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canarydan23

Merson's Gambling Documentary

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21 minutes ago, Herman said:

Please drink responsibly.Bollox really when you see it on drinks like Jagermeister.🤨

And they do promotions involving equipment to play beer pong with Jager Bombs.

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2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

And they do promotions involving equipment to play beer pong with Jager Bombs.

I don't mean to be prudish it's just the false concern of these companies that get on my wick. Just be honest, it's a drink purely to get people as ****faced as quick as possible.

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I see no reason why gambling and to a lesser extent alcohol isn’t subjected to the same stringent rules as tobacco given the same levels of personal harm addiction can cause.
Allowing betting companies to advertise on TV with the silly slogans to mask brand awareness with concern is just weird. You couldn’t have Rothmans on the TV saying ‘smoking’s GREAT but don’t overDO IT’. 
It’s not up to clubs or society to police this, the ball should sit firmly in the government’s court.

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23 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Some of the brain research on the programme was staggering, in that it seemed to identify a genetic disposition to addiction, and in Merson's case to gambling in particular. His own phrase was 'It's in me'. Others just refer to an "addictive personality" to explain their dependence.

Gambling, like alcohol, tobacco, pornography etc is a drug for some people and just as we don't allow certain advertising or sponsorship for those, we shouldn't allow the gambling companies to prey on the vulnerable or the young.

The attachment to football over the last 30 years, rather than racing which by comparison is now low key, is particularly pernicious.

You can add social media to your list of addictions for some people.  And the techniques that social media companies use to keep you hooked are similar to those used by the gambling industry. 

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23 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I agree up to a point, but it's about how some people have addictive personalities and can't help themselves once they are hooked on something, whether it's shopping, drinking, sex, gambling or anything else.  It is to what extent getting hooked on any particular activity is damaging - and gambling/drinking are two that if you get hooked, are very damaging - hence the extra onus on those who advertise those activities to show responsibility. 

No, you are saying we need to focus on the product as some are more damaging than others. It is the level of addiction and not the product that presents the greatest risk. Clearly, it is possible to enjoy all products safely, perhaps with the exceptions of tobacco and narcotics, so sanctions against certain products is going to be less effective than targeting the addiction. For example, you might restrict the opening hours of pubs but addicts will just drink at home. Restrict online gambling and the addict will go to the betting shop. 

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Personally I think its about education and then providing help when people get addicted. Really would not want more restrictions and being told what I can and can not do.

Nanny state.. not for me.

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5 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Personally I think its about education and then providing help when people get addicted. Really would not want more restrictions and being told what I can and can not do.

Nanny state.. not for me.

Agree with this approach. The campaign against smoking is an example of how it is possible to be successful in reducing addictions. I haven't looked up actual statistics but the number and quantity of smoking has steadily decreased over a generation. But it also demonstrates how difficult and slow it is to bring about change. Compare tobacco addiction to drug addiction which has been a complete failure and usage has gone in the other direction. 

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7 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Personally I think its about education and then providing help when people get addicted. Really would not want more restrictions and being told what I can and can not do.

Nanny state.. not for me.

I understand where you're coming from. I don't think gambling companies should be banned from advertising. I do think they should perhaps be governed or required to deal with obvious addicts better - freeze accounts etc. I know some of that happens now, or at least far more so than it used to.

Merson is an example of someone who's been addicted to multiple negative things, not just gambling. Alcohol has been big.

I'm not sure we should have to adapt everything in this world for the 'lowest common denominator' - that's the wrong wording as I don't mean to offensive. It's undeniable that psychologically there are people who will always be addicted. I don't think Merson's addiction was worsened by some football teams having gambling companies on their shirts, for example.

I will watch the documentary as perhaps it will open my eyes to it more. I do know one bloke who was in a relationship with a family member and stole from her to feed his gambling addiction. I can't say I felt particularly sorry for him, I didn't feel he deserved sympathy. I felt sorry for the family member who was lied and robbed from. 

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14 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

No, you are saying we need to focus on the product as some are more damaging than others. It is the level of addiction and not the product that presents the greatest risk. Clearly, it is possible to enjoy all products safely, perhaps with the exceptions of tobacco and narcotics, so sanctions against certain products is going to be less effective than targeting the addiction. For example, you might restrict the opening hours of pubs but addicts will just drink at home. Restrict online gambling and the addict will go to the betting shop. 

I am saying - or what I meant - was that people need help for their addiction AND there needs to be restrictions to advertising and accessability to gambling. It has to be approached from both sides. 

As far as addictions go, most of us have addictive personalities to one degree or other, obviously some a lot less than others, but we all recognise when you have done something that allows you to escape the moment and enter a different realm of being that it is pleasurable and you want to do it again. For addicted gamblers, the illusion is that the buzz of gambling is what life is all about - it takes you away from reality to another reality - a reality that seems incredibly strong in the moment that is hard to resist wanting to replicate.  It is a feeling of total aliveness, almost like taking a drug - and that is how it needs to be treated - remove the drug from your life, know that you can never take one bet again because it will get you hooked again and realise that it was a false god, a fallacy that is not real.  Yes, the feeling is real at the time, but the actuality of it is not real. 

That is why betting companies need to be regulated and controlled, to help in limiting access, as well as help for addictees themselves. Yes, a drinker will always find alcohol if they really want to, the same as a gambler can find somewhere to bet, but you don't leave your front door unlocked so anyone addicted to stealing can just walk in through your front door - you make it hard for them, so you make it as hard for gamblers to find somehwere to bet as possible.

 

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26 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I understand where you're coming from. I don't think gambling companies should be banned from advertising. I do think they should perhaps be governed or required to deal with obvious addicts better - freeze accounts etc. I know some of that happens now, or at least far more so than it used to.

Merson is an example of someone who's been addicted to multiple negative things, not just gambling. Alcohol has been big.

I'm not sure we should have to adapt everything in this world for the 'lowest common denominator' - that's the wrong wording as I don't mean to offensive. It's undeniable that psychologically there are people who will always be addicted. I don't think Merson's addiction was worsened by some football teams having gambling companies on their shirts, for example.

I will watch the documentary as perhaps it will open my eyes to it more. I do know one bloke who was in a relationship with a family member and stole from her to feed his gambling addiction. I can't say I felt particularly sorry for him, I didn't feel he deserved sympathy. I felt sorry for the family member who was lied and robbed from. 

I think your being naive Hoggy, it may be too late for Merson but how do you think gambling companies pay such vast sponsorship fees to multiple teams?

They want to and do create more addicts. Unlike betting shops it’s a 24 hours 365 days a year online operation. I’d guess lots of new addicts have never stepped foot in Ladbrokes or William Hill. 

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17 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I think your being naive Hoggy, it may be too late for Merson but how do you think gambling companies pay such vast sponsorship fees to multiple teams?

They want to and do create more addicts. Unlike betting shops it’s a 24 hours 365 days a year online operation. I’d guess lots of new addicts have never stepped foot in Ladbrokes or William Hill. 

It's weird, but I still feel very odd setting foot in a betting shop, like it's a taboo place coupled with I wouldn't really know what to do once I get in there.

I have an online William Hill account I started many years ago with £10 which I use very infrequently. I do know though that at any given time of day or night there will be something around the world that I can live bet on or play casino games.

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31 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I am saying - or what I meant - was that people need help for their addiction AND there needs to be restrictions to advertising and accessability to gambling. It has to be approached from both sides. 

As far as addictions go, most of us have addictive personalities to one degree or other, obviously some a lot less than others, but we all recognise when you have done something that allows you to escape the moment and enter a different realm of being that it is pleasurable and you want to do it again. For addicted gamblers, the illusion is that the buzz of gambling is what life is all about - it takes you away from reality to another reality - a reality that seems incredibly strong in the moment that is hard to resist wanting to replicate.  It is a feeling of total aliveness, almost like taking a drug - and that is how it needs to be treated - remove the drug from your life, know that you can never take one bet again because it will get you hooked again and realise that it was a false god, a fallacy that is not real.  Yes, the feeling is real at the time, but the actuality of it is not real. 

That is why betting companies need to be regulated and controlled, to help in limiting access, as well as help for addictees themselves. Yes, a drinker will always find alcohol if they really want to, the same as a gambler can find somewhere to bet, but you don't leave your front door unlocked so anyone addicted to stealing can just walk in through your front door - you make it hard for them, so you make it as hard for gamblers to find somehwere to bet as possible.

 

I understand where you're coming from. I think what I'm saying is that it needs a rapier rather than a shotgun approach as some restrictions on gambling will have proportionately greater effect on casual gamblers as addicted gamblers will be the last ones to let go. I lived for a few years in Thailand where all gambling, even a bet on a game of cards among friends is illegal. The net result is that the country is ringed with huge casinos in neighbouring countries so gamblers go on weekend trips to the border, while illegal casinos exist in every small town and run by crime syndicates. Hence my comment about targeting the product rather than the addiction tends to be less effective. Reasons why anti-smoking campaigns have been successful include education and making the product socially unacceptable. Perhaps there lessons to be learned from this approach

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8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

You can add social media to your list of addictions for some people.  And the techniques that social media companies use to keep you hooked are similar to those used by the gambling industry. 

^^^
Absolutely. This one is extremely underestimated.

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8 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I think your being naive Hoggy, it may be too late for Merson but how do you think gambling companies pay such vast sponsorship fees to multiple teams?

They want to and do create more addicts. Unlike betting shops it’s a 24 hours 365 days a year online operation. I’d guess lots of new addicts have never stepped foot in Ladbrokes or William Hill. 

I understand that. And whilst i have a flutter every other Norwich match or so I've never felt like I had to do so and never bet anything I couldn't afford to lose. 

I'll watch the documentary as I don't doubt I'm naive to something I dont really have any experience of.

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What shocked me about the interview was the fact that Paul Merson was able to kick the booze and the drugs but not the gambling and just how terrified he was and still is about gambling. I have seen bookies in a whole new light and I think it is telling that they are very slow to block an account when it must be clear to them the person gambling has a problem but are extremely quick at blocking you if you take them for a few quid (as has happened to a friend of mine recently). I am a part time, small time gambler and have not gambled for a while, interestingly I have just received a text from Coral informing me that I have won money on Lady Bowthorpe in the past and that the horse is running at Ascot today (I know and I had already decided not to put any money on her).........

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Years ago I heard that betting shops were more likely to be located in poorer areas-seems that it is still the case. I suppose there could be some plausible explanation for this, eg rents being cheaper in poorer areas, or maybe it’s just poor and vulnerable people being targeted?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/23/uks-most-deprived-areas-have-highest-number-of-gambling-outlets-report

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11 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

Years ago I heard that betting shops were more likely to be located in poorer areas-seems that it is still the case. I suppose there could be some plausible explanation for this, eg rents being cheaper in poorer areas, or maybe it’s just poor and vulnerable people being targeted?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/23/uks-most-deprived-areas-have-highest-number-of-gambling-outlets-report

This is probably true. If you are “well off” you are unlikely to chase that dream. It’s why alleyways on council estates are littered with losing scratchcards. It’s selling the dream, seeing the bin man with £10m. The National Lottery exploits the ‘lowest’ in society; those that are already comfortably well off aren’t buying the tickets.

Back in the 90s there was a film called Boyz N The Hood and there is one scene that always stood out. The one where Laurence Fishburne explains to the youngsters that in black neighbourhoods there were gun shops and liquor stores on every corner but you didn’t see that in the affluent parts of LA. Profiteering from the worst off in society while holding them down.

I’ve got no issue with gambling per se, for many it’s just a recreational vice. As with all vices, some get carried away and that buzz they’re chasing becomes all encompassing. But I do think the lottery is an absolute drain on the worst off. Far more damaging than having a 10p lucky 15 every day.

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