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East Rider

The slow slow turn

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Having watched (i.e present at most matches) all our games this season thus far, I can assure you all we are very slowly turning this situation around (Watford second half aside) into a better performing, point scoring team.

HOWEVER, this huge gigantic container ship (imagine we are in the Suez) named Norwich City is turning at a very very slow pace and the real question is, are we turning it around quick enough to not get too cut off. Or are we just going to chug along for the next two-three months with the odd inspiring performance, with the hint of better times to come?

That, my fellow canaries supporters is the dilemma for me. 

The answer?.........................Who knows 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, East Rider said:

Having watched (i.e present at most matches) all our games this season thus far, I can assure you all we are very slowly turning this situation around (Watford second half aside) into a better performing, point scoring team.

HOWEVER, this huge gigantic container ship (imagine we are in the Suez) named Norwich City is turning at a very very slow pace and the real question is, are we turning it around quick enough to not get too cut off. Or are we just going to chug along for the next two-three months with the odd inspiring performance, with the hint of better times to come?

That, my fellow canaries supporters is the dilemma for me. 

The answer?.........................Who knows 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the team is turning quicker than Ben Gibson. A sun dial moves quicker.😂

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It seems that we've turned halfway with the last two clean sheets, but will it move on more quickly now? Being underdogs in virtually every game, we need a surprise result to speed up the process. Had we put away one of those chances our situation would look very different, but we didn't, and it doesn't, so who knows indeed.

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I do think we need to see more of Tzolis and Rashica. The latter did look dangerous when he came on with his pace. Pukki's strength is running in on goal one on one. Sargent's strength is his work rate and physicality. Rashica's strength seems to be in his pace and running. As a partnership Id have thought on paper Sargent and Rashica would be the right skills mix. But Pukki is our goalscorer.

Im not sure we should persist with the three in the middle, the roles seem undefined - though they did do well today.

3 CBs I wasnt keen on when we changed to it, but it seems to suit our defenders and we are far less open, the schoolboy defending has gone. Be interesting to see how they do against a top team like Chelsea, seeing as Man City scored with ease and Liverpool didnt struggle to score. 

So happy with the defence, but work to do in making goal scoring a possbility

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No. We're not.

I'm starting to lose a little interest too. I like the way we played since Farke has been here. I find it entertaining and ultimately, that's why I watch. I am not entertained at all by the current setup. I hope it's only temporary to build some confidence.

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4 hours ago, All the Germans said:

No. We're not.

I'm starting to lose a little interest too. I like the way we played since Farke has been here. I find it entertaining and ultimately, that's why I watch. I am not entertained at all by the current setup. I hope it's only temporary to build some confidence.

You must understand that the switch to a more defensive setup was necessary, after conceding so many goals. The style of play and attacking threat had to be put on the back burner in the quest for a point / clean sheet to build on. 

I'm sure Farke will look to address the attacking threat after the Chelsea game, where we have several 'must win' games coming up.

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6 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I do think we need to see more of Tzolis and Rashica. The latter did look dangerous when he came on with his pace. Pukki's strength is running in on goal one on one. Sargent's strength is his work rate and physicality. Rashica's strength seems to be in his pace and running. As a partnership Id have thought on paper Sargent and Rashica would be the right skills mix. But Pukki is our goalscorer.

Im not sure we should persist with the three in the middle, the roles seem undefined - though they did do well today.

3 CBs I wasnt keen on when we changed to it, but it seems to suit our defenders and we are far less open, the schoolboy defending has gone. Be interesting to see how they do against a top team like Chelsea, seeing as Man City scored with ease and Liverpool didnt struggle to score. 

So happy with the defence, but work to do in making goal scoring a possbility

The three centre backs have all played really well in the last couple of games and, in a way, it may be a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

I wouldn't be completely surprised if he stuck with the same formation but changed it around the 60-70 minute mark. Having said that, he has a dire record of making proactive, effective substitutions at this level and it looks like he's preferring to protect a point rather than gamble on all three.

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What worries me a bit is if you look at the chances we created they were largely down to errors by Brighton forced by our press.

There was still very little genuine creativity, we had about 35% possession, the crosses and balls into the box were awful (not helped by having nobody in there) and I therefore just can’t see how we are going to score enough to win games.

the draws have stopped the rot but frankly draws don’t help much in relegation battles in the premier league. Wins are everything and we are almost certainly going to be heading into our 10th game still winless. 

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3 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

You must understand that the switch to a more defensive setup was necessary, after conceding so many goals. The style of play and attacking threat had to be put on the back burner in the quest for a point / clean sheet to build on. 

I'm sure Farke will look to address the attacking threat after the Chelsea game, where we have several 'must win' games coming up.

I get that but I think it’s also lazy. Many of our defensive issues should have been capable of resolution on the training ground with decent coaching or perhaps by just playing with two holding midfielders. Several were in my view caused by the needless switch to 4-3-3.I don’t accept it was necessary to castrate ourselves as an attacking and creative force in the way we’ve done but just packing the defence and midfield with bodies. 

Edited by Jim Smith

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10 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

What worries me a bit is if you look at the chances we created they were largely down to errors by Brighton forced by our press.

There was still very little genuine creativity, we had about 35% possession, the crosses and balls into the box were awful (not helped by having nobody in there) and I therefore just can’t see how we are going to score enough to win games.

the draws have stopped the rot but frankly draws don’t help much in relegation battles in the premier league. Wins are everything and we are almost certainly going to be heading into our 10th game still winless. 

Chances forced by errors caused by our press is a good thing. Especially when you have an ostensibly more defensive formation / combative set of midfielders as with less creativity on the pitch, opposition errors are going to be a more important source of chances. A lot depends on the wing-backs getting up and down with three at the back as they're the players that help give you overloads and spread the play. That should hopefully come with time. On top of that, we never really had a bona-fide # 10 last season - Dowell was closest but even he never grabbed hold of that position where Stiepermann had been at his best the Championship season before last.

The real concern for me was poor attacking set-pieces. Not sure why we consistently can't beat the first man at corners. 

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1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Chances forced by errors caused by our press is a good thing. Especially when you have an ostensibly more defensive formation / combative set of midfielders as with less creativity on the pitch, opposition errors are going to be a more important source of chances. A lot depends on the wing-backs getting up and down with three at the back as they're the players that help give you overloads and spread the play. That should hopefully come with time. On top of that, we never really had a bona-fide # 10 last season - Dowell was closest but even he never grabbed hold of that position where Stiepermann had been at his best the Championship season before last.

The real concern for me was poor attacking set-pieces. Not sure why we consistently can't beat the first man at corners. 

Yes it’s not a bad thing but my point is more that we didn’t create much else and not all teams will give you those chances like Brighton do with this playing out from the back.

Agree about corners and set pieces. If you are going to play as we are currently doing they become key because you are going to create less chances. We had so many free kicks in dangerous positions in that second half and didn’t put in a single decent delivery. 

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2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Yes it’s not a bad thing but my point is more that we didn’t create much else and not all teams will give you those chances like Brighton do with this playing out from the back.

Agree about corners and set pieces. If you are going to play as we are currently doing they become key because you are going to create less chances. We had so many free kicks in dangerous positions in that second half and didn’t put in a single decent delivery. 

Changes the dynamic of the game though if the other team honk it out at the first opportunity as then you'd hope we can beat their press and then progress up the field. Against Brighton, who like to play out from the back but can overplay it a lot and become ponderous, it makes far more sense to jam the midfield and try to tempt them too far forward before breaking. If Sargent had taken that first-half chance Brighton would have had no choice but to start speeding things up, and we have shown signs of looking quite useful on the counter without quite finishing it off.

Considering how Brighton were something of a form team and produced a dominating performance in drawing with Arsenal 0-0 last time out (they did everything but score, particularly in the first half), and how sluggish they looked against us here for long periods then I'd say we're tapping at the door now. If Sargent had buried that open goal opportunity and we'd won 1-0, it would have been the kind of hard-fought 3-pointer that would have been seen as relief.

To some extent we were spoiled in our last two Championship seasons with some of the wonderful stuff served up. Nathan Jones, the Luton manager, did sum it up well when he called us the Man City of the Championship.

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46 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

the draws have stopped the rot but frankly draws don’t help much in relegation battles in the premier league. Wins are everything and we are almost certainly going to be heading into our 10th game still winless. 

Draws entirely do help in a relegation battle. The difference between relegation and survival is turning a few expected losses into actual draws and turning a few expected draws into actual wins.

The problem is, the one's that we have got a draw from were not expected losses.

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4 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

The three centre backs have all played really well in the last couple of games and, in a way, it may be a case of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

I wouldn't be completely surprised if he stuck with the same formation but changed it around the 60-70 minute mark. Having said that, he has a dire record of making proactive, effective substitutions at this level and it looks like he's preferring to protect a point rather than gamble on all three.

Very impressed with Kabak yesterday,, not just in defensive graft but also a few powerful carries.

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

I get that but I think it’s also lazy. Many of our defensive issues should have been capable of resolution on the training ground with decent coaching or perhaps by just playing with two holding midfielders. Several were in my view caused by the needless switch to 4-3-3.I don’t accept it was necessary to castrate ourselves as an attacking and creative force in the way we’ve done but just packing the defence and midfield with bodies. 

A lot of our problems at PL level are due to Daniel Farke's attacking philosophy. The 4-2-3-1 left us exposed to the counter and, with Buendia leaving, it provided an opportunity to switch to 4-3-3 in a bid to be a bit more robust. It didn't work so we shored up the defence with five at the back.

I really think Farke is just weathering the storm - getting a few points on the board, restoring some confidence, letting players settle in and gelling with their team mates. Given a little bit of time, I think he'll be a bit more expansive with both his formations and our approach. 

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1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Chances forced by errors caused by our press is a good thing. Especially when you have an ostensibly more defensive formation / combative set of midfielders as with less creativity on the pitch, opposition errors are going to be a more important source of chances. A lot depends on the wing-backs getting up and down with three at the back as they're the players that help give you overloads and spread the play. That should hopefully come with time. On top of that, we never really had a bona-fide # 10 last season - Dowell was closest but even he never grabbed hold of that position where Stiepermann had been at his best the Championship season before last.

The real concern for me was poor attacking set-pieces. Not sure why we consistently can't beat the first man at corners. 

I agree. I can only think that Farke is telling them to whip in flat corners to the near post, so that one of our players (often McLean) can glance it in.

Many PL goalkeepers (Sanchez was a prime example) are pretty confident collecting anything in the middle of the goal or at the back post. Any other delivery would need to be between the penalty spot and the 18 yard line.

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Obviously i don't know what the plan is exactly. But I'd hope it's to carry on trying to grind out results for now while giving Tzolis and Rashica more frequent chances to try to establish themselves and displace one of Pukki or Sargent because we just don't have enough pace or direct running threat right now to create many chances. Then in Jan sign a proper ball winning defensive midfielder like a younger version of Tettey and allow Normann to play in one of the slightly higher roles where he can provide more of a link between our midfield and attack.

 

I think it would be sensible to eventually start games with Sargent and Tzolis/Rashica up front and then use Pukki later on in games when he's likely to get more clear chances. I know some of you aren't a fan of Sargent, but he's the only option we have to hit a longer ball to so we're not completely suffocated by a teams high press, every chance we created yesterday came through him in some way and we'll need a Rashica or Tzolis to offer some pace so we can break on teams quicker. I'm still a huge fan of Pukki but i think for the good of the team in the medium term his role will have to change a bit. 

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