"A step in the right direction"

[lake district canary 4,830]

A lot of negative posts on here this evening and just wanted to address that with this thread. "Step in the right direction" (as Farke has just said) sums it up for me.  Disappointing to miss those two or three clear chances, but still a point and a chance to build on that in the coming weeks.

OTBC

Edited October 16, 2021 by lake district canary

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

It speaks volumes for the irrationality / overblown nature of some expectations that they think despite a squad overhaul from a promotion and an opening six games where we conceded 16 goals, two 0-0 draws in a row are reason to complain. There are definitely still flaws to be ironed out, but if you're shipping close to three a game, first thing is to tighten up.

[daly 551]

You aren’t Farke’s love child are you

 

[hogesar 10,766]

9 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

It speaks volumes for the irrationality / overblown nature of some expectations that they think despite a squad overhaul from a promotion and an opening six games where we conceded 16 goals, two 0-0 draws in a row are reason to complain. There are definitely still flaws to be ironed out, but if you're shipping close to three a game, first thing is to tighten up.

Last time we came up we couldn't stop conceding 2 goals a game. Always asking too much of our attacking players to score 2 just to draw. After an away clean sheet which any newly promoted team should be happy with, we've remained defensively strong against a better side, and also created guilt edge chances to win the match.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Last time we came up we couldn't stop conceding 2 goals a game. Always asking too much of our attacking players to score 2 just to draw. After an away clean sheet which any newly promoted team should be happy with, we've remained defensively strong against a better side, and also created guilt edge chances to win the match.

Precisely. Often our play off the ball wasn't great, but today Brighton really didn't have that much as we were much more diligent off the ball than we had been, or indeed needed to be, in the earlier days of Farke's reign / in the Championship.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

Its nothing to do with last year or how good Brentford are or how much confidence Sargent has. Its what you see in front of your eyes each game. The old cliche of one game at a time.

And from today we garnered a point. Fair enough. Personally, I thought it was two dropped. We had the better chances yet they gave those chances to us. We created others but so did they. They have only scored eight we had two. So perhaps it wasn't going to be Forest all over again.

But to be honest, if some are happy with today then that is good. Its what an individual gets out of supporting that is the most important. Personally again, I was frustrated today. Brighton are one of the highest in stats for possession. Its their style. I felt we were trying to get the ball forward quicker, certainly more than them, but didn't have the players to achieve that. It isn't in today's three to race up and support.

I think 3-5-2 could help us but I think we have to have one of that three as a support for the front two.

So for me, it wasn't good but I guess it wasn't bad. But lets call it right. Who played well and who didn't.

We need a lot more if we are going to survive.

[Petriix 3,219]

We need around 40 points to survive. That's 10 wins and 10 draws. Which are our most winnable games?

Watford, Burnley, Newcastle, Brentford, Brighton, Southampton, Leeds, Palace. Then get lucky against an out of form Arsenal or Leicester etc.

Our opportunities for winning games are passing us by. 'Norwich 0' is the most likely outcome of this ultra defensive 5-3-2. We need give ourselves a fighting chance.

[Baracouda 47]

30 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

A lot of negative posts on here this evening and just wanted to address that with this thread. "Step in the right direction" (as Farke has just said) sums it up for me.  Disappointing to miss those two or three clear chances, but still a point and a chance to build on that in the coming weeks.

OTBC

Its 'baby steps' building confidence and getting use to a new system, heading into the 5 games post Chelsea

[fredherring 136]

You're evidently not watching Brentford tear chelsea apart right now with positive football, otherwise you'd never have the balls to write such absolute rubbish. 

[yellowrider120 917]

28 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Last time we came up we couldn't stop conceding 2 goals a game. Always asking too much of our attacking players to score 2 just to draw. After an away clean sheet which any newly promoted team should be happy with, we've remained defensively strong against a better side, and also created guilt edge chances to win the match.

If you don't score goals then you don't win football matches. Fact. Zero chance of staying up based on a pitiful TWO points from EIGHT games. Do the maths. At this rate we may JUST scrape to TEN points. Wow!

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,633]

I've criticised Farke, Webber and the players many times this season. We've been embarrassing at times, really depressing to watch and very hard to support. 

However, all I ever want to see from a Norwich side at EPL level, is that they're competitive. And the last two games, they've been just that. 

It still remains frustrating, especially when our aesthetically pleasing style has taken indefinite leave, but I have to agree that the last two results are steps in the right direction. I wouldn't say I'm confident that we maintain that direction though!!

I would still like Farke to utilise the 4-2-3-1 again, or if he persists with the current formation, bring a bit more creativity in the form of Tzolis. For me, bring him in for Sargent. Pukki needs a player like Tzolis (who I believe is the closest thing we have to Emi), who can sit a little deeper in the hole. Pukki has never needed a strike partner to score goals. He needs a clever play who can play him the balls to run onto. 

Another potential change in the current formation, and a bit controversial, Mumba for Aarons. I think Mumba has a better end product and offers more going forward. 

Anyway, nice to get to a Saturday evening without a defeat. Three on the trot!!

[Virtual reality 860]

One goal from open play in eight matches and two points. The only direction we’re going is straight back down. 

[Making Plans 957]

A Step In The Right Direction?

We only have one direction of travel in this league and it's straight back out through the in door.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Making Plans

[Making Plans 957]

8 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

 

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Making Plans

[komakino 282]

Another missed opportunity. 

Reminds me a bit of 04/05 where we showed teams too much respect at home. We cannot score and Farke has to take ultimate responsibility, yet won't be sacked because our hapless majority shareholders put friendship before results. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by komakino

[hogesar 10,766]

26 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

If you don't score goals then you don't win football matches. Fact. Zero chance of staying up based on a pitiful TWO points from EIGHT games. Do the maths. At this rate we may JUST scrape to TEN points. Wow!

Of course we won't stay up if we replicate with 2 points in 8 games.

But we changed shape and now have 2 points from 2 games, as opposed to 0 in 6. Thats a significant improvement regardless how you cut it.

[Danke bitte 1,154]

If you can’t win don’t lose. Brighton are 4th. How is a point deflating against a team who are 4th?! Imagine when we start scoring?! 😁

[holt, who goes there? 9]

We are absolutely goosed!! Teams know that if they score, they win the game as we're completely toothless going forward. Pukki is a yard off the pace and as I've said before I still don't know what Sargent brings to the party. 

I'm undecided as to whether today was a step in the right direction, as it's great that we kept another clean sheet but our lack of goals will ultimately result in us being relegated.

[Making Plans 957]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

Of course we won't stay up if we replicate with 2 points in 8 games.

But we changed shape and now have 2 points from 2 games, as opposed to 0 in 6. Thats a significant improvement regardless how you cut it.

Is it?

First 5 games we played 4 top teams in Liverpool, Man City, Leicester, Arsenal plus Watford who always beat us no matter what league we are in.

Not surprisingly we got 0 points.

Last 3 games we've played Everton, Burnley & Brighton, scored 0 goals and scrapped two boring 0-0 draws.

I wouldn't class that as "significant improvement" by any stretch of the imagination.

OK, we haven't lost for 2 whole games (wow) but surely we should at least be scoring, and winning games, against the likes of Everton, Burnley and Brighton if we have any hope of surviving.

It's a bit like me say my golf is showing significant improvement because I shot 94 today instead of the usual 95+.

Too many people on here clutching at straws that don't exist

[Ian 1,212]

11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Of course we won't stay up if we replicate with 2 points in 8 games.

But we changed shape and now have 2 points from 2 games, as opposed to 0 in 6. Thats a significant improvement regardless how you cut it.

"Farke doesn't have a Plan B!" "Our attacking brand of football doesn't work at this level against superior teams!" "Why aren't we Sheffield United?!"

*Change of tactics to stem the flood of goals conceded*

"Why aren't we playing our attacking brand of football?!" "How can we expect to win games when we can't score?!" "Why aren't we Brentford?!"

I don't know much about football, but I know a couple of things. One is that shipping 40 odd goals in 16 games is not a recipe for taking points, and another is that it takes a lot of time for substantial changes to tactics and personnel to translate into results and performances.

The balance still isn't quite right, but had you offered me two clean sheets after the Watford game I wouldn't have said no that's for sure.

We've got to be a bit more pragmatic at this level, and I do believe we are slowly making progress towards being more competitive against the very best.

[king canary 8,758]

29 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Of course we won't stay up if we replicate with 2 points in 8 games.

But we changed shape and now have 2 points from 2 games, as opposed to 0 in 6. Thats a significant improvement regardless how you cut it.

Yeah its significant improvement from basically the lowest possible floor. Fine but still not something people are going to be thrilled by. 

[Danke bitte 1,154]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah its significant improvement from basically the lowest possible floor. Fine but still not something people are going to be thrilled by. 

I don’t know man, I’m feeling pretty fkng jazzed right now after a clean sheet. But that might be the 5 pints. I’m not so sure. 

[Petriix 3,219]

17 minutes ago, Ian said:

"Farke doesn't have a Plan B!" "Our attacking brand of football doesn't work at this level against superior teams!" "Why aren't we Sheffield United?!"

*Change of tactics to stem the flood of goals conceded*

"Why aren't we playing our attacking brand of football?!" "How can we expect to win games when we can't score?!" "Why aren't we Brentford?!"

I don't know much about football, but I know a couple of things. One is that shipping 40 odd goals in 16 games is not a recipe for taking points, and another is that it takes a lot of time for substantial changes to tactics and personnel to translate into results and performances.

The balance still isn't quite right, but had you offered me two clean sheets after the Watford game I wouldn't have said no that's for sure.

We've got to be a bit more pragmatic at this level, and I do believe we are slowly making progress towards being more competitive against the very best.

You're making out that it's the same people making these contradictory arguments. It's not.

We'd already found a near perfect balance between attack and defence with 4 defenders, 2 solid defensive midfielders and 4 attacking minded players.

For some unfathomable reason we abandoned the successful system over the summer and went with a flawed 4-3-3. We completely nullified the attack by removing the essential number 10. We also nullified the defence by removing the solid double pivot.

Now we've packed the defence to compensate for the shambolic midfield. Behold, we've stopped conceding. But we're playing with only two attacking players instead of the four. It's hardly surprising that we're not finding the net.

We need to go back to the successful system in these winnable games. Fair enough to park the bus against Man City or Chelsea. But this is Burnley and Brighton. If we can't beat these, who are we going to beat?

[sgncfc 1,330]

1 hour ago, fredherring said:

You're evidently not watching Brentford tear chelsea apart right now with positive football, otherwise you'd never have the balls to write such absolute rubbish. 

Yeah, they tore them apart to lose 1-0. We drew. I make that a more successful outcome.

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

We need around 40 points to survive. That's 10 wins and 10 draws. Which are our most winnable games?

Watford, Burnley, Newcastle, Brentford, Brighton, Southampton, Leeds, Palace. Then get lucky against an out of form Arsenal or Leicester etc.

Our opportunities for winning games are passing us by. 'Norwich 0' is the most likely outcome of this ultra defensive 5-3-2. We need give ourselves a fighting chance.

Probably be nearer 33-35. In fact, less than that would have worked last season.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,620]

18 minutes ago, Petriix said:

You're making out that it's the same people making these contradictory arguments. It's not.

We'd already found a near perfect balance between attack and defence with 4 defenders, 2 solid defensive midfielders and 4 attacking minded players.

For some unfathomable reason we abandoned the successful system over the summer and went with a flawed 4-3-3. We completely nullified the attack by removing the essential number 10. We also nullified the defence by removing the solid double pivot.

Now we've packed the defence to compensate for the shambolic midfield. Behold, we've stopped conceding. But we're playing with only two attacking players instead of the four. It's hardly surprising that we're not finding the net.

We need to go back to the successful system in these winnable games. Fair enough to park the bus against Man City or Chelsea. But this is Burnley and Brighton. If we can't beat these, who are we going to beat?

4-2-3-1 has been successful for us in the Championship, but let's not forget that we stuck with it last time round in the Premier League for the full season and it most certainly was not successful. We shipped too many goals and in the second half of the season we were utterly toothless. 

[Petriix 3,219]

16 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

4-2-3-1 has been successful for us in the Championship, but let's not forget that we stuck with it last time round in the Premier League for the full season and it most certainly was not successful. We shipped too many goals and in the second half of the season we were utterly toothless. 

For the 8000th time: we adapted the system last season with two solid CDMs in a double pivot and brought the number 10 deeper. That was a significant change from how we were playing the year before. We had addressed the defensive deficiencies and had struck a good balance between attack and defence.

No one is asking for all out attack, just a pragmatic balance where we give ourselves a fighting chance. I'm as unhappy about abandoning the defensive midfield setup as I am about the changes in attack. 3 in midfield really doesn't work for us. 

[Yelloow Since 72 56]

2 hours ago, fredherring said:

You're evidently not watching Brentford tear chelsea apart right now with positive football, otherwise you'd never have the balls to write such absolute rubbish. 

Brentford threw everything at Chelsea near the end but they still lost - nul points. Let's just hope Chelsea play like that next week.

[Upo 91]

Clean sheet against #4 club. You bet it's a step in the right direction.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,202]

Cant be arsed to duplicate my posts on other threads, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. Defence was very good today and a much better performance from Lees-Melou. Build from the back. We need to work out now how to score goals without impacting on the defensive solidity