Corners

[Thumbbass 288]

Have we actually taken a decent corner since we beat Man City? Saturday's seemed particularly poor.

When we concede a corner there is a nervous squirm in my stomach, which is easing a little as we seem to be defending them better in the last couple of games. But, when we have a corner ourselves I don't ever feel like we're much of a threat and it always seems a wasted opportunity. It is perhaps is true of our set-plays in general. 

I feel like we have the physicality and height with the 3 cbs and Sargent, McLean, PLM to make the most of these situations. If we're being pragmatic in our approach we can't discount set-plays. If not, why aren't we mixing things up, wolves employed short corners 2 seasons ago to good effect. 

If all else fails perhaps we could get someone in from the front row to take them!

 

 

[cambridgeshire canary 5,496]

To be fair since Vrancic left we have struggled with any kind of set piace taking

[Satriales 300]

Normann looks like he has potential on corners. He was whipping them in, just needs to clear the first defender much better.

[Greavsy 2,338]

The one against Leicester was actually a good corner kick.............

[Thumbbass 288]

9 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

The one against Leicester was actually a good corner kick.............

True.

Normann's dead ball work was a bit under-par this weekend. Can't knock the guy, Emi was also our best player and was hit and miss with a dead ball. 

I just think a pro should be getting set pieces right 95% of the time which doesn't seem to be the case for us. We really need to capitalise on the things we have a level of control over and can plan in advance. Worked for England in the WC anyway.

[Jim Smith 1,934]

Not just corners but free kicks. Hit the first man or straight to the keeper almost every time. In premier league games of small margins (which ours are increasingly becoming) there’s not really any excuse for being so poor at these. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Jim Smith

[Nuff Said 4,286]

Have we ever used Dowell on corners? Given his free kicks, you’d think he could hit a decent one.

[mannings bandy legs 295]

This subject has always been a sore point where City are concerned. For a team like us,who are never going to be freescoring in this league,the opportunity afforded by corners and free-kicks must be taken advantage of, if we are to have any chance of surviving.Just amazes me how bad we are in this area of the game.Also,anybody else noticed how many times we give up possession at throw-ins!

[Thumbbass 288]

7 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Have we ever used Dowell on corners? Given his free kicks, you’d think he could hit a decent one.

I think the most we will see of him is in the FA cup though. I have to admit that I don't know who was taking set pieces before Normann came into the side, possibly McLean. Giannoulis is capable of delivering, now he's forced himself into the side.

I'd like to see us mix it up too. Occasionally coming in short. Our set pieces are predictable and poorly executed at the moment so it can't get any worse.

[interwebme 52]

Only 3% of corners result in goals. 

Not quite the potential goal mine some would make out

Edited October 18, 2021 by interwebme

[1902 1,166]

2 minutes ago, interwebme said:

Only 3% of corners result in goals. 

Not quite the potential goal mine some would make out

Which, if you force 5 corners a game, comes to a total of about 6 goals a season. That's actually quite a lot for a side at the bottom of the table.

[essex canary 352]

10 years ago in our best recent season in the PL with David Fox being a prominent corner taker we scored 11 headed goals. Last 2 seasons in PL we scored 3 and 1 respectively. Just a belief that deadballs and headers are vital to PL survival.

[Thumbbass 288]

3% sounds low on the face of it but how many situations on the pitch have a higher probability other than a through ball into the penalty area? A penalty kick is actually only 75% https://instatsport.com/football/article/penalty_research

Liverpool have/had a throw-in coach. It's not a mystery why as a team their overall play has a certain gloss and that we lack at times, it's in the detail. We should be taking control of the stuff that is easier to coach and deadballs are one.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Thumbbass

[Nuff Said 4,286]

59 minutes ago, mannings bandy legs said:

This subject has always been a sore point where City are concerned. For a team like us,who are never going to be freescoring in this league,the opportunity afforded by corners and free-kicks must be taken advantage of, if we are to have any chance of surviving.Just amazes me how bad we are in this area of the game.Also,anybody else noticed how many times we give up possession at throw-ins!

This! Drives me mad

 

How hard can it me to practice this? Alternatively just get whoever has the longest throw to lob it as far towards the opposition goal as possible, we lose possession from 90% of our throws anyway (made up stat before anyone contradicts me!).

[Sifive 12]

Liverpool brought in a set piece coach about 3 years ago.

definitely something that needs looking at,

hate seeing a free kick around the box either hit the wall or fly over the bar.

i would love to see some originality.   

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Sifive

[Yellow Fever 3,081]

2 hours ago, Thumbbass said:

Have we actually taken a decent corner since we beat Man City? Saturday's seemed particularly poor.

When we concede a corner there is a nervous squirm in my stomach, which is easing a little as we seem to be defending them better in the last couple of games. But, when we have a corner ourselves I don't ever feel like we're much of a threat and it always seems a wasted opportunity. It is perhaps is true of our set-plays in general. 

I feel like we have the physicality and height with the 3 cbs and Sargent, McLean, PLM to make the most of these situations. If we're being pragmatic in our approach we can't discount set-plays. If not, why aren't we mixing things up, wolves employed short corners 2 seasons ago to good effect. 

If all else fails perhaps we could get someone in from the front row to take them!

 

 

I have nervous squirm in my stomach WHEN we get a corner.

It invariably leads to a quick and often very dangerous counter-attack!

[......and Smith must score. 1,050]

We haven't scored direct from a corner since that Man City game which seems a million years ago.

Hope I live to see another one.

[1902 1,166]

7 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

We haven't scored direct from a corner since that Man City game which seems a million years ago.

Hope I live to see another one.

We haven't scored directly from anything in a while tbf.

[Jim Smith 1,934]

Given the supposed focus on marginal gains this is something that should be addressed. Whilst Farke is clearly a good coach in many ways he’s never paid much attention to this sort of stuff. 

[Somerset exile 4]

We have definitely been poor at producing a threat from corners in the last few seasons.

It needs to be addressed asap. We should be getting an extra half dozen goals per season.

( Bring back Malky Mckay )  

[Dr Greenthumb 686]

1 hour ago, Sifive said:

Liverpool brought in a set piece coach about 3 years ago.

definitely something that needs looking at,

hate seeing a free kick around the box either hit the wall or fly over the bar.

i would love to see some originality.   

 

Take a look at Huddersfield’s first goal from the weekend, that was definitely a unique corner set up

[Sifive 12]

14 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Take a look at Huddersfield’s first goal from the weekend, that was definitely a unique corner set up

brilliant.....and simple, just change the angle of attack.

Also could have been 5 pens given. VAR would have ? possible ! 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sifive

[dylanisabaddog 3,515]

Since zonal marking was introduced to European football the number of goals scored from corners has dropped by 80%. That doesn't excuse the fact that we regularly fail to clear the first defender but the simple fact is that it is very rare to see goals scored from corner kicks at the top level. 

What always amazes me is listening to the likes of Keane and Carragher getting paid huge amounts to say they don't like zonal marking. Perhaps it's because they're outside the game looking in but it beggars belief that they don't earn their money and do some research. 

[Robert N. LiM 2,539]

6 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Since zonal marking was introduced to European football the number of goals scored from corners has dropped by 80%. That doesn't excuse the fact that we regularly fail to clear the first defender but the simple fact is that it is very rare to see goals scored from corner kicks at the top level. 

What always amazes me is listening to the likes of Keane and Carragher getting paid huge amounts to say they don't like zonal marking. Perhaps it's because they're outside the game looking in but it beggars belief that they don't earn their money and do some research. 

That's fascinating - what's your source? It's long amused me to hear pundits and people on this forum railing against zonal marking without stopping to think "if every coach at the top level of European football is doing it, maybe I might be wrong".

[Robert N. LiM 2,539]

My corner bugbear is that we always bring every single player back when we're defending them, which gives the attacking team licence to bring as many players forward as they like. If someone can explain why we don't leave Pukki on the halfway line I'd be very grateful.

[Thumbbass 288]

4 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Since zonal marking was introduced to European football the number of goals scored from corners has dropped by 80%. That doesn't excuse the fact that we regularly fail to clear the first defender but the simple fact is that it is very rare to see goals scored from corner kicks at the top level. 

Perhaps also due to the way stats are attributed. If a good ball has been put into the box beyond the front post and is partially cleared but the resulting play ends in a goal, does that count as coming from the corner? 

As you say, delivering a ball that is cleared before reaching the front post is next to useless. I think that counts for the majority of our corners. 

 

[Dr Greenthumb 686]

29 minutes ago, Sifive said:

brilliant.....and simple, just change the angle of attack.

Also could have been 5 pens given. VAR would have ? possible ! 

We don’t have the aerial threat other teams do, mixing up like that is so simple.

there definitely was a lot of wrestling once the players started moving!

[dylanisabaddog 3,515]

12 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

That's fascinating - what's your source? It's long amused me to hear pundits and people on this forum railing against zonal marking without stopping to think "if every coach at the top level of European football is doing it, maybe I might be wrong".

Source was a discussion programme on Radio 5. I think it was the lead football reporter with The Times but Chris Sutton was also involved. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head in that everyone is now doing it which really is the proof that it works. These people lose their jobs if they get simple stuff wrong. 

I recently heard Alan Smith critisize a team for using a small player to "mark" a big player at a corner. He just doesn't understand how the zonal and blocking system works which is shameful bearing in mind that's what he's paid for. 

[Sifive 12]

33 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

My corner bugbear is that we always bring every single player back when we're defending them, which gives the attacking team licence to bring as many players forward as they like. If someone can explain why we don't leave Pukki on the halfway line I'd be very grateful.

it used to depend on how the set up was in regards to having a player on the posts..... it can then leaves 1 or 2 oppo players spare

not sure how that works with zonal marking though. 

 

Mourino had a spell of leaving three players up on the half way line. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Sifive

[Jim Smith 1,934]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

That's fascinating - what's your source? It's long amused me to hear pundits and people on this forum railing against zonal marking without stopping to think "if every coach at the top level of European football is doing it, maybe I might be wrong".

I don't think there is an inherent problem with zonal marking per se, its the way our players were implementing it so literally to the extent that they were more or less ignoring the runners entirely and not handing them on to each other or communicating effectively. A sensible system presumably combines elements of zonal marking (all defending involves zonal marking to a degree) with one or two players also tracking runners but whatever system you play you still need to attack the ball and not just stand there like a statue whilst the forward ghosts in between you and your defensive partner completely unchallenged. 

As good a defender as Hanley is, I do wonder if he needs to be more vocal on the pitch at times - he seems the strong, silent type rather than an organiser.