How many more games before Farke &/or Webber needs to go?!

[norfolkngood 1,086]

5 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I only agree with your last sentence.

How can you call relegation a complete and utter failure? Three teams have to get relegated from the Premier League. Give our resources compared to the rest of the league, anything better than relegation would be punching above our weight and therefore a massive achievement for Farke; manager of the season sort of performance.

At the end of the day, each team has a "par" position in where they should finish in the league. It's not an exact science, but almost all neutral observers would probably have our "par" as 18th or 19th.  If Farke finishes 18th and within touching distance of 17th, he'd have achieved what is expected with the available resources. That's not a complete and utter failure. It's completely and utterly devastating, but that's more due to the iniquity of modern football than Farke's ability as a coach.

At the moment we're tracking towards last place and a worst points total than last time, that would be a complete and utter failure. But the green shoots of recovery are starting to show, even if they are barely visible above the soil at present. If we're still tracking towards last place and a worst points total come December, then you can start to make a case that Farke staying makes a below par end of season position inevitable and talk about giving him the boot. If we're still in touching distance of safety come Christmas, despite still being in the bottom three, then he shouldn't be sacked.

Yes But a very Good Coach / Manager overachieves Farke is not in the PL championship yes but this looks a step to far 

we have seen it before with lambert and other managers it can be done come up to PL and stay here 

Farke is failing in the PL 

we all know we have a team that will fill one of the bottom 5/6 places but farke is Rock bottom every time in the PL 

 

[king canary 7,580]

11 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

A pretty ****ing good strike rate.

I think the interesting thing is he's never had to sack and replace a manager he's appointed. That would be a new challenge for him.

[canarydan23 4,060]

6 minutes ago, komakino said:

If it looks like he cannot do that - and so far that's looking like that will be the case - then he has failed and you don't continue to employ somebody who has failed their objective, whether football or anything else.

That's not true. Guardiola would have been given the objective to win the Premier League in the 2019/20 season. He's still in the same job. There are probably three managers who have been given the objective of winning the Premier League this season, only one can. That doesn't mean whoever doesn't win the league out of Guardiola, Tuchel and Klopp will get the sack.

 

[CirclePoint 200]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Sorry finishing bottom is a complete and utter failure. As is relegation. As is our current position. If we remain winless for much longer then we must change it. 

From a fan's perspective, you are 100% correct.

But if the business model is to be a financially self-sufficient, top 26 team were young talent is bought cheap, developed and show cased in the NCFC store front window for other clubs to buy at an insane profit, then it would have to be acknowledged that the plan is working.

It's a matter of perspective. As a fan.....it sucks. But maybe the plan isn't to be a stable premier league team. It seems NCFC are perfecting the profitable art of yo-yoing.

 

And to add...... Does anyone actually think we'll ever win the Premier League, or the FA Cup, or challenge in Europe? As fans we'd be happy with mid-table mediocrity for a while, but that's our ceiling in our current set-up. Mid table mediocrity simple means hemorrhaging millions of pounds. So, it looks like NCFC are taking an alternative route.

What can be said is that NCFC have at least tried harder this go around in the Prem than before.

Edited October 21, 2021 by CirclePoint

[Hardhouse44 261]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

Lol, sacking Farke and Webber would have the general footballing world absolutely laughing at us.

What  more than they are now?

[Hardhouse44 261]

Farke has credit in the bank. I think we all recognise that. I think that credit extends further with Delia and the gang that it will with the paying punter. 
 

Nobody wants to see a manager who has delivered a certain level of success sacked. However that level isn’t something that hasn’t been achieved by managers of NCFC before and will be again. What we haven’t seen is even a rough grip on the required level of performance at premiership level. 
 

If all of these new signing are the real deal and the ammunition required to make a reasonable fist of surviving then at some stage soon questions must be asked as to why they are not. 
 

For me I very much doubt that they are the required level but it’s the manager who uses what he has at his disposal. And Farke for me had used them poorly and lacks the ability to organise them to even looking like being good enough to beat even our closest matched rivals. 
 

I would say no more games is what should be allowed. Time for a change. But that won’t happen because of the credit with the board. What will sway it will be how much the decent from the fans on terraces increases as we continue to see no wins and no goals. 
 

Leeds game will be interesting. 

[Samwam27 519]

I thought the remit had moved on from top 26 club. Am sure Webber said we'd achieved that and now the goal was to establish ourselves in the Premiership.

I agree Farke has credit in the bank, and will be given time to turn things round. Shame along come Chelsea just as we'd got the 2 x draws, but at least Lukaku and Werner are both out (probably means Havertz will come in and grab a hat-trick!)

Would love to grab another draw/clean sheet at Chelsea. Now that would be a good result and hero's are needed!

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

27 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Farke has credit in the bank. I think we all recognise that. I think that credit extends further with Delia and the gang that it will with the paying punter. 
 

Nobody wants to see a manager who has delivered a certain level of success sacked. However that level isn’t something that hasn’t been achieved by managers of NCFC before and will be again. What we haven’t seen is even a rough grip on the required level of performance at premiership level. 
 

If all of these new signing are the real deal and the ammunition required to make a reasonable fist of surviving then at some stage soon questions must be asked as to why they are not. 
 

For me I very much doubt that they are the required level but it’s the manager who uses what he has at his disposal. And Farke for me had used them poorly and lacks the ability to organise them to even looking like being good enough to beat even our closest matched rivals. 
 

I would say no more games is what should be allowed. Time for a change. But that won’t happen because of the credit with the board. What will sway it will be how much the decent from the fans on terraces increases as we continue to see no wins and no goals. 
 

Leeds game will be interesting. 

I think the Leeds game could be the turning point. Assuming we lose at Chelsea, then Leeds is a virtually must win. Lose it and we will be at least 7 points adrift.

I want us to survive in this league with Farke as Head Coach, but more than that I want us to survive in this league, this season. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Just to be clear I don’t want Farke sacked but if we don’t win a game in the next 3/4 then I don’t see what choice we have if we want to really try and stay in this division. As much as I like the guy I’m not happy to see us just waste an entire season “giving him time” and I don’t think he would be odds on to lead us back up another time again if this season has gone badly. 
 

I want us to roll the dice this season if it comes to it. 

[Besthorpe-48 102]

On 21/10/2021 at 10:20, dylanisabaddog said:

About 200 hopefully. At least 

500 should see me retire permanently. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

On 21/10/2021 at 18:18, Capt. Pants said:

I think the Leeds game could be the turning point. Assuming we lose at Chelsea, then Leeds is a virtually must win. Lose it and we will be at least 7 points adrift.

I want us to survive in this league with Farke as Head Coach, but more than that I want us to survive in this league, this season. 

You say you want to survive in the league, this season, but would another coach do any better?  Is there another coach that can command the same respect that Farke does?  Is there another coach out there who has the experience of the PL, who has shown he can keep a team in this league?  Please don't say Steve Bruce, or I'll be forced to say Chris Hughton!  And we don't go to either of those and I'd go as far as saying I would rather give it another go in the championship with Farke, than bring in someone unknown.

We all want to survive, but the truth is that -  like it or not - the most likely way of doing it is with Farke at the helm. We have an almost totally fit squad, some excellent players and if anyone can get the best out of them it is DF.  It may still not be enough, but there aren't many alternatives that make any logical sense.  We know he can get a team together and get the best out of them. Ok, it didn't work last time we were in the PL, but the odds - and circumstances - were stacked against us almost from day one of that season. 

[City 2nd 191]

On 21/10/2021 at 09:17, ricardo said:

Forget it, its not going to happen.

This is correct most definitely. But watch the support dwindle. It will happen as the majority are now fed up with the inconsistencies being delivered!

[non-scoring strikers 113]

6 hours ago, lake district canary said:

You say you want to survive in the league, this season, but would another coach do any better?  Is there another coach that can command the same respect that Farke does?  Is there another coach out there who has the experience of the PL, who has shown he can keep a team in this league?  Please don't say Steve Bruce, or I'll be forced to say Chris Hughton!  And we don't go to either of those and I'd go as far as saying I would rather give it another go in the championship with Farke, than bring in someone unknown.

We all want to survive, but the truth is that -  like it or not - the most likely way of doing it is with Farke at the helm. We have an almost totally fit squad, some excellent players and if anyone can get the best out of them it is DF.  It may still not be enough, but there aren't many alternatives that make any logical sense.  We know he can get a team together and get the best out of them. Ok, it didn't work last time we were in the PL, but the odds - and circumstances - were stacked against us almost from day one of that season. 

'command respect' 

Eh?

He freezes out good players on a whim because they've hurt his feelings, he can't make a substitution and he takes eons to learn lessons. 

This is all to the detriment of our football club. 

[Gordon Bennett 780]

34 minutes ago, non-scoring strikers said:

He freezes out good players on a whim because they've hurt his feelings

😂

This is the main problem with our message board, people making stuff up, its like Chinese whispers, others will read it and go with it because it sounds good. The idea that he picks the team based on anything other than winning the game is ridiculous, we may not all agree with who he selects but its to give in his mind the best chance to get a result. Its very simple yet people seem to want to complicate things to make themselves feel better, very odd.

[essex canary 491]

On 21/10/2021 at 16:48, komakino said:

Respectively disagree. 

If I were Smith & Jones, I would have said to Farke - for this season - 'Your remit is to keep us in the league. That's what you're employed to do.'

If it looks like he cannot do that - and so far that's looking like that will be the case - then he has failed and you don't continue to employ somebody who has failed their objective, whether football or anything else. 

Two seasons ago he was not financially supported and I would have had more respect for him if he had of walked this summer, but he has no excuses now. 

It could be possible that Delia - and its ultimately her decision - will give him until the end of the season regardless, but for my money, he hasn't shown enough nous to get the club out of the relegation zone as he too methodical. 

 

Farke has the excuse today that he needs his 12th man - the crowd and the Club has decreed that the Norwich support is less than it could have been. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

You say you want to survive in the league, this season, but would another coach do any better?  Is there another coach that can command the same respect that Farke does?  Is there another coach out there who has the experience of the PL, who has shown he can keep a team in this league?  Please don't say Steve Bruce, or I'll be forced to say Chris Hughton!  And we don't go to either of those and I'd go as far as saying I would rather give it another go in the championship with Farke, than bring in someone unknown.

We all want to survive, but the truth is that -  like it or not - the most likely way of doing it is with Farke at the helm. We have an almost totally fit squad, some excellent players and if anyone can get the best out of them it is DF.  It may still not be enough, but there aren't many alternatives that make any logical sense.  We know he can get a team together and get the best out of them. Ok, it didn't work last time we were in the PL, but the odds - and circumstances - were stacked against us almost from day one of that season. 

Yes. Another coach would do better than we have served up so far this season. That said, hopefully he can build on the two recent draws snd turn it around. 

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

You say you want to survive in the league, this season, but would another coach do any better?  Is there another coach that can command the same respect that Farke does?  Is there another coach out there who has the experience of the PL, who has shown he can keep a team in this league?  Please don't say Steve Bruce, or I'll be forced to say Chris Hughton!  And we don't go to either of those and I'd go as far as saying I would rather give it another go in the championship with Farke, than bring in someone unknown.

We all want to survive, but the truth is that -  like it or not - the most likely way of doing it is with Farke at the helm. We have an almost totally fit squad, some excellent players and if anyone can get the best out of them it is DF.  It may still not be enough, but there aren't many alternatives that make any logical sense.  We know he can get a team together and get the best out of them. Ok, it didn't work last time we were in the PL, but the odds - and circumstances - were stacked against us almost from day one of that season. 

We don't know he's getting the best out of them, you don't know he's getting the best out of them. I go as far as to day we were doing better last time round with a weaker squad.

I hope there is more to come from this team, and from Farke. 

[Commonsense 618]

On 21/10/2021 at 15:04, Jim Smith said:

Sorry finishing bottom is a complete and utter failure. As is relegation. As is our current position. If we remain winless for much longer then we must change it. 

So is not at least having a go at the Champions league, and winning the Prem on the way. A club with our resources starting with the fixtures we did should be walking  it. Either that or some of the posters on this board are morons. Which do you think it is?

Edited October 23, 2021 by Commonsense
Spelling

[king canary 7,580]

5 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

So is not at least having a go at the Champions league, and winning the Prem on the way. A club with our resources starting with the fixtures we did should be walking  it. Either that or some of the posters on this board are morons. Which do you think it is?

What's more moronic, someone saying finishing bottom is a failure, or someone claiming that is somehow equivalent to saying we should be winning the league?

[hogesar 9,618]

To be honest, with the fixtures we've had, I dont know what sort of manager we could have got that would have made a massive difference. We were close against Leicester but they had that bit more quality. I guess a new coach potentially, on the basis of pretty much nothing, could have got us a win against Watford. Everything else has been pretty par for course.

Worth remembering its not just us this season. Look at how few points the bottom 5 or 6 have. Masterclass manager Bielsa with a better side have amassed a total of 4 points more. Newcastle one more. The experienced Dyche and Burnley. Dyche and Bielsa proven at this level but not really delivering more than Farke, and if you look at the relevant fixtures we've arguably had a slightly more difficult run in too.

[Hardhouse44 261]

19 minutes ago, hogesar said:

To be honest, with the fixtures we've had, I dont know what sort of manager we could have got that would have made a massive difference. We were close against Leicester but they had that bit more quality. I guess a new coach potentially, on the basis of pretty much nothing, could have got us a win against Watford. Everything else has been pretty par for course.

Worth remembering its not just us this season. Look at how few points the bottom 5 or 6 have. Masterclass manager Bielsa with a better side have amassed a total of 4 points more. Newcastle one more. The experienced Dyche and Burnley. Dyche and Bielsa proven at this level but not really delivering more than Farke, and if you look at the relevant fixtures we've arguably had a slightly more difficult run in too.

Its not the points I’m really worried about, obviously the points total is abysmal but it’s the goals for that really strikes me as being the big issue. We just don’t score at this level under Farke. 
 

We don’t even pick up the odd consolation goal and lose 3-1 after going 3 down. You know what I mean. 

[City 2nd 191]

3 hours ago, Gordon Bennett said:

😂

This is the main problem with our message board, people making stuff up, its like Chinese whispers, others will read it and go with it because it sounds good. The idea that he picks the team based on anything other than winning the game is ridiculous, we may not all agree with who he selects but its to give in his mind the best chance to get a result. Its very simple yet people seem to want to complicate things to make themselves feel better, very odd.

You are having a laugh GB! The most creative player in the squad Cantwell played for the U23 last night! (And scored)! And that same player can’t play at Chelsea! 

[City 2nd 191]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

What's more moronic, someone saying finishing bottom is a failure, or someone claiming that is somehow equivalent to saying we should be winning the league?

Finishing bottom is a failure to a club who are attempting to consolidate their position in the premier league. ask Mr Webber!

[Jim Smith 2,314]

17 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Its not the points I’m really worried about, obviously the points total is abysmal but it’s the goals for that really strikes me as being the big issue. We just don’t score at this level under Farke. 
 

We don’t even pick up the odd consolation goal and lose 3-1 after going 3 down. You know what I mean. 

For me it’s how we’ve played. Just don’t look comfortable in what we are trying to do at all. That, coupled with no wins from games we could have won, is disappointing. 

[TheBaldOne66 681]

On 21/10/2021 at 13:00, hogesar said:

Lol, sacking Farke and Webber would have the general footballing world absolutely laughing at us.

When they aren’t already you mean? 🤣🤣

[lake district canary 4,531]

21 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

When they aren’t already you mean? 🤣🤣

Troll off back to 1p5wich and laugh at your own team.

[Monty13 2,229]

On 21/10/2021 at 09:17, ricardo said:

Forget it, its not going to happen.

I think you are probably right Ricardo, but if the worst happens and we are rock bottom at Christmas with only 1 or 2 wins considering our run after Chelsea it’s going to start getting spicy again.

[fredherring 136]

Lose to Brentford and its indefensible. 

[fredherring 136]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

I think you are probably right Ricardo, but if the worst happens and we are rock bottom at Christmas with only 1 or 2 wins considering our run after Chelsea it’s going to start getting spicy again.

One or two wins? 

How do those happen? 

[TheBaldOne66 681]

12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

You say you want to survive in the league, this season, but would another coach do any better?  Is there another coach that can command the same respect that Farke does?  Is there another coach out there who has the experience of the PL, who has shown he can keep a team in this league?  Please don't say Steve Bruce, or I'll be forced to say Chris Hughton!  And we don't go to either of those and I'd go as far as saying I would rather give it another go in the championship with Farke, than bring in someone unknown.

We all want to survive, but the truth is that -  like it or not - the most likely way of doing it is with Farke at the helm. We have an almost totally fit squad, some excellent players and if anyone can get the best out of them it is DF.  It may still not be enough, but there aren't many alternatives that make any logical sense.  We know he can get a team together and get the best out of them. Ok, it didn't work last time we were in the PL, but the odds - and circumstances - were stacked against us almost from day one of that season. 

Stop making excuses! Second time around and he’s learnt diddly squat from first time around. He’s a failure at the top level, his stats don’t lie!

 

As for another coach at EPL level, you’d rather stick with a proven failure than another guy getting a chance? 
 

That’s why we are little old Norwich and always will be, until the mindset of the people associated with the club, fans, owners etc have a different mindset instead of accepting abject failure at the top level, we always will be ridiculed at the top level, but if you and others enjoy that, that’s fine, I don’t want that, I just want a sustained attempt at establishing us in the top flight for once.