee said:

I don’t disagree with most of that if I’m honest. I can accept we’re poor, I can even accept we are favourites for relegation but what I struggle to accept is how we manage to humiliate and embarrass ourselves in the process.

There’s a way to get beaten, and a way to get relegated. With fight, pride and effort regardless. But we just whimper and have assembled a squad that appears to be mentally fragile. 

Exactly, look at Ainsworth's Wycombe last season.

Didn't try to be anything they weren't, accepted that they couldn't play anybody off the park so played to their strengths and make things as uncomfortable as possible for the opposition, had a manager with a few different ideas and they almost stayed up against all odds... with an average League One budget.

Squad had a togetherness and they played out of their skins for each other and their manager.Even when a few goals behind they always had pride left to play for and treated that with the utmost seriousness. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's up to the manager to ensure that we're the very best that we can be on each matchday.  And he's failing in that regard, we're not even pressing or motivated to fight for the ball.  It's not even at the point where we can ascertain the skill set or signings because of these failures.

Furthermore, Farke and Webber have a close relationship yet somehow we've managed to buy in wide creatives in a team doesn't require their usage.  Again, the most basic of management tasks is fulfilling roles and working to their strengths - abject failure.

Change of manager is needed ASAP,  the likes of Reiner backing Farke up are incredibly inadequate too - the whole lot need to be wiped as they're happy to experience a prem league day out with the already prepared apology that we're "Self efficient", but that's just BS as you can at least try and go at teams - money does not define that.

Also, finances show that we could've kept Emi and paid him the going rate for his services.

To my mind Farke is easy to replace as there's an abundance of suiters out there right now, Webber not so much.   We need a manager who's going to be very clear what his requirements are and to put pressure on board/Webber to support him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People claiming we can’t do better than Farke need to explain how we could do any worse? 
 

honestly look at his record in this division, it absolutely stinks. Worse than almost any other manager you care to mention. At present we are even worse than that infamous Derby team at this stage of the season. Keep that going and literally ANY manager will be an improvement in terms of record! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quote

That is what happens when you start analysing the situation with our club. You start with saying the manager has to go, but why is he in difficulties..........because Webber didn't get good enough players......

For me, there's no need to look further than Farke.

It appears to me that he is in difficulties because he has been unable to combine the players at his disposal - which we must assume he was at least partially involved in signing - with an effective style of football in the Premier League.  We appear to have assembled an expensive League of Nations without considering how they might best fit together into a cohesive team.  That is primarily Farke's responsibility, and one he is failing at. 

Two points from nine games (which is also two points from our last twenty-four Premier League games) tells me very little has been learnt from our last top flight season.  Two points out of twenty-seven isn't wonderful.  The club has invested in the squad, and it is up to Farke to deliver a functioning team. He has so far failed, and I see no signs he will turn this around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Exactly, look at Ainsworth's Wycombe last season.

Didn't try to be anything they weren't, accepted that they couldn't play anybody off the park so played to their strengths and make things as uncomfortable as possible for the opposition, had a manager with a few different ideas and they almost stayed up against all odds... with an average League One budget.

Squad had a togetherness and they played out of their skins for each other and their manager.Even when a few goals behind they always had pride left to play for and treated that with the utmost seriousness. 

And they didn’t squeal regarding their opening fixtures. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

At present we are even worse than that infamous Derby team at this stage of the season.

I assumed this was an exaggeration but I went and checked and yep, you're correct and what's more is it isn't even close. Derby had 5 points on the board by this stage in that infamous season.

Edited by king canary
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, king canary said:

I assumed this was an exaggeration but I went and checked and yep, you're correct and what's more is it isn't even close. Derby had 5 points on the board by this stage in that infamous season.

And twice the goals. Make no mistake the second half of the season is always tougher in this league. Without wanting to make a bad situation even bleaker…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Tumbleweed said:

It's really very simple. The team looks disorganised, disinterested, oddly selected, tacticly inept, not defending, not attacking, and not getting any points when that is rather the point of playing. Who is responsible? The manager.

When things aren't going well you don't always need to over analyse everything and get bogged down in all the strategic stuff. Thats just an excuse to do nothing.

Doing nothing is not an option here.

No can of worms here, just one staff member out of his depth.

Yeah, really simple, isn't it........or maybe there is more to it than that.  You say "The team looks disorganised, disinterested, oddly selected, tacticly inept, not defending, not attacking, and not getting any points"  yet only the week before we were the opposite - organised, interested, solid selection, good tactically, good defending and got a point. So does it all change in one game, or was it an abberation?  Which team do we have, the one against Bighton or the one against Chelsea...same players, after all.......  I wouldn't mind betting the team we see against Leeds will be much more of the team we saw against Brighton - and hopefully three points ths time, as we deserved against Brighton. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yeah, really simple, isn't it........or maybe there is more to it than that.  You say "The team looks disorganised, disinterested, oddly selected, tacticly inept, not defending, not attacking, and not getting any points"  yet only the week before we were the opposite - organised, interested, solid selection, good tactically, good defending and got a point. So does it all change in one game, or was it an abberation?  Which team do we have, the one against Bighton or the one against Chelsea...same players, after all.......  I wouldn't mind betting the team we see against Leeds will be much more of the team we saw against Brighton - and hopefully three points ths time, as we deserved against Brighton. 

The problem is that you see a point at home agaimnst Brighton as some sort of success. Ordinarily its an average result in a winnable fixture. Fact is we only created chances from their mistakes as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of the team on Saturday, only Hanley and Krul played with any semblance of commitment. Rashica and Andrew O were thrown into a lion's den but could do nothing to help. Kabak, Normann, Giannoulis, Gibson, PLM, Maclean, Sargent, Williams, Pukki and Aarons were all appalling.

Our front two had to play higher to close down their centre backs from supplementing their already superb midfield. They didn't, and neither did our back 3 step up which allowed Chelsea to flood our 3 in midfield with as many as 7 players at times. They had no chance. No runners were tracked. No Chelsea player was closed down or even marked.

Remember the Pukki who would track back to recover the ball? Remember the Aarons who would bust a gut to recover his position?

This is not just players having an "off day". This looks like a team who don't believe and are just turning up for the whipping.

Farke has abandoned his principles and not taken his team with him. The body language is a give away.

It's not enough to say "do nothing".

For me Farke is responsible and I'll give him the Leeds game because we all owe him that much for last season. Win it, and he gets the Brentford game. Anything other than a win against Leeds and he should go. The club is bigger than Daniel Farke, and at the moment it doesn't feel like that.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Of the team on Saturday, only Hanley and Krul played with any semblance of commitment. Rashica and Andrew O were thrown into a lion's den but could do nothing to help. Kabak, Normann, Giannoulis, Gibson, PLM, Maclean, Sargent, Williams, Pukki and Aarons were all appalling.

Our front two had to play higher to close down their centre backs from supplementing their already superb midfield. They didn't, and neither did our back 3 step up which allowed Chelsea to flood our 3 in midfield with as many as 7 players at times. They had no chance. No runners were tracked. No Chelsea player was closed down or even marked.

Remember the Pukki who would track back to recover the ball? Remember the Aarons who would bust a gut to recover his position?

This is not just players having an "off day". This looks like a team who don't believe and are just turning up for the whipping.

Farke has abandoned his principles and not taken his team with him. The body language is a give away.

It's not enough to say "do nothing".

For me Farke is responsible and I'll give him the Leeds game because we all owe him that much for last season. Win it, and he gets the Brentford game. Anything other than a win against Leeds and he should go. The club is bigger than Daniel Farke, and at the moment it doesn't feel like that.

I read it as though the players didn't believe or agree of how Farke set them up to play. So, in the effect, he has lost the dressing room if that is the case. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

No-one else is going to keep us up this season. So why change?  Farke will get the team fighting again and the players will know that was unacceptable on Saturday.

You have absolutely no evidence for your first assertion, but the longer we delay in making a change the harder it becomes for anyone else to turn things around.  As for your second assertion, when you look at Farke’s performance at Premier League level the evidence suggests very strongly that he’s highly unlikely to be able to turn things around.  You have your head in the sand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

“Lakey, the captains just shot himself in the head and and everyone’s jumping overboard” 

Reply “Best keep playing lads everything will be all right “

The terrified passengers But we're sinking Lakey we're all going to die.

Lakey: Worry not, I think we've come to rest over a sand bank and the water is only 2ft deep here so we can virtually walk home

Edited by Mullet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Mullet said:

The terrified passengers But we're sinking Lakey we're all going to die.

Lakey: Worry not, I think we've come to rest over a sand bank and the water is only 2ft deep here so we can virtually walk home

Everyone stay on board.  No ship can possibly save us apart from this one because it’s so well built.  Yes, it’s leaking a little below the waterline but I have every confidence that our wonderful owners and the Captain will repair it soon and everything will be fine.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very easy for the OP to pick one game or segment thereof to try to prove a point. But fortunately most are capable of seeing the fallacy of that. Over 47 Prem games, an element of consistency and statistical significance suggests that DF's team is performing at a rather sub optimal level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

That is what happens when you start analysing the situation with our club. You start with saying the manager has to go, but why is he in difficulties..........because Webber didn't get good enough players.......why couldn't Webber get good enough players....because there isn't the money in the club.......why isn't there enough money....because we don't have super rich owners. 

Ok, everyone knows that, but what is the solution?  Some of you would say sack the manager anyway.  But is that te best thing? Really? Could anyone do any better with what we have? Really? 

Then people would say, sack Webber and others go further in saying change the owners.........so it's a can of worms. Sack Farke and you might as well sack Webber too.  Sack Farke and Webber and you might as well sack the owners. In other words change the whole club, get some money in and start all over again.

But here's the thing. In one sense the club is incredibly healthy in the way it is being run, we are way richer than we were four years ago - staggeringly better off actually, with some excellent young talent which is being nurtured by a manager who has top pedigree in bringing youngsters through. We show consistently we can get promoted.  In another sense the difficulties on the pitch remain because we are still miles off the pace in being able to get good enough players to compete at the highest level. 

So do you open the can of worms, or do you stick with what you know will keep the club strong? 

But that takes us back to the manager, the point at which people first look to see change.  Is there any point in changing someone who as proved he can build teams in the most difficult of situations (more tham once)  unless you change the rest of the club?   It's pointless changing one person for another, a person who is loved by many fans, if the situation behind the scenes is the same. But then you are back to the same conundrum. 

The answer?  Stay true to your beliefs and policies and work through them - the alternative is to change the club from top to bottom.....and is it that broken that it needs changing? Some would say yes. I would say no, as many others would too. The scale of the achievement to even get promoted is incredible given the vast resources that even clubs in the championship have compared to us and we have doen it twice - and imo could do it again.  

Not nice at the moment? Of course it isn't, but is the answer change?  Not imo, DF is integral to our success - and the fulcrum of any success we are likely to get (which is why he was given a four year contract) and getting rid could be the start of opening that can of worms......and a downward path. Is that really what we want?

Ffs what are you on. Another nonsensical post. What do supporters watch their side. To see them win. And NCFC under Farke consistently cannot win in the premiership. What is the point in being a rich club if you cannot compete. What is the point of having a manager who can nurture talent of a young age, to see that young talent sold to make us a rich club! He might be a top manager in nurturing talent, but I agree with thousands of others, he cannot get results at Prem level and yes, is way way out of his depth. Rich club indeed, so what, having riches does not bring success unless you are prepared to invest it where it matters, in the actualplaying staff

one thing I will agree on, yes, we need new owners urgently,  we need a new director of football, and yes, we do need a new manager, very very quickly, because this one has sold his soul down the Swanee at the expense of Mr Webber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Off the pitch home fans are taking the p*** at our support, because of the low number of seats being held onto by the club.

Did the players get told we had sent all those seats back at Chelsea, Everton and Manchester City or did the players also think fans didn’t want to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

No-one else is going to keep us up this season. So why change?

In other words:

Farke has screwed things up beyond the point that anyone else can salvage the season. So why change? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Everyone stay on board.  No ship can possibly save us apart from this one because it’s so well built.  Yes, it’s leaking a little below the waterline but I have every confidence that our wonderful owners and the Captain will repair it soon and everything will be fine.  

“But the captain has shot himself in the head”

 

”Ointment, put some ointment on the wound and a plaster” 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

The problem is that you see a point at home agaimnst Brighton as some sort of success. Ordinarily its an average result in a winnable fixture. Fact is we only created chances from their mistakes as well. 

100% correct. A 0 0 draw at home to Brighton and missing our chances that were terrible mistakes by them not great attacking play by us. If that's progress I really do worry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brunel to dockyard: Lets build the Titanic. Oh dear its sunk. Lets build another one. Oh dear it has also sunk. After 47 Titanics have sunk Brunel says: Lets build another one. Sensible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

“But the captain has shot himself in the head”

 

”Ointment, put some ointment on the wound and a plaster” 

"But Lakey...HE'S DEAD!!!"

"Don't be so pessimistic. Jesus came back from the dead. He had a beard; I've got a beard. Ipso facto I'm Jesus. ARISE!"

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

Stop this nonsense Lakey 

with this model it can’t succeed it is the chocolate tea pot of models? It’s sticking feathers to your arms expecting to fly, it can’t work and the longer you and the clappers try and justify it the worse we will get 

Sunday needs to be a really really poisonous atmosphere so we can finally get some meaningful change 

You forgot to mention a good Boooooooooooooooooo !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...