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Hardhouse44

Well that was cack

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1 minute ago, Hardhouse44 said:

So you want to win the game because you’re at home and desperate for the points. You take of a defensive minded player and bring on another defensive minded player who is absolutely out of his depth at this level. That’s not trying to win the game. Sometime you need to change your approach to change the out come!

Oh my god. Normanns position as a player was vital to the balance of the team and the game. He would’ve played the full 90 if at all possible. That he couldn’t does not mean just chuck another attacking player on. Had we done so we probably would’ve lost (and nearly did anyway when Rupp lost the ball). We needed that position still on the pitch. I would’ve gone with Gilmour but maybe he wasn’t as fit or ready as Rupp so it was a sensible change. 

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5 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

So you want to win the game because you’re at home and desperate for the points. You take of a defensive minded player and bring on another defensive minded player who is absolutely out of his depth at this level. That’s not trying to win the game. Sometime you need to change your approach to change the out come!

And sometimes you don’t. Normann had to go off, he was done. Leaving the back line exposed that late in the game would’ve been suicidal. We seem to have learned from our mistakes. 

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Very encouraging performance, we appear to have abandoned needlessly risky tippy tippy at the back and are starting to look quite a difficult and organised side to break down now. Burnley was a step in the right direction, and it was a further improvement today against a better side, I was feeling convinced we’d score during the second half and am quite surprised we didn’t all things considered, but it will come. Normann and Kabak have robustly strengthened our first 11, have been very impressed by them. 

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9 minutes ago, Ian said:

You mean like Farke changing his tried and tested system over the last two games?

100% you would be the exact character who would be bleating if Farke made attacking changes and we lost 1-0

You’ve basically nailed it in one, Ian

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1 minute ago, Alex Moss said:

Very encouraging performance, we appear to have abandoned needlessly risky tippy tippy at the back and are starting to look quite a difficult and organised side to break down now. Burnley was a step in the right direction, and it was a further improvement today against a better side, I was feeling convinced we’d score during the second half and am quite surprised we didn’t all things considered, but it will come. Normann and Kabak have robustly strengthened our first 11, have been very impressed by them. 

You mean the two loan players? Its not something I'm happy with.

We paid out a lot of money for two defenders who we had on loan last season and I'm not convinced they are good enough. In fact we brought in another loanee to replace one of them. We had Skipp, producing a great system that is no longer valid without him.

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29 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

"I’d rather lose and feel we went for it"

I wouldn't and that mentality completely baffles me. 18/19 wasn't fun was it? I'd rather see us fight and compete than meekly let the opposition play through us, constantly give away soft goals, lose every midfield battle, lose every header, get bullied and spanked off the pitch by trying to play insane, idealistic football with a team of small, slow players constantly giving the ball away with daft, lackadaisical flicks and an unnecessary amount of short sideways passes. 

 

Against the dross in the Championship it works fine, at the top level it completely falls apart at every level with the quality of player we can afford and that's not an opinion

This is just nonsense. 

We've never tried the system we played last season. Brentford and Watford haven't abandoned their style. You're making a completely unevidenced claim based on speculation.

Here's the facts: the various formations and team selections we've tried this season have yielded exactly two goals and two points. The 5-3-2 has yielded zero goals and two 0-0 draws against two of the weaker teams in the league.

We've won every game when we've started with a number 10. We've won every time we've played 4-2-3-1. That's only zero because we haven't actually tried it once.

Given that we spent 4 seasons working on it, refining it, adapting it to be more suited to the Premier League, it's baffling that we've abandoned it without even giving it a look.

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4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

You mean the two loan players? Its not something I'm happy with.

We paid out a lot of money for two defenders who we had on loan last season and I'm not convinced they are good enough. In fact we brought in another loanee to replace one of them. We had Skipp, producing a great system that is no longer valid without him.

Yep, 2 loans that are on loans to buy as things stand, I’m very happy with them. Hanley’s completed his pre season now by playing league games, and both himself and Gibson are responsible for their part in 2 clean sheets now so no complaints from me 👍

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Played quite well today. Defended well, created the better chances and another day its an incredibly professional,  Premier League quality 2-0 win against a team whos had a really good start to the season sitting in sixth. 

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If Sargent had have scored either of his golden chances (especially THAT one), we'd be sat here saying what a great performance it was. Fine margins and all that jazz but definitely a step in the right direction for me, much more intent today at times

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2 minutes ago, AJ said:

If Sargent had have scored either of his golden chances (especially THAT one), we'd be sat here saying what a great performance it was. Fine margins and all that jazz but definitely a step in the right direction for me, much more intent today at times

And if Maupay had scored late on etc. What would we have been saying?

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10 minutes ago, Petriix said:

This is just nonsense. 

We've never tried the system we played last season. Brentford and Watford haven't abandoned their style. You're making a completely unevidenced claim based on speculation.

Here's the facts: the various formations and team selections we've tried this season have yielded exactly two goals and two points. The 5-3-2 has yielded zero goals and two 0-0 draws against two of the weaker teams in the league.

We've won every game when we've started with a number 10. We've won every time we've played 4-2-3-1. That's only zero because we haven't actually tried it once.

Given that we spent 4 seasons working on it, refining it, adapting it to be more suited to the Premier League, it's baffling that we've abandoned it without even giving it a look.

That's essentially because we lost the main two players who made it tick in Buendia and Skipp. Brentford and Watford haven't changed their style as they haven't lost their best players, so that point is a moot one.

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4 minutes ago, AJ said:

If Sargent had have scored either of his golden chances (especially THAT one), we'd be sat here saying what a great performance it was. Fine margins and all that jazz but definitely a step in the right direction for me, much more intent today at times

 

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Played quite well today. Defended well, created the better chances and another day its an incredibly professional,  Premier League quality 2-0 win against a team whos had a really good start to the season sitting in sixth. 

Spot on lads 👍

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1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

And if Maupay had scored late on etc. What would we have been saying?

The point is we had more of those 'had we scored' chances which is why the players are gutted not to win today, after also being defensively solid.

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21 minutes ago, Ian said:

You mean like Farke changing his tried and tested system over the last two games?

100% you would be the exact character who would be bleating if Farke made attacking changes and we lost 1-0

Farke hasn't played his 'tried and tested system' even once this season. The 4-3-3 was a massive tactical change which absolutely backfired. He abandoned the 4-2-3-1 before we kicked a ball.

The defensive solidity of the double pivot affords the ability to play more attacking, creative players. 3 in midfield with more diverse roles is asking for trouble. It is beyond the skillset of McLean, PLM and Gilmour to cover that much ground.

Instead of fixing the midfield, we've just added an extra central defender to bail them out. We're now two attackers light. 6 defensive players, two midfielders and two attackers is way out of balance.

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53 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

"I’d rather lose and feel we went for it"

I wouldn't and that mentality completely baffles me. 18/19 wasn't fun was it? I'd rather see us fight and compete than meekly let the opposition play through us, constantly give away soft goals, lose every midfield battle, lose every header, get bullied and spanked off the pitch by trying to play insane, idealistic football with a team of small, slow players constantly giving the ball away with daft, lackadaisical flicks and an unnecessary amount of short sideways passes. 

 

Against the dross in the Championship it works fine, at the top level it completely falls apart at every level with the quality of player we can afford and that's not an opinion

It was fun in the final 10 minutes of each game.

 

Unless you’re meaning 19/20? In which case you’re right. Season was rather awful 

Edited by TESCO

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7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

And if Maupay had scored late on etc. What would we have been saying?

Probably "well that was cack"

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2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

That's essentially because we lost the main two players who made it tick in Buendia and Skipp. Brentford and Watford haven't changed their style as they haven't lost their best players, so that point is a moot one.

You could only reasonably argue that if we'd actually tried to play the same system without them and failed. We haven't so it's purely speculation.

Imagine for a second that we'd tried to play Skipp and Buendia as part of a 3 man midfield. Do you think results would have been any different?

It's obvious to me that it's the inexplicable change in formation which is responsible for our awful start to the season. If we'd come out playing our natural game we'd still have been spanked by Liverpool and Man City, but you can guarantee we'd have picked up more than two points and two goals.

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18 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Yep, 2 loans that are on loans to buy as things stand, I’m very happy with them. Hanley’s completed his pre season now by playing league games, and both himself and Gibson are responsible for their part in 2 clean sheets now so no complaints from me 👍

Nordman Will onely sign if we stay in this leage. If we go down he Will onely be a expensive Lone that have mede Sørensen lose all confidence in him self

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Just now, Petriix said:

You could only reasonably argue that if we'd actually tried to play the same system without them and failed. We haven't so it's purely speculation.

Imagine for a second that we'd tried to play Skipp and Buendia as part of a 3 man midfield. Do you think results would have been any different?

It's obvious to me that it's the inexplicable change in formation which is responsible for our awful start to the season. If we'd come out playing our natural game we'd still have been spanked by Liverpool and Man City, but you can guarantee we'd have picked up more than two points and two goals.

You don't think Farke's already looked at it with the players he has? There's far more to it than the change in formation - we've had a squad rebuild whilst being promoted, which is a highly unusual state of affairs. Trying to simplify that down to "a change in formation" when he's bought new players in to replace the departed Buendia and Skipp (who were never going to be replaced on our budget) is looking for simple answers to complex problems.

Not to mention that the last four performances haven't been too bad. Two individual brainfarts (Kabak and McLean) against Everton cost us a point in a game we battled quite well in. A missed handball in the build-up did for us away to Arsenal. We did well against Burnley to get a clean sheet as they're usually a bogey side for us and today we made a Brighton side who had played some very good football already this season look quite ponderous.

The tendency is clearly upwards, but slowly. Initially we were far too lightweight in the middle, so we couldn't create much and worse still, we couldn't defend either. 16 goals conceded in six games tells a tale. Two clean sheets since then is a start. No more. But a start.

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15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The point is we had more of those 'had we scored' chances which is why the players are gutted not to win today, after also being defensively solid.

Better not solid. Brighton created chances in the first half.

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1 hour ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Our football is not good enough for this league. We will go down rock bottom. And it’s boring and predictable to watch

A bit like your posts then?

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Better not solid. Brighton created chances in the first half.

Not many though. I recall Krul making a great stop when a shot came through a crowd of players but otherwise he's nothing to do.

Brighton were pretty toothless and we deserve credit for that.

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1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

Not many though. I recall Krul making a great stop when a shot came through a crowd of players but otherwise he's nothing to do.

Brighton were pretty toothless and we deserve credit for that.

Credit? To Norwich?

yeh I remember those days…

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We did a great job of restricting Brighton to just two good chances. Maupay fell over (was there a little bit of contact?) after rounding Krul when it looked like he could just tap it in, then missed a great chance at the end.

But we conceded 65% of the possession and played a long-ball game for the majority. We nearly got lucky but it's hardly a brilliant tactical masterclass. It's negative and it got what it deserved: a goalless draw.

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45 minutes ago, Petriix said:

This is just nonsense. 

We've never tried the system we played last season. Brentford and Watford haven't abandoned their style. You're making a completely unevidenced claim based on speculation.

Here's the facts: the various formations and team selections we've tried this season have yielded exactly two goals and two points. The 5-3-2 has yielded zero goals and two 0-0 draws against two of the weaker teams in the league.

We've won every game when we've started with a number 10. We've won every time we've played 4-2-3-1. That's only zero because we haven't actually tried it once.

Given that we spent 4 seasons working on it, refining it, adapting it to be more suited to the Premier League, it's baffling that we've abandoned it without even giving it a look.

Brentford and Watford didn't get promoted and base their style of play on slow possession based football though. Watford play the type of defensive, fast counter attacking style that works at this level, Brentford are more adventurous but still defend in numbers when they need to and break forward quickly. Both these teams can do this because they have attributes that we don't. They are much faster, athletic teams with players who are good on the break. They have players who can take a man on to beat a press and they have really pacy dangerous forward options who can create chances from nothing. We don't. (Maybe Rashica and Tzolis will come to the fore here hopefully, but they're clearly not settled yet)

We got promoted by playing a passing game, our build up was slow and patient and through Buendia and his link up with Pukki being a bit of a cheat code at that level just blew inferior teams away. That style of play doesn't transfer well to a team that finds itself in a better league where they suddenly have inferior players to the opposition as we saw I'm 19/20 (thank you @TESCO ) we also don't have Buendia anymore or Skipp who were both key to how we played that formation. I don't think it will work based on the evidence I've seen In our last attempt at this level. We had to change our approach this year and we have to accept that we can't impose our style of play on the opposition because like it or not we're not as good as they are.

Edited by Christoph Stiepermann

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Simply lacked the quality to win the game. That’s opportunities against Leicester, Watford and Brighton squandered. Two goals in eight games. 36% possession at home. Only proper investment will yield PL survival. 

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1 hour ago, Fiery Zac said:

The OP is what’s boring, not the match today.

Thankfully you have no say in what happens at the club or on the pitch.

Superb. simples

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