The two midfielders in a 4-2-3-1?

[hogesar 9,615]

I think most would like to see us revert back to what we know. If that happens, who's the 2 midfielders central?

Most put Normann in then after that it's more difficult. Id say PLM but even then, McLean was better than both Normann and PLM yesterday,  but thats hardly a barometer.

We've not had the balance right all season even with three in that midfield so im not sure 2 is going to look much better but possibly Gilmour and Normann is an option? Feels too lightweight. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

You have to remember the golden rule when things are going badly. That is that the stock of those not playing exponentially rises while those actually being picked are all crud. We’ve already seen this season Sargent go from being better than Pukki to worse than RVW.

On that basis, I’m going to suggest that Sorensen and Gilmour would be a popular choice. The three would be Rashica/Cantwell/Tzolis etc

And we should recall Hernandez…

[Justin time 182]

7 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

You have to remember the golden rule when things are going badly. That is that the stock of those not playing exponentially rises while those actually being picked are all crud. We’ve already seen this season Sargent go from being better than Pukki to worse than RVW.

On that basis, I’m going to suggest that Sorensen and Gilmour would be a popular choice. The three would be Rashica/Cantwell/Tzolis etc

And we should recall Hernandez…

Sorensen and Normann for me. Agree with the three though.

[hogesar 9,615]

11 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

You have to remember the golden rule when things are going badly. That is that the stock of those not playing exponentially rises while those actually being picked are all crud. We’ve already seen this season Sargent go from being better than Pukki to worse than RVW.

On that basis, I’m going to suggest that Sorensen and Gilmour would be a popular choice. The three would be Rashica/Cantwell/Tzolis etc

And we should recall Hernandez…

Are we at the stage of asking for random players from the u23s to be deserving of a Premier League start yet though? And do they jump the queue on the existing first team players not getting a game?

[Duncan Edwards 2,218]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Are we at the stage of asking for random players from the u23s to be deserving of a Premier League start yet though? And do they jump the queue on the existing first team players not getting a game?

“Couldn’t do any worse” 

[Aggy 752]

Don’t think it matters. The issue isn’t the personnel but the organisation. For at least four or five of the goals yesterday there were either huge gaps between the lines or the midfield was far too deep. Given that has been the problem pretty much every game both this season and last time we were in the prem, I don’t think changing the individuals will make much difference.

 

[Grumpy 122]

I would play Gilmour in the middle of the front 3 with Cantwell as one of the wide men

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

1 minute ago, Aggy said:

Don’t think it matters. The issue isn’t the personnel but the organisation. For at least four or five of the goals yesterday there were either huge gaps between the lines or the midfield was far too deep. Given that has been the problem pretty much every game both this season and last time we were in the prem, I don’t think changing the individuals will make much difference.

 

Yup, among other subtle and not so subtle tactical issues that you can broadly summarize with being too passive off the ball both when defending and when trying to play our pass and move football. It's why I get frustrated by all this talk of formations and switching personel. 

Farke will change his team and formations but he will not abandon his core playing philosophy of slow, patient passing football where the expectation is that we don't lose the ball. That expectation means that we are not really well prepared, coached or set up to deal with being without the ball so much and we often look bemused by how often we lose the ball, like we were expecting that the opposition wouldn't, with their team of super athletes try to win the ball back from us as fast as possible.

 That is the key issue, switching base formations around won't help us if we don't either change the manager or he radically alters his coaching philosophy, drastically improves our shape, structure and movement and  somehow injects a much higher intensity into our play. 

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

I think we should indeed be looking at 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 (presumably perm the 3 out of Normann, Gilmour, Kenny, PLM, Sorensen; 2 out of Tzolis, Rashica, Todd, Sargent), I guess they are kind of variances around 4-5-1; we should also perhaps look to encourage our defenders to, first and foremost, look to defend rather than attack.

One of my biggest issues under DF/SW has been the number of winger-types we’ve had who we don’t really seem to know how to use effectively, and yet we seem to go and bring in more every year.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Branston Pickle

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

Normann and Sorenson. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

13 minutes ago, Grumpy said:

I would play Gilmour in the middle of the front 3 with Cantwell as one of the wide men

Yep so any 3 really of Gilmour,  Rashica,  Tzolis,  and Todders, maybe even Sargent  in the middle of three if we resort to bash crash smash towards the end of a game.

I'd much rather we lose playing attacking decent footy in a 4231 than lose looking dreadful in 352  .

Having said that  a win would be nice.

Back to the OP , Normann  and Sorensen for me. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by wcorkcanary

[king canary 7,578]

Normann and Gilmour if Normann has the discipline to really play as a defensive midfielder but I'm not sure he does. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

Normann and Gilmour if Normann has the discipline to really play as a defensive midfielder but I'm not sure he does. 

Agree,on the Normann  bit ,unless he's been briefed  to wander a bit ..cos that what he seems to do. ... not as disciplined as tettey or skippo. Gilmour further  forward  imo. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by wcorkcanary

[shefcanary 2,383]

Normann & Sorenson.  Period! 

[canarycop 204]

Normann and Sorensen

Three of Tzolis Gilmour and Rashica behind Teemu

[Sussexyellow 55]

Good question.

If we are to offer any kind of attacking threat we need then we probably do need to revert to 4 2 3 1. Otherwise we are playing defence versus their attack and it’s all over as soon as a goal goes in. We will not get enough goalless draws to earn respectability let alone survive.

Serious question as I don’t know the answer but do we have to play our full backs so high. Can the wingers we have bought not give us the width. With so little attacking threat the opposition probably feel they do not need to cover them and push players on anyway. 
 

I would play Normann in the 2 but recognise that he is not a defensive midfielder. The only player who could take on the Skipp role is probably Sorensen who is untried at this level but probably worth a go. 
 

If we are playing both Raschica and Tzolis then we need somebody who can get on the end of their crosses and also a target when the long ball from defence is necessary. We do not really have this type of player! So, and I know this will be unpopular, but possibly Kenny. He may even become popular if he is being compared to Sargent!

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

Yes, good to see the out-of-the-side-makes-them-into-Pele thing is still alive and well with some.  It is nonetheless odd that we have seen nothing of young Sorensen.