Question for the clappers

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

Before we kicked a ball this season I stated my firm belief that we hadn’t learnt any lessons. Our midfield still lacked physicality, we were signing small young players with an eye on future sales rather than making a proper fist of it, and we lacked proven goal scorers beyond an ageing Pukki at this level. I was loudly attacked for being a moaner. 
 

fast forward and everything I predicted has come to pass. But instead of saying / fair enough you had a point / I STILL get attacked for being a moaner/negative!! 
 

So my question is - am I meant to cheer our worst ever start to a season and rejoice in it? Am I meant to delight in having spent a fortune on new players who don’t even get picked come October because they don’t fit the system we are playing.  Or is there a point where criticism of the board is reasonable and, if so, when is that? 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Dean Coneys boots

[dylanisabaddog 6,147]

You think PLM and Normann are small...... 

[Ian 1,212]

7 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Before we kicked a ball this season I stated my firm belief that we hadn’t learnt any lessons. Our midfield still lacked physicality, we were signing small young players with an eye on future sales rather than making a proper fist of it, and we lacked proven goal scorers beyond an ageing Pukki at this level. I was loudly attacked for being a moaner. 
 

fast forward and everything I predicted has come to pass. But instead of saying / fair enough you had a point / I STILL get attacked for being a moaner/negative!! 
 

So my question is - am I meant to cheer our worst ever start to a season and rejoice in it? Am I meant to delight in having spent a fortune on new players who don’t even get picked come October because they don’t fit the system we are playing.  Or is there a point where criticism of the board is reasonable and, if so, when is that? 

You're brilliant, well done you.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

14 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

You think PLM and Normann are small...... 

I think Normann was exactly what we needed- but can’t do it alone. I think our midfield with those 2 best players are still short when it comes to competing in this division. Look at the stats 

 

but that wasn’t my question

Edited October 19, 2021 by Dean Coneys boots

[1902 1,167]

12 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I think Normann was exactly what we needed- but can’t do it alone. I think our midfield with those 2 best players are still short when it comes to competing in this division. Look at the stats 

PLM is 6'1" and really doesn't look physically incapable of playing at this level now he's up to speed.

Of the other players we have bought. Sargent, Kabak are also both over 6', again both of them have shown themselves to have the pace and strength required for this league.  A lack of physicality is really not the issue in our side this season, which was your main gripe.

So no I'm not going to give you credit for producing a wishlist of things that you would like but probably weren't possible. I'd have loved a proven goalscorer who was going to score 15 goals this season, but the reality is that they aren't available for the majority of lower premier league sides.

Sometimes you buy someone from Belgium, France, The Netherlands or Spain and they take to the premier league like a duck to water, but the league has been littered with 20 goal a season strikers from elsewhere who have done sod all in this division. There's no guarantee.

Edited October 19, 2021 by 1902

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

I’m not wanting to ask who is big enough on paper- I am questioning at what point of failure fans are allowed to criticise? Given that many on here are very aggressive if anyone dares do that despite the very bleak backdrop 

[Jim Smith 2,610]

23 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

You think PLM and Normann are small...... 

To be honest PLM is the embodiment of where we have not got it quite right. He’s not bad, he’s a useful enough squad player who covers good amounts of ground but we needed a genuine powerhouse (or maybe two) in the middle and from the moment you first saw him you could see he’s not that, he just doesn’t have the build for it. 
 

I get the impression his signing was an opportunity that came up snd we thought we’d take a punt rather than part of the strategy. 

[1902 1,167]

Just now, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’m not wanting to ask who is big enough on paper- I am questioning at what point of failure fans are allowed to criticise? Given that many on here are very aggressive if anyone dares do that despite the very bleak backdrop 

You have literally started a "I told you so" thread about something nobody ever disputed (that we would love an out and out goalscorer who will definitely replace Pukki and net a lot this season) and about something that isn't true (that we are too weak and slow.) 

What do you expect, a medal? Give over man. 

You always had the right to criticise, we also have the right to say your criticisms were either not that realistic or misplaced. If you don't want to have your opinions challenged, don't write on a forum.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

Fans are allowed to criticise at all times, but if their rationale is lousy, it also deserves to be called out. That's the whole nature of forum discussion.

[1902 1,167]

Just now, Jim Smith said:

To be honest PLM is the embodiment of where we have not got it quite right. He’s not bad, he’s a useful enough squad player who covers good amounts of ground but we needed a genuine powerhouse (or maybe two) in the middle and from the moment you first saw him you could see he’s not that, he just doesn’t have the build for it. 
 

I get the impression his signing was an opportunity that came up snd we thought we’d take a punt rather than part of the strategy. 

I disagree with this, he makes a lot of tackles, maybe not crunching Vierra-esque ones, but he covers his ground and gets his foot in. As part of a midfield three he adds a lot of balance. 

[hogesar 10,765]

No idea what a 'clapper' is beyond someone who supports their team but either way you're absolutely tragic.

What you actually said on 31st August was:

On 31/08/2021 at 07:26, Dean Coneys boots said:

Fair credit to the board. Those two signings have turned this into a very solid transfer window indeed- perhaps the best I can remember on paper. Bravo Webber two days have totally plugged the gaps. My bad for doubting! 

Don’t know much (anything) about Normann but hope he is the CDM we are crying out for. Kabak is a huge signing for us- marquee. 
 

You said it was the best transfer window you can remember.

Let's not pretend you had some insight beyond everyone else because we all know that's false and proven above.

[1902 1,167]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

No idea what a 'clapper' is beyond someone who supports their team but either way you're absolutely tragic.

What you actually said on 31st August was:

You said it was the best transfer window you can remember.

Let's not pretend you had some insight beyond everyone else because we all know that's false and proven above.

Brilliant.

[Uncle Fred 526]

I said early into the window that we were having a really really poor window, I have once again proven to be right 

why Webber couldn’t see it I will never know 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

No idea what a 'clapper' is beyond someone who supports their team but either way you're absolutely tragic.

What you actually said on 31st August was:

You said it was the best transfer window you can remember.

Let's not pretend you had some insight beyond everyone else because we all know that's false and proven above.

Think you will find I made ONE solitary post where, buoyed by the signings of Kabak and Normann, I felt more optimistic. They remain our best signings. But overall my message was that we needed a major physical upgrade and that we had focused on deepening the squad when we should have improved the XI. I was also extremely critical of the sale of Emi which, coupled with loss of Skipp, made it two steps back before we took one forward 

[lake district canary 4,830]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’m not wanting to ask who is big enough on paper- I am questioning at what point of failure fans are allowed to criticise? Given that many on here are very aggressive if anyone dares do that despite the very bleak backdrop 

It's a question of how often and how repetitive people's posts are.  If you complain too often and loudly and fail to take on board anything people say about a bigger picture, then you will just be seen as a noise maker with nothing to say other than being negative. It works the other way too, like if I make too many positive posts, without seeming to take on board the way people of other views take, it upsets those people and I get a negative reaction. 

The answer is to try and be level headed and try and see both sides of the argument, show that you understand that there is another way of looking at the situation and then you might not get such a reaction to your posts, but if you just want to see bleakness and doom and gloom, you will get a reaction, just the same as I do when I go too far the other way.

I understand that people feel negative and even despondent when they see us struggling, but for some reason, when I see us doing badly, I see it as an opportunity for us to do better.  Our squad has some excellent players and potential in the terms of the young players we have, so I would prefer - always - to look forwards to the next game to see how we develop, see how we can improve.

Its a process, not a cut and dried situation where things will always be bad, so ultimately, it is - imo - up to all of us to try and see beyond our emotions of what happens when things go badly and see the possibilities for improvement. 

It's not all doom and gloom, but that is what you and some others seem to want to foist on all of us. Show that you understand there is another way of looking at it and you might get a bit more understanding for your own point of view.  We get it. we're in a difficult place when we are struggling so much...........but really, the struggle is what it is all about! 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

Fair point lakey- I guess I’m struggling to see the balance though. We are dead certs for the drop at present- which means we will probably lose the only two players who have made us better - Kabak and Normann- because they are only loans. We then look like we are back at stage one to me. The project which we all got behind will manifestly have failed us. 

[1902 1,167]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Think you will find I made ONE solitary post where, buoyed by the signings of Kabak and Normann, I felt more optimistic. They remain our best signings. But overall my message was that we needed a major physical upgrade and that we had focused on deepening the squad when we should have improved the XI. I was also extremely critical of the sale of Emi which, coupled with loss of Skipp, made it two steps back before we took one forward 

So that's one player who we had no option of keeping (Skipp) one player who didn't want to play for us (Buendia), two players you agree are good purchases (Kabak and Normann) and two players who you just ignore their physical ability because it doesn't suit you (Sargent and PLM). 

Let's also take note of the absolute sure fire fact that had we adopted the opposing strategy, of buying 2 or 3 players, you would have asked (quite rightly) what the hell we would do if Krul, Aarons, Pukki, Gibson, McLean etc. had an injury. We went down last time because we lacked depth and now everyone complains we have invested too much in depth and not enough in quality. Webber can't do wrong from right.

[wcorkcanary 4,784]

35 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’m not wanting to ask who is big enough on paper- I am questioning at what point of failure fans are allowed to criticise? Given that many on here are very aggressive if anyone dares do that despite the very bleak backdrop 

There are no rules, you state  your opinion and either get agreement or opposition. 

Thing is  , you can whinge and gripe as much as you wish, no one in any position to make any changes wil listen. So Pi$$ away, the wind will last longer than your weak bladder.

How frustrated you must be 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

6 minutes ago, 1902 said:

So that's one player who we had no option of keeping (Skipp) one player who didn't want to play for us (Buendia), two players you agree are good purchases (Kabak and Normann) and two players who you just ignore their physical ability because it doesn't suit you (Sargent and PLM). 

Let's also take note of the absolute sure fire fact that had we adopted the opposing strategy, of buying 2 or 3 players, you would have asked (quite rightly) what the hell we would do if Krul, Aarons, Pukki, Gibson, McLean etc. had an injury. We went down last time because we lacked depth and now everyone complains we have invested too much in depth and not enough in quality. Webber can't do wrong from right.

I agree. We can’t do wrong from right. Hence criticisms of a board that look increasingly out of date and unable to move the club forward. National 90s millionaire leadership in an era of global billionaire football 

[1902 1,167]

5 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I agree. We can’t do wrong from right. Hence criticisms of a board that look increasingly out of date and unable to move the club forward. National 90s millionaire leadership in an era of global billionaire football 

So it's not the window, not Webber, not who we bought, not the lack of physicality. It's that we aren't rich enough. 

Something that about 100 people have said about 10,000 times on this forum.

Some clairvoyant you are 

[PurpleCanary 6,386]

22 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Fair point lakey- I guess I’m struggling to see the balance though. We are dead certs for the drop at present- which means we will probably lose the only two players who have made us better - Kabak and Normann- because they are only loans. We then look like we are back at stage one to me. The project which we all got behind will manifestly have failed us. 

You are on record here as saying your idea of being a balanced poster is not to post when things are going well and only to do so when they are going badly. That may help explain the reaction to your contributions.

[Badger 2,745]

52 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Fans are allowed to criticise at all times

That's exactly what DCB does!😀

[Badger 2,745]

31 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

We are dead certs for the drop at present-

What do you mean by "at present." Is this you allowing yourself some wriggle room to get off the hook? Are we dead certs or not?

[interwebme 60]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Before we kicked a ball this season I stated my firm belief that we hadn’t learnt any lessons. Our midfield still lacked physicality, we were signing small young players with an eye on future sales rather than making a proper fist of it, and we lacked proven goal scorers beyond an ageing Pukki at this level. I was loudly attacked for being a moaner. 
 

fast forward and everything I predicted has come to pass. But instead of saying / fair enough you had a point / I STILL get attacked for being a moaner/negative!! 
 

So my question is - am I meant to cheer our worst ever start to a season and rejoice in it? Am I meant to delight in having spent a fortune on new players who don’t even get picked come October because they don’t fit the system we are playing.  Or is there a point where criticism of the board is reasonable and, if so, when is that? 

⭐

That's for you. Good job buddy. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

We desperately needed another thread revelling in our "worst ever start".

Have you considered therapy? 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

26 minutes ago, Badger said:

What do you mean by "at present." Is this you allowing yourself some wriggle room to get off the hook? Are we dead certs or not?

Yes we are

[mannings bandy legs 439]

2 hours ago, 1902 said:

PLM is 6'1" and really doesn't look physically incapable of playing at this level now he's up to speed.

Of the other players we have bought. Sargent, Kabak are also both over 6', again both of them have shown themselves to have the pace and strength required for this league.  A lack of physicality is really not the issue in our side this season, which was your main gripe.

So no I'm not going to give you credit for producing a wishlist of things that you would like but probably weren't possible. I'd have loved a proven goalscorer who was going to score 15 goals this season, but the reality is that they aren't available for the majority of lower premier league sides.

Sometimes you buy someone from Belgium, France, The Netherlands or Spain and they take to the premier league like a duck to water, but the league has been littered with 20 goal a season strikers from elsewhere who have done sod all in this division. There's no guarantee.

JOELINTON....say no more...

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’m not wanting to ask who is big enough on paper- I am questioning at what point of failure fans are allowed to criticise? Given that many on here are very aggressive if anyone dares do that despite the very bleak backdrop 

You've spent your whole existence on this board criticising. So the answer to the question in your case is ALWAYS. 

[hogesar 10,765]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Think you will find I made ONE solitary post where, buoyed by the signings of Kabak and Normann, I felt more optimistic. They remain our best signings. But overall my message was that we needed a major physical upgrade and that we had focused on deepening the squad when we should have improved the XI. I was also extremely critical of the sale of Emi which, coupled with loss of Skipp, made it two steps back before we took one forward 

Yeah, but in that solitary post your apologised for your previous doubts. So the fact you moaned previous to that, which for you is hardly a revelation anyway, is irrelevant. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,531]

8 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

You've spent your whole existence on this board criticising. So the answer to the question in your case is ALWAYS. 

I was asking when the positive percys begin to question. Perhaps it is never - you can just stick your head in the sand instead. Attack the poster instead of answer the questions