Wingers instead of wingbacks?

[Mr Angry 1,545]

Firstly, a disclaimer-despite watching football fairly regularly since 1977, I don't really understand formations or tactics so if this is a stupid idea, just tell me without the insults 😀

So, I'm not sure that Max and Dimitris/Brandon have been very effective as wingbacks this season-whether that's because of the opposition we've faced, the lack of options when they do get forward, lack of confidence, instructions from DF, or what, I don't know.

We have spent a fair bit on 2 players who can play as wingers-Milot Rashica and Christos Tzolis. 

Is it worth trying to play with wingers, rather than with wingbacks? I appreciate that it would probably take too long for us to develop this as our main strategy but perhaps in a game like we saw on Saturday, where we had stifled Brighton's attacking threat, it is something to try in the last 30 minutes? Fresh legs and giving the defenders something else to think of, rather than what seem to be like for like substitutions?

I know we don't have much of an aerial threat with our attackers but you don't always have to sling in high crosses-fast and low ones for forwards with good movement can be effective-that's what happened with Maupay's late chance on Saturday.

It might also mean that with the wingbacks playing as right/left backs instead we could possibly revert to 4 at the back as there would be a bit more defensive cover?

Anyway, that's it, I'm just going to look for my tin hat 🤣

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I'm another who has limited understanding but I would say most who post on here are like us.

However for what it's worth I think formations are quite fluid when we have the ball but the shape quickly returns when we don't. Did I see Max as our most forward player a couple of times on Saturday? Once in a position you'd be more likely to associate with a forward?

I often don't understand the categorisation of players on here. I never saw Todd and Emi as 'wide players' and for me Tzolis and Rashica are fast forwards rather than wingers.

[hogesar 9,615]

I thought both Max and Dimi were considerably better Saturday than against Burnley. From Max' interview it seems they're starting to build confidence and play higher up the pitch with the belief Kabak / Gibson are wide CB's to help cover.

[Greavsy 2,412]

28 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I'm another who has limited understanding

Generally Eddie or just football related? 😉 

[Greavsy 2,412]

Was nice to see both full / wing backs getting forward. 

Max had the beating of his man when he ran at him. More of that please. 

[Mr Angry 1,545]

27 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I thought both Max and Dimi were considerably better Saturday than against Burnley. From Max' interview it seems they're starting to build confidence and play higher up the pitch with the belief Kabak / Gibson are wide CB's to help cover.

They may be getting higher up the pitch-in fact I went to both the Everton and Burnley games and both wingbacks made a few runs in both games-but they don’t seem to be able to do that much when they make those runs-obviously the standard of the players they face is better than last season, when they were regularly getting forward but also making telling passes in those positions.

I just wonder whether more sticking players like Rashica and Tzolis would cause more problems if they were brought on sooner (oh dear, now it’s a criticism of DF not making subs early enough 😳).

[Fuzzar 1,702]

12 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Generally Eddie or just football related? 😉 

You're weird Greavsie, 😉. 

[TheGunnShow 5,925]

I think this is more a formation change and having an effective enough shape to go for it. At the same time, Farke's realised he has to sort the defence out whilst also getting Kabak gelled in/everyone used to playing three centre-halves in the Premier League.

So, I tend to take the view that this balance is something that will come with time and greater confidence.

[Greavsy 2,412]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

You're weird Greavsie, 😉. 

Thanks. 

Oh and Its Greavsy - as you know - but im sure you're being obtuse rather than thick though. 

[Fuzzar 1,702]

Just now, Greavsy said:

Thanks. 

Oh and Its Greavsy - as you know - but im sure you're being obtuse rather than thick though. 

Noted Greavsie. 

[Greavsy 2,412]

19 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

Noted Greavsie. 

Thanks Bizzare! 

Did you note the other replies to your comment about peoples forum names, just you didnt reply to them. Maybe its just mine you dont like. Heres a link, just in case you cant find it.

And Mr Angry explained why my forum name is spelt how it is (Thanks) and not misspelt, other than by you. 

now bore off and annoy some-one else. your'e not funny, and we already have a self appointed forum joker (who isn't funny either). 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Greavsy

[BigFish 1,986]

59 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Firstly, a disclaimer-despite watching football fairly regularly since 1977, I don't really understand formations or tactics so if this is a stupid idea, just tell me without the insults 😀

So, I'm not sure that Max and Dimitris/Brandon have been very effective as wingbacks this season-whether that's because of the opposition we've faced, the lack of options when they do get forward, lack of confidence, instructions from DF, or what, I don't know.

We have spent a fair bit on 2 players who can play as wingers-Milot Rashica and Christos Tzolis. 

Is it worth trying to play with wingers, rather than with wingbacks? I appreciate that it would probably take too long for us to develop this as our main strategy but perhaps in a game like we saw on Saturday, where we had stifled Brighton's attacking threat, it is something to try in the last 30 minutes? Fresh legs and giving the defenders something else to think of, rather than what seem to be like for like substitutions?

I know we don't have much of an aerial threat with our attackers but you don't always have to sling in high crosses-fast and low ones for forwards with good movement can be effective-that's what happened with Maupay's late chance on Saturday.

It might also mean that with the wingbacks playing as right/left backs instead we could possibly revert to 4 at the back as there would be a bit more defensive cover?

Anyway, that's it, I'm just going to look for my tin hat 🤣

It is interesting how tactics evolve. Time was defenders were coached to "show players the line" and force them wide. Then it became "show them inside" and force them into traffic which in turn led to inverted wingers coached to come inside. Most modern clubs play narrow these days to avoid being overloaded in central areas with width being a bit of a luxuary. That is why wingbacks are used to bring width that would overwise be lacking.

[Petriix 2,834]

2 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Firstly, a disclaimer-despite watching football fairly regularly since 1977, I don't really understand formations or tactics so if this is a stupid idea, just tell me without the insults 😀

So, I'm not sure that Max and Dimitris/Brandon have been very effective as wingbacks this season-whether that's because of the opposition we've faced, the lack of options when they do get forward, lack of confidence, instructions from DF, or what, I don't know.

We have spent a fair bit on 2 players who can play as wingers-Milot Rashica and Christos Tzolis. 

Is it worth trying to play with wingers, rather than with wingbacks? I appreciate that it would probably take too long for us to develop this as our main strategy but perhaps in a game like we saw on Saturday, where we had stifled Brighton's attacking threat, it is something to try in the last 30 minutes? Fresh legs and giving the defenders something else to think of, rather than what seem to be like for like substitutions?

I know we don't have much of an aerial threat with our attackers but you don't always have to sling in high crosses-fast and low ones for forwards with good movement can be effective-that's what happened with Maupay's late chance on Saturday.

It might also mean that with the wingbacks playing as right/left backs instead we could possibly revert to 4 at the back as there would be a bit more defensive cover?

Anyway, that's it, I'm just going to look for my tin hat 🤣

I might have made one or two posts on here recently basically making the same point. Rather than playing 5 defenders, 3 central midfielders and 2 attackers, I'd like to see us play a reasonably balanced 4 defenders, 2 central midfielders and 3 attacking midfielders behind 1 striker. The wide attacking midfielders would essentially have the same job that the wingbacks currently have, but could afford to be a little higher because they'd have actual fullbacks behind them. They'd undoubtedly cause teams a few more problems.

To do this, you'd need to remove one of the central defenders and one of the central midfielders. Then you'd drop the second striker back into the attacking midfield line as a number 10. Not a crazy idea at all.