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3 minutes ago, Tumbleweed said:

This is clearly Webbers biggest challenge. He meeds to show the guts to accept that Farke's time is done. He has probably got too friendly with the coach, but is he a man or a wimp?

'Is he a man or a wimp' is social media in a nutshell.

Yes, Daniel has lost his way. For whatever reasons his man management has failed him and failed this group of players. Maybe he is right and they are wrong. Maybe individual treatment of players has been correct. Maybe not.

Daniel continues to say what he continues to say, in the way he continues to say it, and it doesn't work with this group of players. But Daniel is who he is. His voice is his voice  his style is his style.

But to suggest that ditching him is a matter of bravery is wrong. Stuart Webber needs to assess the Risk. Then have a succession plan. Then consider the mechanics. Then go through the difficult decision making process and if he gets a thumbs up, proceed. And yes, at every stage he may be hurting as he is terminating the immediate career of someone he respects and who may be a friend. In a working career of a number of decades I have only come across two flawed  people who enjoy sacking people. 

It deserves more than being reduced to 'wimp' or 'not a wimp' summary.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Kingston Yellow said:

And presiding over 34 losses out of 47 EPL games.

And two relegations.

This is a results business. Not a game of monopoly. 

McNally’s reign outperformed Webber’s on every measure as far as I’m concerned. 

I like and respect McNally. He also got us out of a financial mess and the double promotion was sensational.

Unlike Webber, he had nothing to show for it apart from a minor capacity increase. We were back in debt when he left and Colney hadn't been developed at all. Players literally rejected us after seeing the facilities when he was in charge.

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11 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'm right though arent I? Webber has made us millions, left a legacy with Top 6 Premier League standard facilities (even Talksport begrudgingly spoke about that today pre match), and Will leave us in a better place significantly off the pitch,  and on it too.

Like I said, Webber will go to a bigger club than us when he leaves.

Also, if I make the club a laughing stock guess what? Tough sh*t fella. I ain't going anywhere. Maybe you could try doing something about all your complaints instead of aimlessly whining on here?

How has he left us in a better place on the pitch? 
 

No evidence that’s the case currently is there?

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3 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

How has he left us in a better place on the pitch? 
 

No evidence that’s the case currently is there?

Yeah, there's literally zero difference in value, age, potential or quality of our squad now to the one Webber came into. None at all.

Why be so silly?

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Me silly? 🤣🤣

you stated he’s left us better on the pitch, when he clearly hasn’t has he? 
 

Which clubs would pay more for those players on view yesterday? NONE

 

It’s commendable how you bang the drum for how great he is and yes he’s improved the facilities, but the players? No way. Which of those permanent signings like Sargent, Gibson, Giannoullis, Rashica, Tzolis, PLM, has increased in value? Yet he once told us money had been wasted but it would never be wasted again, yet the evidence suggests it clearly has again.

Edited by TheBaldOne66

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2 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Me silly? 🤣🤣

you stated he’s left us better on the pitch, when he clearly hasn’t has he? 
 

Which clubs would pay more for those players on view yesterday? NONE

 

It’s commendable how you bang the drum for how great he is and yes he’s improved the facilities, but the players? No way. Which of those permanent signings like Sargent, Gibson, Giannoullis, Rashica, Tzolis, PLM, has increased in value? Yet he once told us money had been wasted but it would never be wasted again, yet the evidence suggests it clearly has again.

Now you're not being silly, you're either genuinely thick or purposefully being ignorant.

I didnt say Rashica increased in value did I? But do I think hes worth more than Wildshutt who was in the squad when Webber first came in? Categorically yes. I was comparing the squad Webber came into to the one hes likely to depart with. I'm not sure how I can make this clearer.

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2 hours ago, Pugin said:

'Is he a man or a wimp' is social media in a nutshell.

Yes, Daniel has lost his way. For whatever reasons his man management has failed him and failed this group of players. Maybe he is right and they are wrong. Maybe individual treatment of players has been correct. Maybe not.

Daniel continues to say what he continues to say, in the way he continues to say it, and it doesn't work with this group of players. But Daniel is who he is. His voice is his voice  his style is his style.

But to suggest that ditching him is a matter of bravery is wrong. Stuart Webber needs to assess the Risk. Then have a succession plan. Then consider the mechanics. Then go through the difficult decision making process and if he gets a thumbs up, proceed. And yes, at every stage he may be hurting as he is terminating the immediate career of someone he respects and who may be a friend. In a working career of a number of decades I have only come across two flawed  people who enjoy sacking people. 

It deserves more than being reduced to 'wimp' or 'not a wimp' summary.

 

 

Excellent post

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12 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Alex Neil was pictured at a game with David McNally a few weeks ago, we could go full circle and have them both back.

Delia was pleased that McNally resigned, so no way back for him. 

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If Webbo actually handed in his notice tomorrow, I personally would care nought...."Oh he's gone prematurely? Oh well never mind" ....

This club would still continue.....for better or for worse.....

 

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11 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'm right though arent I? Webber has made us millions, left a legacy with Top 6 Premier League standard facilities (even Talksport begrudgingly spoke about that today pre match), and Will leave us in a better place significantly off the pitch,  and on it too.

Like I said, Webber will go to a bigger club than us when he leaves.

Also, if I make the club a laughing stock guess what? Tough sh*t fella. I ain't going anywhere. Maybe you could try doing something about all your complaints instead of aimlessly whining on here?

Webber should be leaving sooner rather than later. What bigger club will want him though? He’s proved twice he can’t recruit the right players to be competitive in a top league. It’s not a matter of fact but merely your opinion. 

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3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Now you're not being silly, you're either genuinely thick or purposefully being ignorant.

I didnt say Rashica increased in value did I? But do I think hes worth more than Wildshutt who was in the squad when Webber first came in? Categorically yes. I was comparing the squad Webber came into to the one hes likely to depart with. I'm not sure how I can make this clearer.

I think, but correct me if I'm wrong, Webber inherited most of the valuable assets, namely Todd, Aarons, Lewis, Murphy twins, Godfrey, Maddison. 

It was the sale of these players which helped allow Webber to improve our facilties,  not players he purchased. 

The 2 most valuable assets he has signed are Buendia and Pukki. Dimi's value has gone up as well since we were offered 13m for him in the summer. But far more money has been wasted on players (I've not checked all these fees below, just going off what I vaguely remember the amounts  being and used transfer market for the lessor known signings😞

Hugill- 5m plus 

Gibson - 10m

Placheta -3m plus 

Fahrmann- 3m plus loan fee

Sargent- 10m plus (not including Rashica and Tzolis as I'm holding out hope they will become good)

Mccallum- 3m plus 

Bushuri  -1m 

Franke - 3m

Husband - 1m 

Drmic- free but who knows how much it cost us to pay him off

As well as the above there has been a huge scattergun approach in signing youngsters, the majority of which have not made it at the club. 

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8 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Webber should be leaving sooner rather than later. What bigger club will want him though? He’s proved twice he can’t recruit the right players to be competitive in a top league. It’s not a matter of fact but merely your opinion. 

Well if he does leave, we will see if a bigger club agrees with me or not...

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Will Webbo be sitting on his hands on Sunday when we play his beloved Leeds?......You never know, they could be his next employer?....

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9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Well if he does leave, we will see if a bigger club agrees with me or not...

I wonder if this bigger club, if it happens, will be happy with him openly discussing his future career plan?

So unprofessional but then again I suppose my opinion is like that of a 4 year old wearing nappies?

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Just now, essex canary said:

I wonder if this bigger club, if it happens, will be happy with him openly discussing his future career plan?

So unprofessional but then again I suppose my opinion is like that of a 4 year old wearing nappies?

Who knows, we will see, won't we?

Don't think I've ever referred to you as a 4 year old.

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1 hour ago, Yellow and Green said:

I like and respect McNally. He also got us out of a financial mess and the double promotion was sensational.

Unlike Webber, he had nothing to show for it apart from a minor capacity increase. We were back in debt when he left and Colney hadn't been developed at all. Players literally rejected us after seeing the facilities when he was in charge.

Rubbish. Webber wouldn’t have had a club to manage without McNally’s platform. 

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13 hours ago, hogesar said:

Those saying Webber out are being a bit naive. Put it this way, when he does go it'll be to a bigger club than us.

I used to think that about Webber and Farke, I no longer do. Both have proved nothing at this level. 

Big clubs don’t take risks like that, they wait for people to overachieve at smaller clubs then take them, same as we did with Webber.

I think a bigger club would be mad to take either based on the current evidence.

 

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8 minutes ago, Kingston Yellow said:

Rubbish. Webber wouldn’t have had a club to manage without McNally’s platform. 

I literally referenced that. Read the post properly before responding.

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6 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

I literally referenced that. Read the post properly before responding.

I’m referring to you suggesting that McNally had “nothing to show” for his time at the helm. Quite frankly, that was a ridiculous thing to say.

McNally’s priorities were different. Saving the club was his and Bowcott’s priority. And their win rate in the prem far outstrips the current leadership’s.

 

 

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I was impressed with Webber & Farke in their early seasons (inc the bounce backability to the Prem) - to be honest really impressed

 

Webber has made the same player mistakes as last time we got promoted, & Farke just appears to just not take on what's needed for the Prem (albeit I feel sorry for him as Webber let's him down again)

 

We brought out more contracts for players this season of no value to other Clubs, than I can remember over 40 years +

 

We certainly needed a bit of quality to help the 1st XI - instead we got a load of quantity to bolster our 1st XV (at best Championship level)

 

Webber made the same mistakes at Huddersfield in the Prem - he continues that trend at Norwich

 

Yes Facilities are better - 100% agree, & that will help produce better Academy players, & may attract better quality signings in the future

 

It is the total lack of ambition every time we bounce back to the Prem that is so very frustrating.  We spent next to nothing last time we got promoted,  & we have spent approx £14m of Prem promotion cash this season after promoting again to the Prem (taking off selling our best player for £36M+)

 

£3 or 4 million on facilities does not justify such a low expenditure on players over 2 Prem promotions

 

I wanted just a few quality players to join our 1st XI (+ perhaps a few quality loans) not just quantity of average players to keep the subs bench warm

 

...........................................................................................................

 

And to contradict a point of view that appears to pop up all the time by our NCFC EDP reporters - most fans were not positive about the signings, & that the 1st XI was better than the last time we graced the Prem (at least not all my season ticket holder friends, and all those I speak to at home matches / friends & family - not 1 person thought we had improved the quality of our 1st XI prior to the season starting & the late arrival of some players) after losing our top 2 quality players Skipp & Beundia

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50 minutes ago, Kingston Yellow said:

I’m referring to you suggesting that McNally had “nothing to show” for his time at the helm. Quite frankly, that was a ridiculous thing to say.

McNally’s priorities were different. Saving the club was his and Bowcott’s priority. And their win rate in the prem far outstrips the current leadership’s.

 

 

I think you're blurring the lines between the responsibility of manager and sporting director (or chief exec, in McNally's case). I'd argue that the win rate is more down to the manager, than the suits. Of course, they all have input into recruitment etc but it's the manager who picks the team, formation, tactics etc.

Granted, Webber's recruitment in the first PL season was dodgey but they were inexpensive mistakes. They didn't cripple the club, unlike Naismith and RVW. We were able to rebuild.

When I say 'nothing to show' for his time here, I primarily mean that they didn't use any of the PL money to invest in the club's infrastructure, apart from increasing the CR capacity.

Whilst the club was in a better place than when McNally found it (rock bottom and nearly bust), the club was also in financial trouble when he left and he didn't improve the club's infrastructure.

It's the same with (ironically) Huddersfield. Two years in the PL and they're now in exactly in the same position as they were before - stuck in the Championship with below par facilities. They didn't develop the club at all.

Webber has openly criticised this, saying that it was criminal that we had two years of PL money and we didn't invest in Colney. His exact term was that we 'p!ssed it up against the wall'. DF describes it as the sins of the past. Our gym was in a leaky conservatory that only three players could use at any one time. The youth team had to use portakabins. The training pitch was on a slope.

Again, I like DM and am full of respect of the meteroic rise that he and Lambert experienced but he was by no means flawless.

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1 minute ago, Yellow and Green said:

I think you're blurring the lines between the responsibility of manager and sporting director (or chief exec, in McNally's case). I'd argue that the win rate is more down to the manager, than the suits. Of course, they all have input into recruitment etc but it's the manager who picks the team, formation, tactics etc.

Granted, Webber's recruitment in the first PL season was dodgey but they were inexpensive mistakes. They didn't cripple the club, unlike Naismith and RVW. We were able to rebuild.

When I say 'nothing to show' for his time here, I primarily mean that they didn't use any of the PL money to invest in the club's infrastructure, apart from increasing the CR capacity.

Whilst the club was in a better place than when McNally found it (rock bottom and nearly bust), the club was also in financial trouble when he left and he didn't improve the club's infrastructure.

It's the same with (ironically) Huddersfield. Two years in the PL and they're now in exactly in the same position as they were before - stuck in the Championship with below par facilities. They didn't develop the club at all.

Webber has openly criticised this, saying that it was criminal that we had two years of PL money and we didn't invest in Colney. His exact term was that we 'p!ssed it up against the wall'. DF describes it as the sins of the past. Our gym was in a leaky conservatory that only three players could use at any one time. The youth team had to use portakabins. The training pitch was on a slope.

Again, I like DM and am full of respect of the meteroic rise that he and Lambert experienced but he was by no means flawless.

I agree with a lot of this but you've failed to account for the fact it was players which Mcnally purchased which has allowed Webber to make these investments. He's not been able to do it on the back of signings he has made. 

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1 minute ago, priceyrice said:

I agree with a lot of this but you've failed to account for the fact it was players which Mcnally purchased which has allowed Webber to make these investments. He's not been able to do it on the back of signings he has made. 

Very true but the Colney redevelopments were paid for by the Canary Bond Scheme.

The Maddison money was used to pay off the debts accumilated from the Naismith/Klose/overpaid squad splurge + a few signings.

Again, I don't mean to hammer McNally but he very openly focused all of the PL money on transfers. That's completely understandable but it was boom or bust. Webber's strategy was to grow the club (and secure its long-term future), even if we were relegated.

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32 minutes ago, priceyrice said:

I agree with a lot of this but you've failed to account for the fact it was players which Mcnally purchased which has allowed Webber to make these investments. He's not been able to do it on the back of signings he has made. 

Precisely.

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Webber has spent 5 years digging McNally out but DM took us from League One to three successive seasons in the PL and he also got us straight back up when we did go down. He never finished bottom of the PL and he never finished in the bottom half of the champs as Webber did in season one. At this point in time, McNally's CV with us looks better and Webber is starting to look like the Buendia signing has fluffed up what has actually been pretty average.

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6 hours ago, Pugin said:

'Is he a man or a wimp' is social media in a nutshell.

Yes, Daniel has lost his way. For whatever reasons his man management has failed him and failed this group of players. Maybe he is right and they are wrong. Maybe individual treatment of players has been correct. Maybe not.

Daniel continues to say what he continues to say, in the way he continues to say it, and it doesn't work with this group of players. But Daniel is who he is. His voice is his voice  his style is his style.

But to suggest that ditching him is a matter of bravery is wrong. Stuart Webber needs to assess the Risk. Then have a succession plan. Then consider the mechanics. Then go through the difficult decision making process and if he gets a thumbs up, proceed. And yes, at every stage he may be hurting as he is terminating the immediate career of someone he respects and who may be a friend. In a working career of a number of decades I have only come across two flawed  people who enjoy sacking people. 

It deserves more than being reduced to 'wimp' or 'not a wimp' summary.

 

 

Great post. Webber knows it's a results business but given his constant "ignore the noise" mantra he won't do anything knee jerk. I suspect he knows that the Leeds game is pivotal - unless the performance is a massive improvement, he must know that he will have to dismiss a great friend and colleague. I have been where he is, in having to take such a decision, and it's horrible.

Recognising that it has to be done is not bravery - all parties will understand. But it is often the end of something, as it would be in this case, and he won't do it because a couple of hundred fans say he should on social media or a messageboard.

Personally, I think we, as supporters, owe Farke a little more time and I think he will get it unless Carrow Road turns at the Leeds match. I think the crowd will be very supportive to begin with, but if the players don't turn up again he will be left with no other option.

I am equally sure he will have a successor lined up before he does anything, if it becomes necessary.

Like everyone else, I think yesterday's performance was pretty much the last straw. There is no excuse for those players who failed to even close down space or attempt tackles. That is a management problem.

We will see if the players are still playing for him against Leeds.

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1 hour ago, Yellow and Green said:

Very true but the Colney redevelopments were paid for by the Canary Bond Scheme.

The Maddison money was used to pay off the debts accumilated from the Naismith/Klose/overpaid squad splurge + a few signings.

Again, I don't mean to hammer McNally but he very openly focused all of the PL money on transfers. That's completely understandable but it was boom or bust. Webber's strategy was to grow the club (and secure its long-term future), even if we were relegated.

Exactly this.

And whilst Lewis, Aarons and Godfrey were at the club already, we had only really heard of Godfrey from being on loan at York or something. Its still under Webbers tenure with the manager he appointed that he turned these young players into multi million pound assets.

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A few days ago we had posters comparing Delia to Chase, now we have Webber v McNally, I find it all a bit odd, but human nature I suppose.

Like Chase, McNally deserves some credit for the part he played in our history - he was probably exactly what we needed in May 2009, but come May 2016 the club, football and the world had moved on.

And if McNally was that good, would he not still be working in football rather than running a restaurant? Just a thought.

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