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Thingy

DF and Tzolis

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My concern is that DF is trying to match the opposition playing them at their own game. We are not as good at doing it.

I think if Tzolis had started instead of Sargent against Brighton and Burnley then we would would have had a great chance to win those matches. Pukki needs service, someone running off the ball to help create space for him. Tzolis great at that and can score goals.

 

 

 

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I must say if all the players not getting game time Tzolis is the one that worries/baffles me most. This is a guy playing regularly international snd Europa league football before he joined us. He makes stuff happen when he plays. It worries me he’s getting shut out and I can’t see him being too up for championship football either. We need to get him onto the pitch more often. 

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Tzolis has barely kicked a ball in anger since the penalty incident. Hope we're not looking at another Oliveira, Leitner etc situation. 

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Must admit when Brighton brought Lamptey on I would have been tempted to bring on Tzolis to peg him back a bit.

Seems another player that has become out of favour.

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Looks strange, especially with his mate Giannoulis at the moment appearing to be the first choice left back. Still 30 games to go though so early days.

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Sargent looks more ready to fight which serves the purpose at the moment. Pressing and winning knockons, Tzolis still a little wet behind the ears from limited viewing vs Liverpool. 

Edited by Bluefloyd
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20 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Must admit when Brighton brought Lamptey on I would have been tempted to bring on Tzolis to peg him back a bit.

Seems another player that has become out of favour.

You do know that we've got a squad of 25 players and that only 11 of them can be on the pitch at once? 

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10 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Must admit when Brighton brought Lamptey on I would have been tempted to bring on Tzolis to peg him back a bit.

Seems another player that has become out of favour.

Maybe, but Lamptey was pretty crap when he came on (perhaps rusty from his time out) - the main thing he did was commit fouls.

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26 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Maybe, but Lamptey was pretty crap when he came on (perhaps rusty from his time out) - the main thing he did was commit fouls.

He did leap 15ft into the air! 

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43 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Must admit when Brighton brought Lamptey on I would have been tempted to bring on Tzolis to peg him back a bit.

Seems another player that has become out of favour.

It takes time to bed in some new players. Emi didn’t feature immediately, took about 6 games for his first start. Also that was in the championship. We’re now trying to introduce a young, raw attacking midfielder into a PL team that has been haemorrhaging goals. Sort defence first, then bring in the creativity at the other end.

I don’t think there’s anything to panic about with Tzolis.

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1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

Patience is the key. Farke is excellent at getting young players focussed and up and running. Patience - and we'll see something special emerge.

We're 8 games into a 38 game season  and have only 2 points.

Patience is a luxury we cannot afford.

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42 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

He's a winger. We don't play wingers anymore.

 

It's all very bizzare

Thats like saying Sterling is just a winger. Tzolis looks to have more options than that.

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5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Patience is the key. Farke is excellent at getting young players focussed and up and running. Patience - and we'll see something special emerge.

Your loyalty is great but you assume that DF is on the top of his game and can do it every time.

I could argue that Tzolis may well get peed off and want to move in January.

We were told that the lad is a gem. So why no show?

Never mind celebrating two 0-0 draws. Bemoan the fact that we have scored TWO goals only. Is that lost on everyone? That is nothing more than woeful.

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13 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

It takes time to bed in some new players. Emi didn’t feature immediately, took about 6 games for his first start. Also that was in the championship. We’re now trying to introduce a young, raw attacking midfielder into a PL team that has been haemorrhaging goals. Sort defence first, then bring in the creativity at the other end.

I don’t think there’s anything to panic about with Tzolis.

Emi was playing in the Spanish 3rd or 4th division, not for a top 6 Greek side snd his international team. Frankly it’s b****cks to suggest Tzolis needs a lot of time to bed in. Maybe a bit but how’s he going to get it if he can never get on the pitch?

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8 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

It takes time to bed in some new players. Emi didn’t feature immediately, took about 6 games for his first start. Also that was in the championship. We’re now trying to introduce a young, raw attacking midfielder into a PL team that has been haemorrhaging goals. Sort defence first, then bring in the creativity at the other end.

I don’t think there’s anything to panic about with Tzolis.

This is it. DF warned early on that it would take time to bed in such a young player. The comparison with Buendia is apt and the time for Tzolis will come.

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I do not understand what bedding in is. Talent over tactics when you are as poor as us at the moment.

The boy has played enough football to know what to do. I am bemused with all the spouting about bedding in. Scaring the carp out of defenders suits me over whether he covers for his fullback like the flipcharts say he should.

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3 minutes ago, Yelloow Since 72 said:

This is it. DF warned early on that it would take time to bed in such a young player. The comparison with Buendia is apt and the time for Tzolis will come.

We should not have signed him then. If all these players (Sargent included) “need time” then they were not the right signings this summer as we need players who are ready now. 

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24 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Emi was playing in the Spanish 3rd or 4th division, not for a top 6 Greek side snd his international team. Frankly it’s b****cks to suggest Tzolis needs a lot of time to bed in. Maybe a bit but how’s he going to get it if he can never get on the pitch?

How much of Tzolis have you seen play? I saw him against a second string Bournemouth and his other cameos plus some highlight videos.

I've not seen more than that so I don't feel I'm qualified to suggest he should be getting on the pitch more.

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37 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I do not understand what bedding in is. Talent over tactics when you are as poor as us at the moment.

The boy has played enough football to know what to do. I am bemused with all the spouting about bedding in. Scaring the carp out of defenders suits me over whether he covers for his fullback like the flipcharts say he should.

Totally Agree if the Boy can skin a Fullback and get the ball in the danger area that is what we need for Pukki

i am worried all this bedding in we will be 10 points away from safety before they start playing 

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1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

You do know that we've got a squad of 25 players and that only 11 of them can be on the pitch at once? 

You realise that in our squad of 25 players, 24 of them cost less than Tzolis to acquire and the other one is Tzolis? 

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51 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

We're 8 games into a 38 game season  and have only 2 points.

Patience is a luxury we cannot afford.

Depends on how much you want to build a side, doesn't it?  Patience may well be a good thing if it means we develop a mean defence and then start to add goals to it, which will mean more points through the season.

Anyhow, Farke has 25 good players, many of them worth around the same or more than Tzolis and we have quality throughout the squad - so he has to force his way in to the team with his performances in training, the same as any other player. 

We had a bad start, but we have stopped the rot - and there will be time for Tzolis and the rest to show us what they can do.  

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30 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Emi was playing in the Spanish 3rd or 4th division, not for a top 6 Greek side snd his international team. Frankly it’s b****cks to suggest Tzolis needs a lot of time to bed in. Maybe a bit but how’s he going to get it if he can never get on the pitch?

I never said a ‘lot’. But can you not see the focus has been getting the back line right? The demand from some fans for immediate success  is just detached from reality. Those first few games we played Rashica, Cantwell in a formation that failed miserably. It can be argued Tzolis could have played in place of one of those for one of those games but the end result would more than likely have been the same due to the massive defensive issues. Since then the focus has been defensive solidity and using our two strikers on the break and with longer balls upfield. Those attacking players won’t be so easy to fit into that system and so haven’t got as much time on the pitch. It’s resulted in two draws and clean sheets.

If our attacking line up continues to solely consist of Pukki and Sargent then yes, questions will need answering. If we had created nothing yesterday that I could almost understand the negativity. But taken in context I can fully understand why we went with the 3 in midfield and Sargent/Pukki up top for the last 2 games.

This is just another example of ‘football manager’ fan opinion. Success is just a few clicks away. Thankfully Farkes in charge and he’s building something in the real world. His record of bringing new players, and young new players at that, through to the first team (not to mention this is the PL rather than the much easier championship) has been pretty exemplary and until there’s an obvious time when Tzolis should have at least been tried, we should all just trust and wait.

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46 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Talent over tactics when you are as poor as us at the moment.

Wow that’s some statement.

Arguably that’s what we did for the first few games. Rashica/Cantwell/Gilmour all played. We know what happened there.

Tactics changed along with personnel and we suddenly have an identity and a defensive solidity, and our first points (which should’ve been more).

Theres a balance to be had and I don’t believe the starting 11 yesterday will remain that way for long. More attacking players will be integrated but it was important to get some solidity into our play first.

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5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Depends on how much you want to build a side, doesn't it?  Patience may well be a good thing if it means we develop a mean defence and then start to add goals to it, which will mean more points through the season.

Anyhow, Farke has 25 good players, many of them worth around the same or more than Tzolis and we have quality throughout the squad - so he has to force his way in to the team with his performances in training, the same as any other player. 

We had a bad start, but we have stopped the rot - and there will be time for Tzolis and the rest to show us what they can do.  

We've stopped shipping goals but the rot is not winning games, which we objectively have not stopped, at all.

I'd be very interested to hear who the "many" are that are worth more than Tzolis in the current market. If he lingers about on the bench for a season that value will drop but right now he is probably one of the most valuable players in our squad. Aarons is ahead of him and arguably Cantwell but I'm not sure who else would attract a higher fee in our squad.

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On the whole fitting him in and the idea that we don't use wingers anymore you should have noticed by now that we don't play set formations in a traditional sense under Farke. The 532 is basically 3 defenders 5 support players and 2 attackers in attack and 8 defenders one support player and one forward when we're defending. Wingers/number 10's and strikers all just basically play a fluid attacking role for Farke. 

The 4231 last year as well was basically 3 defenders, 3 support players and 4 attackers with the ball and 5 defenders one support player and 4 attackers without the ball. The roles aren't really defined as like a 'winger' or 'Central midfielder' anymore for us, we set up in a very fluid manner and so a winger like Tzolis could easy play instead of Sargent or Pukki in this current set up

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I'd back DF as having the right credentials to know the best way to manage a young talent like Tzolis.

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Just now, canarydan23 said:

We've stopped shipping goals but the rot is not winning games, which we objectively have not stopped, at all.

I'd be very interested to hear who the "many" are that are worth more than Tzolis in the current market. If he lingers about on the bench for a season that value will drop but right now he is probably one of the most valuable players in our squad. Aarons is ahead of him and arguably Cantwell but I'm not sure who else would attract a higher fee in our squad.

I said "around the same or more" - so plenty of players hovering around the £8-£10m value I would say.

Aarons/Cantwell/Rashica/Sargent/Dowell

Also - Hanley - captain of Scotland and putting in excellent performances for us

Gibson - cost £8m and whose value is probably more than that, being in a PL team

Omobamidele - young player who is surely destined for a big career, must be worth £10m at least

Giannoulis - £8m and looking very good for it (imo)

Potentially others worth that too, if they rise to the occasion this season.  Idah, if he can find his scoring boots, could really up his value this season. Mumba too, if he gets the chance - he is highly rated too. Of the older players, Pukki and McLean maybe not quite that much, but would either of them walk into a championship team willing to spend £10m on guaranteed class at that level? Quite possibly.

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42 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I said "around the same or more" - so plenty of players hovering around the £8-£10m value I would say.

Aarons/Cantwell/Rashica/Sargent/Dowell

Also - Hanley - captain of Scotland and putting in excellent performances for us

Gibson - cost £8m and whose value is probably more than that, being in a PL team

Omobamidele - young player who is surely destined for a big career, must be worth £10m at least

Giannoulis - £8m and looking very good for it (imo)

Potentially others worth that too, if they rise to the occasion this season.  Idah, if he can find his scoring boots, could really up his value this season. Mumba too, if he gets the chance - he is highly rated too. Of the older players, Pukki and McLean maybe not quite that much, but would either of them walk into a championship team willing to spend £10m on guaranteed class at that level? Quite possibly.

You're trolling, I get it.

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