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Petriix

Where are the goals supposed to come from?

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I genuinely have no idea how this lineup is supposed to work. How are we going to carry any attacking threat?

This is the least creative Norwich team I've ever seen. Reassure me. Tell me what the actual plan is. Where are the goals supposed to be coming from?

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Haven't you read all the replies to all your previous negative comments about it on other threads?  Plenty of people have explained how this can effective in an attacking way.  Just go with it!

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It just doesn't make any sense. Pukki needs to be played in and bar Normann pinging something from deep there is no service. There was an interesting article in the Guardian around Newcastle and the need to have a philosophy. We had one, purchased players to fit it and now have dropped it. We have 4-5 attacking players that just don't get a look in using this system. We don't really look any stronger defensively (let's face it Burnley were pretty dire themselves) and have zero cutting edge. Hopefully of course they'll prove us all wrong and stick 3 or 4 past Brighton but there's probably more chance of the Binners winning league one than that happening at the moment!

Edited by Canario
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Ok, the plan is starting to emerge: hoof it up there then hunt for scraps. It's actually sort of working. It's not pretty though.

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I'm not wrong, am I?

35% of possession 

3 shots on target 

That would be ok against one of the big clubs. A decent away performance. Keep it tight and hope for something on the break. 

But we didn't look like winning. Our only real chance came from a mistake. Plenty of endeavour but no real intent.

I'll reiterate: in this system, how are we going to score goals?

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2 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I'm not wrong, am I?

35% of possession 

3 shots on target 

That would be ok against one of the big clubs. A decent away performance. Keep it tight and hope for something on the break. 

But we didn't look like winning. Our only real chance came from a mistake. Plenty of endeavour but no real intent.

I'll reiterate: in this system, how are we going to score goals?

I would suggest if Sargent hadn't besh@t himself twice it could have been a natty 2-0 victory.

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Haven't watched today's game, so responding to this more in theory. I guess the idea is to stop the rot and become more expansive either later in games or as the players gain confidence. 

Tactically I guess the way you do it is either to get Gilmour in the midfield three to get us moving up the pitch more smartly, or going to a 3-4-3 and playing two of Tzolis, Rashica, Cantwell, Dowell and Sargent behind Pukki. 

I agree that this lineup is primarily there to try and keep a clean sheet. We need to find a way to pose more of a threat. But I'd also say that four at the back either leaves us way too open or prevents our full backs getting forward. So I think we need to stick with the back three and wing backs. Question is whether we can build a more attacking threat on top of that.

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4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The system is working a lot better than the 4-3-3 we were using at the start of the season. It has fixed the defensive issues and we're still creating a few chances each game; certainly no fewer than we did with 4-3-3.

Yes, the 4-3-3 was awful. The 5-3-2 is defensively solid. That's a good start. But where on earth are we going to find the goals?

All our attacking threat is on the bench. It's the most negative system I've ever seen Norwich play.

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11 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I would suggest if Sargent hadn't besh@t himself twice it could have been a natty 2-0 victory.

Yes it could have been. And had Maupay buried that sitter at the end we’d have paid a bigger price for our wastefulness. The fact remains that we have found the net twice in eight games. That only leads one way which is relegation with a whimper 

Edited by Virtual reality
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I really don’t understand the negativity. Can some really not see what Farke is doing, and has been doing for the last year or so?

Last season in the championship was a definite target on being better defensively. We played to our strengths with the formation and bossed the league. This season is a continuation of trying to be tough to beat. The 4-3-3 was to suit the midfielders we had (and which we quickly realised wasn’t enough/or we were just being patient and waiting for our man) and now, to stop the rot, the system has changed and we’ve stopped the sloppy goals that were all too regular in the first games. Farke can’t win - he doesn’t change it and he’s naive, he changes it and we should’ve stuck to ‘our’ formation.
 

Today was far from perfect BUT there’s clear improvement. Chances were made, we grew in confidence and were playing some good stuff. Had Sargent scored one of his chances we’d be talking of a really good overall performance.

So I’m not ecstatic but satisfied because I can see what’s being tried. We were the laughing stock of the league and sooo easy to play against. That some fans expect us to just be able to flip that on it’s head and be defensively solid and score goals, is baffling. It will take a bit of time but the goals will come. They should have today (which is a big improvement on the previous game) but that they didn’t and we didn’t lose is still a massive improvement.

OTBC

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2 hours ago, Petriix said:

I genuinely have no idea how this lineup is supposed to work. How are we going to carry any attacking threat?

This is the least creative Norwich team I've ever seen. Reassure me. Tell me what the actual plan is. Where are the goals supposed to be coming from?

You are spot on...

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We have basically 2 options if we want to make a good go of surviving in this league. Either the owners seek out external investment so we can afford a higher caliber of player to be able to play the style of football that you and many others want to see us attempt at this level.

Or we go about it pragmatically, try to avoid conceding goals, get stuck into the opposition and hope we can nick goals. I think the approach we've taken in the last few games is spot on, what we need now (and it's a long shot i'll admit) is either Rashica or Tzolis to suddenly emerge is a dangerous, effective player than can terrorize the opposition defense and create and score goals out of nothing so we have that star player that clubs like Newcastle/Palace have in Saint-Maximin and Zaha. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that either of them have settled yet though so we'll have to be patient, this is where the goals are going to come from but for me that's more out of hope than expectation. If it doesn't happen, well then this season is a write off and we'll have to start again next year.

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2 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

I really don’t understand the negativity. Can some really not see what Farke is doing, and has been doing for the last year or so?

Last season in the championship was a definite target on being better defensively. We played to our strengths with the formation and bossed the league. This season is a continuation of trying to be tough to beat. The 4-3-3 was to suit the midfielders we had (and which we quickly realised wasn’t enough/or we were just being patient and waiting for our man) and now, to stop the rot, the system has changed and we’ve stopped the sloppy goals that were all too regular in the first games. Farke can’t win - he doesn’t change it and he’s naive, he changes it and we should’ve stuck to ‘our’ formation.
 

Today was far from perfect BUT there’s clear improvement. Chances were made, we grew in confidence and were playing some good stuff. Had Sargent scored one of his chances we’d be talking of a really good overall performance.

So I’m not ecstatic but satisfied because I can see what’s being tried. We were the laughing stock of the league and sooo easy to play against. That some fans expect us to just be able to flip that on it’s head and be defensively solid and score goals, is baffling. It will take a bit of time but the goals will come. They should have today (which is a big improvement on the previous game) but that they didn’t and we didn’t lose is still a massive improvement.

OTBC

Exactly - and chuck in the player turnover, and what you're seeing here with Farke is a manager who clearly has an idea that we needed to get the defence sorted out first after conceding 16 in the first six games. And let's face it, two brainfarts against Everton and a rather unlucky one against Arsenal where a handball was missed in the build-up and that could easily have been four 0-0 draws.

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Listen to Goss on the radio. He's saying exactly what I am. We haven't even tried the 4-2-3-1 once this season. It's madness.

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5 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

I really don’t understand the negativity. Can some really not see what Farke is doing, and has been doing for the last year or so?

Last season in the championship was a definite target on being better defensively. We played to our strengths with the formation and bossed the league. This season is a continuation of trying to be tough to beat. The 4-3-3 was to suit the midfielders we had (and which we quickly realised wasn’t enough/or we were just being patient and waiting for our man) and now, to stop the rot, the system has changed and we’ve stopped the sloppy goals that were all too regular in the first games. Farke can’t win - he doesn’t change it and he’s naive, he changes it and we should’ve stuck to ‘our’ formation.
 

Today was far from perfect BUT there’s clear improvement. Chances were made, we grew in confidence and were playing some good stuff. Had Sargent scored one of his chances we’d be talking of a really good overall performance.

So I’m not ecstatic but satisfied because I can see what’s being tried. We were the laughing stock of the league and sooo easy to play against. That some fans expect us to just be able to flip that on it’s head and be defensively solid and score goals, is baffling. It will take a bit of time but the goals will come. They should have today (which is a big improvement on the previous game) but that they didn’t and we didn’t lose is still a massive improvement.

OTBC

This all day long with a side of scampi

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Meanwhile I see Watford lost again 5-0 at home, Leeds lost again as did Burnley. So on balance a good if not perfect day. 

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5 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

I really don’t understand the negativity. Can some really not see what Farke is doing, and has been doing for the last year or so?

Last season in the championship was a definite target on being better defensively. We played to our strengths with the formation and bossed the league. This season is a continuation of trying to be tough to beat. The 4-3-3 was to suit the midfielders we had (and which we quickly realised wasn’t enough/or we were just being patient and waiting for our man) and now, to stop the rot, the system has changed and we’ve stopped the sloppy goals that were all too regular in the first games. Farke can’t win - he doesn’t change it and he’s naive, he changes it and we should’ve stuck to ‘our’ formation.
 

Today was far from perfect BUT there’s clear improvement. Chances were made, we grew in confidence and were playing some good stuff. Had Sargent scored one of his chances we’d be talking of a really good overall performance.

So I’m not ecstatic but satisfied because I can see what’s being tried. We were the laughing stock of the league and sooo easy to play against. That some fans expect us to just be able to flip that on it’s head and be defensively solid and score goals, is baffling. It will take a bit of time but the goals will come. They should have today (which is a big improvement on the previous game) but that they didn’t and we didn’t lose is still a massive improvement.

OTBC

One goal from open play in 720 minutes of football and you don’t understand the negativity? At the moment we’ll do well to hit double figures for goals scored let alone points. 

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Just now, Petriix said:

Listen to Goss on the radio. He's saying exactly what I am. We haven't even tried the 4-2-3-1 once this season. It's madness.

He’s also saying we had good spells and created. You are not. So not exactly what you are at all.

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The BBC write up suggests that if we can’t score against an under par Brighton we are heading only one way. It’s hard to disagree. We spurn chances when they come and don’t create enough when they don’t. It’s not pretty. 1 goal in open play is beyond poor - it’s embarrassing 

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13 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

One goal from open play in 720 minutes of football and you don’t understand the negativity? At the moment we’ll do well to hit double figures for goals scored let alone points. 

Yes creativity is a problem, and was always going to be having lost Buendia (who didn’t light the league on fire with us two years ago, and still isn’t). So if you know of a player we could realistically have bought to solve that problem whilst not shipping goals like two seasons ago - then you should be working in football.

Player turnover meaning time needed to gel and understand each other is needed has been key. If we were getting worse at both ends of the pitch then I’d be screaming for change along with everyone else. Scoring some goals but still losing (like before) would be treading water and feel pointless. That we’re addressing one problem and succeeding is a massive positive. That we’re doing so while showing some promise at the other end, whilst not perfect, is acceptable and, to me, shows signs of promise for games ahead.

Sargent should have scored at least one. Pukki the same. Other breakaway chances were made and but for some indecision we would have scored goals. Pukki in particular needs a bit of time to play with a strike partner as it was obvious he wasn’t sure whether to pass or shoot at times today.

Call me a happy clapper, I don’t care. There were positives today and I’m satisfied after the awful start to the season (and the dreary performances and lapses in play) that we’ve found a solid base to build on and have an identity for the first time this season. 

Edited by Fiery Zac

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I agree there were positives and real effort from the lads. I just don’t see anything yet that suggests we will be competitive this season. Forget the next win- the next goal feels almost as big now! 

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When you watch how other teams play, when they break they can end up with 5 or possibly 6 players in or around their opponents penalty area. We have Pukki, and one or two trying to find him. I think watching us is the pilot for a new TV series, Can't Score, Won't Score

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I hope Sargent comes good as clearly puts the effort in and had a few nice touches at times today.  However, living out in Mexico I see a fair bit of Concacaf and the fact is he hasnt exactly lit up those games despite a lot of sides basically being lower champs / upper League One level. Concacaf sides used to make Jozy Altidore look like Romelu Lukaku! 

Edited by Canario
Bloody autocorrect!!
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23 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Yes creativity is a problem, and was always going to be having lost Buendia (who didn’t light the league on fire with us two years ago, and still isn’t). So if you know of a player we could realistically have bought to solve that problem whilst not shipping goals like two seasons ago - then you should be working in football.

Player turnover meaning time needed to gel and understand each other is needed has been key. If we were getting worse at both ends of the pitch then I’d be screaming for change along with everyone else. Scoring some goals but still losing (like before) would be treading water and feel pointless. That we’re addressing one problem and succeeding is a massive positive. That we’re doing so while showing some promise at the other end, whilst not perfect, is acceptable and, to me, shows signs of promise for games ahead.

Sargent should have scored at least one. Pukki the same. Other breakaway chances were made and but for some indecision we would have scored goals. Pukki in particular needs a bit of time to play with a strike partner as it was obvious he wasn’t sure whether to pass or shoot at times today.

Call me a happy clapper, I don’t care. There were positives today and I’m satisfied after the awful start to the season (and the dreary performances and lapses in play) that we’ve found a solid base to build on and have an identity for the first time this season. 

As a one off match it was a decent performance that we could have won. Taken as a match in the context of the season and the position we are in then there are not many positives to take. We’ve failed to score yet again and failed to win yet  again. We’re also in danger of being cut adrift from the safety positions and are already 4 points away from Leeds with Chelsea away next

Edited by Virtual reality
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3 minutes ago, First Wazzock said:

When you watch how other teams play, when they break they can end up with 5 or possibly 6 players in or around their opponents penalty area. We have Pukki, and one or two trying to find him. I think watching us is the pilot for a new TV series, Can't Score, Won't Score

I agree with this. The negative I have from today is it was too defensive at times unnecessarily. We were far more often a back 5 than a 3. That balance needs addressing for us to score more goals and win games

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I understand the need to bolster up the defence, if we carry on we will just get pumped by everyone, but the misses today and the misfires up front. That’s what’s worrying. The whole frontline of players needs to go and have a word with themselves.

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5 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

As a one off match it was a decent performance that we could have won. Taken as a match in the context of the season and the position we are in there are not many positives to take. We’ve failed to score yet again and failed to win yet  again. We’re also in danger of being cut adrift from the safety positions and are already 4 points away from Leeds, with Chelsea away next

This pretty much sums it up. We played well today and created several chances, 2 or 3 of which were pretty criminal to have not done better.

But given our position, not converting those chances was utterly devastating for our hopes of staying in this league, even though it's only October.

You simply cannot pass up opportunities to score like we did today at this level and expect anything other than a place in the bottom three.

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